Snow Tires?

[SCCO]

I just recently moved to Aspen, CO, and needless to say it snows an awful lot up here during the winters. I have a few questions some of you seasoned veterans might be able to answer for me. First of all, I own a 2004 Pathfinder LE 4x4. I'm looking to find a decent snow tire that wont break the bank and wanted to see if any of you had any recommendations or suggestions for brand, type, size, etc. I've done a little research and have seen where people recommend getting steel rims along with the snow tires to prevent the aluminum wheels from deteriorating from the salt on the roads. Any information you can provided would be greatly appreciated... the more detailed the better. I appreciate any responses.

[Densetsu]

If you think you're going to have your Pathy for a while, I'd suggest finding some used alloy rims. Check local classified sites like Craigslist and kijiji. Alloy rims almost alway look better than steel ones, and they won't rust with all the salt and moisture that comes with winter driving. Either way, though, definitely buy a second set of rims for your winter tires. In Alberta, it's about $100 to mount different tires on rims -- that's $200 a year -- unless you buy your tires from a shop that offers free mounting/unmounting for the life of the tires. Also, tire shops are hopelessly backlogged in late fall and springtime because everyone wants their winter tires swapped on/off. If you buy winter tires now and have them mounted on separate rims now, you can skip the lineups and swap them on and off at your own convenience.

I was somewhat lucky when I was looking on kijiji and found a set of stock QX4 wheels for $600, with enough rubber for at least two more summers. I eventually mounted the winter tires I bought on my stock Pathfinder rims. (Compare $600 for alloy rims and 2 years of rubber, to $320 for new steel rims alone.)

The typical suggestion is that you get narrower tires than the stock size for winter driving. The theory goes that, with narrow tires, you'll cut through the snow and slush easier (same weight, less surface area = more pressure to push the snow away), making it easier for your tires to make contact with the asphalt instead of riding on top of the snow. That said, I still went with stock size, and bought a set of 255/65/R16 Nokian Hakkapeliittas. I'm sure others will chime in with their tire selections, but let me say this: with few exceptions, in snow and slush, the worst winter tire will outperform 95% of all-season tires out there. I've been fairly happy with my Hakkas the last two winters, and they're barely showing any wear.

Studding your tires offers more control and shorter stopping distances on slick ice. On the other hand, your handling on dry roads will suffer, they can be very noisy (especially at highway speeds), and in some states/provinces they're illegal. I'm not too familiar with Aspen (or, for that matter, anywhere in CO), but in Edmonton there's a decent crew for winter road care (plowing/sanding/salting/etc), so studding tires is a bit overkill here. I chose not to stud, because (a) like I said, it'd be overkill here, (b)I like to travel to BC, where studs are illegal, and (b) I do a ton of highway driving.

Finally, make sure to compare prices online and locally. Online prices can be way cheaper (I paid $520USD for my Nokians, which went for $1400CAD locally), but if you buy locally the shop often throws in benefits (such as free mountings). I'm not too familiar with the online shops, but if Google doesn't help you, I'm sure there'll be others on here who can.

[WPGQX4]

Densetsu by going to stock winters you kept your braking the same. Narrower tires do exactly what you say, but braking in the winter is whats going to save your a**. As for tires. I just got back from a Bridgestone seminar yesterday and it was all about winter tires. In my opinion, spen the extra money and get a good set of Mich or Bridgestone winters. They don't need to be studded. Todays technology for ice radials(not snow tires any more) gives you the traction you need in the snow, the braking you need on the ice, and the stability you need on the highway.

If you can find a used set of winters make sure they have more than 4/32nds of tread left. Once you hit that tread hight on a Mich or Bridgestone they are pretty much just as good as all seasons. If you can't get a good set of winters, any winter will be beter than an all season.

[Densetsu]

WPG... what's your opinion on Blizzaks?

I did my research before picking the Nokians, and there were a lot of claims that the softer, winter rubber compound on the Blizzaks is only on the first half of the tread depth. Once it reaches half tread depth, the remaining rubber is an all-season compound.

I've never seen any serious report to back this up, it all seems to be hearsay. Any word on that?

[SCCO]

I've read about the Bilzzaks myself and they seem to get pretty good reviews. I too would like some input on those as well. Thanks.

[WPGQX4]

Densetsu they use two types of winter rubber compound on the new WS-70(usually for cars and vans) and the new DM-V1(usually for trucks and suv's). The outer rubber compound uses there new compound that has microscopic pores that pull up that thin film of water that your tires create when they drive across ice. It also has what they call bitting particles. They are a very tiny particle that dig into the ice as you drive over it. They showed use pictures of ice that the tire had driven across and you could see the scratches the particles made. This new first layer is in the first 55% of the tire then it goes to their winter compound they have been using for years. So to say the tire has an all season compound at 50% is wrong. Now keep in mind the WS-70 is just being released this winter. Any of the older winter will only have the standard winter compound. Now I work for Costco in our tire center and I'm a huge Michelin fan. I would choose a Mich first but Blizzaks are a very close second. Between both Mich and Bridge you have the 2 best winter tires in the world.

Just on a side note, Densetsu you said you went with Noikians. Nokian is branding a tire as an all weather tire. There is no such thing as an all weather tire. With out getting into detail why. You can't have a rubber compound in a winter tire that does everything it needs to for the winter and then do everything it needs to for the summer. That rubber compound doesn't exist.

