Snow and Ice

[lain]

Ok I live in a part of Cali where I never seen snow once. But I have gone to the mountians a couple of hundred times but never drove there myself.

My questions;

1) What will I need in order to drive on snow gracefully...and possibly ice as well. I kinda looking for something that is cheap but dependable, if I have to sacrifice cheap for dependable thats alright.

2) Where is is snow is there always ice?

3) Is there a way to tell the difference between snow and ice (on the road).

4) What will happen while driving on snow or ice, will I suddenly slip into one dirrection? What can I do to prevent this or if its too late what can I do to regain control of my car?

5) What should I expect? What should I advoid?

Anything extra you think I would need to know before driving on the snow would be great or I'll just end up finding out the hard way, either way I'll end up learning, this is just a little easier.

Thanks

[bikeman]

My questions;

1)

What will I need in order to drive on snow gracefully...and possibly ice as well. I kinda looking for something that is cheap but dependable, if I have to sacrifice cheap for dependable thats alright.

In your situation, I'd use chains in the mountains.

2)

Where is is snow is there always ice?

No.

3)

Is there a way to tell the difference between snow and ice (on the road).

Yes. Once you've totally lost control, that's probably ice.

4)

What will happen while driving on snow or ice, will I suddenly slip into one dirrection? What can I do to prevent this or if its too late what can I do to regain control of my car?

Practice before hand.

5)

What should I expect? What should I advoid?

Avoid the mountains.

David

[Ever Victorious]

1) What will I need in order to drive on snow gracefully...and possibly ice as well. I kinda looking for something that is cheap but dependable, if I have to sacrifice cheap for dependable thats alright.

Dependable + cheap = chains. You will have to be outside the car to put them on/take them off. They give more traction than snow tires. They also have the added drawback of a very low maximum speed... Chains are not meant to be driven on more than 35-40 MPH, and will snap if you drive them too fast or if you drive them too long on bare pavement.

Quote »2) Where is is snow is there always ice?[/quote]No, but it's a good guess that there will be ice under the snow. The tricky part is that there MAY be ice where there is no snow. It's called black ice, and it is called that because it's the same color as the pavement. And REALLY slick.

Quote »3) Is there a way to tell the difference between snow and ice (on the road).[/quote]Not an easy way to tell. Fresh snow will be obvious. Compact snow is almost as slippery as ice, but looks the same as white ice. Black ice is the same color as pavement, and is probably the second worst ice to drive on, short of glare ice.

Quote »4) What will happen while driving on snow or ice, will I suddenly slip into one dirrection? What can I do to prevent this or if its too late what can I do to regain control of my car?[/quote]Depends on what you're doing, how fast you're going, pitch of the road, how your wheels are turned, etc.

Once you've lost control of your car on a mountain road where compact snow and ice exists, you have little hope to regain control unless you are going slow and are very good at countersteering and feathering/modulating the brakes.

To mitigate possible damages from yourself or someone else losing control, give LOTS of space (6-10 second following distance, or 300+ feet), and don't drive anywhere near the "speed limit"... go slower.

Quote »5) What should I expect? What should I advoid?[/quote]Avoid speed, avoid sharp maneuvers, avoid sharp braking. You're best off if you make small, smooth adjustments. Otherwise, you may find yourself back-in in a snowbank.

[marleyfan]

1. Are you talking about what kind of vehicle or what kind of tires? Tires are the most important. Good snow tires will help ensure a safe passage. Depending upon how much snow you are dealing with chains may be required as well. Here, depending upon the weather, chains are mandatory through mountain passes.

2. Where there is snow there is more likely to be ice but not always. A layer of ice is often at the base of the snow but may not be an issue if there is the snow is deep enough. Sometimes a layer of ice can form on top of compact snow.

3. Snow is white and fluffy and usually does not look wet. Ice can often look wet and shiny but can also be white. Often a layer of ice can form on the blacktop and just looks black (black ice) and can look just like a dry road surface. This is the most dangerous since you often don't know it's ice until you are on it and losing control.

4. If you hit black ice take your foot off the gas and resist the instinct to hit the brake. Just tap the brake and steer in the direction of the skid. In other words if your back end is sliding to the left steer to the left. While driving in snow give yourself lots of room and SLOW DOWN. Don't try to drive like it's a summer day. On a front wheel drive car if the tires spin while in a turn your front end will want to go straight instead of following the turn. Just take your foot off the gas and the front should come around. Again, avoid the instinct to jam on the brakes. On steeper inclines (or declines) gear down.