[SCCO]

WPG, so in your opinion, if i was unable to find a decent used snow/winter tire what would you recommend that wouldn't break the bank? i've seen winter tires run from $99 up to $200 and i'm sure not all winter tires are the same or provide the same traction. Is there something in the $100 - $130 range that would do the job?

[Densetsu]

Densetsu they use two types of winter rubber compound on the new WS-70(usually for cars and vans) and the new DM-V1(usually for trucks and suv's). The outer rubber compound uses there new compound that has microscopic pores that pull up that thin film of water that your tires create when they drive across ice. It also has what they call bitting particles. They are a very tiny particle that dig into the ice as you drive over it. They showed use pictures of ice that the tire had driven across and you could see the scratches the particles made. This new first layer is in the first 55% of the tire then it goes to their winter compound they have been using for years. So to say the tire has an all season compound at 50% is wrong. Now keep in mind the WS-70 is just being released this winter. Any of the older winter will only have the standard winter compound. Now I work for Costco in our tire center and I'm a huge Michelin fan. I would choose a Mich first but Blizzaks are a very close second. Between both Mich and Bridge you have the 2 best winter tires in the world.

So they have an almost sponge-like quality with the micro-pores... how do the pores keep from freezing? I suppose the pressure and friction that initially creates that thin layer of water on the ice could keep the pores from freezing, but of course since I'm asking I obviously don't know. :P

I did just find this from a Google search... http://www.carguideweb.com/articles/6872. The reviewer says that the treads on the original Blizzaks (back in '92) wore out quite quickly, and without the aggressive tread what was left of the tire was no better than an all-season (even though the remaining rubber was still probably was a winter compound). I can see how people can distort things like this (something that may have been close to truth 18 years ago, but is no longer) and make claims that "OMG after a year of wear Blizzaks are left with an all-season compound". Like I said, the vast majority of these claims about Blizzak occurred on forums, blogs, and the like.

Just on a side note, Densetsu you said you went with Noikians. Nokian is branding a tire as an all weather tire. There is no such thing as an all weather tire. With out getting into detail why. You can't have a rubber compound in a winter tire that does everything it needs to for the winter and then do everything it needs to for the summer. That rubber compound doesn't exist.

Nokian does have a few tires that they call "all-weather" -- I know they advertise their WR series as all-weather, year-round tires. But the Hakkapeliitta series is most definitely a winter tire.

I would hope in the future we'd eventually have something of a multi-grade rubber compound, much like multi-grade oil. But yeah, for the time being, tires that remain soft and give traction in the cold weather get eaten alive by the asphalt in warm weather. And tires that can withstand hot asphalt freeze up and offer little traction in the cold.

I'm not a chemist, though; so aside from a vague, general idea, I have no idea about the science behind different rubber compounds.

[WPGQX4]

SCCO it would be hard to find a set of new Mich or Bridge winters in that price range. If there is a Costco near you and you have or know someone with a Costco card, stop in and get a quote on the Blizzak DM-V1. I priced them out today for my QX4(245/70r16) and it was around the $850 mark installed. In the US it can sometimes be alot cheaper than here in Canada.

Densetsu it's the silica and rubber compond that keeps the micro pores from freezing up. Now as for the old Blizzaks. People mistake a tire that has a very aggresive tread pattern as being good in the winter. It will help in deep snow but sipes are what makes a winter tire shine. Sipes if you don't already know are the squiggily lines in the lugs of the tire. A good winter tire that has alot of them will perform better on ice. Combine good sipes and a really good rubber compound and you get an ice radial.

To give you an idea of how cold weather effects rubber compounds. A summer only tire can almost shatter like glass if it gets to cold. It doesn't fall apart but you get a spider web type cracking in the tread face.

[GRNMACHINE]

I have never heard of any negative reviews on the Hakka's. Only problem is their availiblity or lack there of in the States. Very hard to find.

SCCO--to get comparison pricing go to tirerack or discouttiredirect websites. They may also list alternative sizes which may be cheaper (Pathfinder uses 255/65/16 stock as already mentioned).

[D13_R50]

Just throwing it out there, but if he does pick up some new rims, wouldn't they have to be compatable with the TPMS?
I also use Hercules Terra Trac A/T's, mainly since I don't have the space to store them in my garage. Theyre pretty good in the snow too, had no issues with traction when we had a huge blizzard back in december.

[WPGQX4]

The sensors can be put into the new rims. Just need to put a new service pack on whn you do it. The service pack is just a new grommet, nut and valve core. Then a proper reset and good to go.

[Buzzman]

From a seasoned winter driving veteran: Don't drive yourselves crazy trying to over analyze the winter tire thing.
Any decent winter tire will vastly outperform an all season tire. Trust me.
Just get some, anything, is all I'm saying.
I've always run winter tires on my cars for as long as I remember.
I have them on steel rims and change them out in my driveway in fall and spring.
My current winter tires on the Pathfinder are Wintertracs (B.F. Goodrich, I think), which I bought used from a junk yard parts store. Paid $50.00 for them. This will be my 4th winter coming up with those tires.
On my Altima I have the cheapest Canadian Tire stuff they had, on sale, and they also work great.
I doubt very much that you'll notice much of a difference between a $75.00 tire and a $150.00 tire when you're trudging through 6 inches of snow.
You'll definitely notice a difference if you stick with your summer tires though.
Good luck.