5. Expect to need more time to get to your destination. Through mountain passes expect the weather to be unpredictable. Expect other drivers to make mistakes. As I said before, avoid the instinct to jam on the brakes. If you lose control throw the car into neutral and tap the brakes.

I grew up in Ontario Canada and now live in British Columbia and have driven winter mountain passes for years. The only time I have had a winter accident was, ironically, after a 1600 km trip through the snowstorms and mountain passes to Cranbrook and back, two blocks from home I hit slushy snow and ended up in the ditch.

Best advice: take it easy, don't be in a hurry. Have good tires.

[Versagirlie]

Maybe you shouldent be driving in the snow/ice ..........

[CopyChief]

First thing. If you're too nervous, get someone else to drive their own car, preferably someone who has experience driving in snow. They say a mad dog can smell fear when they attack you... vicious canines have nothing on black ice and snowbanks. If you're nervous, you're likely to end up in a ravine.

Seriously though, the most important thing is to go slow, especially around turns. If your car does not have ABS, NEVER slam on your breaks. Pump them. If you start to feel the wheels lock and you slide, let up on the breaks, then apply them again. Steer against the slide.

If you stop and get snow on your car, clean off the hood and the roof, too. Make sure all of your windows are clear. Keep the windshield defogged but don't turn the heat on TOO high - that'll make you sleepy.

Good luck!

[wobblypete]

Avoid speed, avoid sharp maneuvers, avoid sharp braking. You're best off if you make small, smooth adjustments. Otherwise, you may find yourself back-in in a snowbank.[/QUOTE]

Great advice. I remember when I was first learning to drive in the winter, the advice my Dad gave me was to imagine that there was an egg in between my foot and the brake and accelerator pedals (i.e. don't break the egg by pushing too hard). Essentially, every motion needs to be done slowly, carefully, and with a somewhat deliberate action. With practice I now feel like I can 'feel' the tires and traction through the pedals and wheel and adjust accordingly.

Of course, my new Versa is the first car I've owned with modern 'light touch' power steering, ABS, and assisted brakes, so I think I might have to reassess my winter driving strategy!

[lain]

So I guess a stoner won't have any trouble driving in the snow.

I guess what I was really interested in was about driving on the mountains cause by the time I get to the city I don't really care...there is no 1000ft drops. I'll be sliding around all day there. I rather hit a tree then fall off a clift.

btw I hit a tree before...I was 9 thought and it was my first time driving.

[marleyfan]

First thing. If you're too nervous, get someone else to drive their own car

Good advice

Steer against the slide.

What exactly does this mean? I've always heard it termed "turn into the slide." Which basically means keep your front wheels in line with the road, no matter which way your back end goes. To me "steer against the slide" would mean the opposite. We may mean the same thing....just semantics.

[motoguy128]

The improtant thing ot remember when you start sliding with a FWD car.... you need to give it some gas. Lifting throttle or applying the brakes will mke the situation worse. This applies if the car is "understeering" (Plowing, pushing the front end, not turning), or "oversteering" (loose, stepping out, sliding). It's difficult to break youself of the naturaly instict to apply the brakes and slow down as you feel your out of control.

Look at it this way... in a FWD car, the rear wheels are just along for the ride. Whichever direction the front wheels are turning and under power, the front of hte car will be pulled in that direction. So if the rear end starts sliding out, you need to propel the car forward to get it back inline. Just steering into the slide has little affect if there isn't any forward drive, the inertia of the slide will continue, causing a spin out.

Any way to visualize what the car is doing. Have you played a videogame where you were a space ship with a single rear thruster? You had to turn the ship to change direction or slow down. A sliding car is very similar to this. I'm not saying you need to spin into a 180 or put hte car in reverse to stop the car. But just applying the brakes or steering into a trun doesn;t always work in a FWD car.

[Rockhound]

So I guess a stoner won't have any trouble driving in the snow.

I guess what I was really interested in was about driving on the mountains cause by the time I get to the city I don't really care...there is no 1000ft drops. I'll be sliding around all day there. I rather hit a tree then fall off a clift.

Oh great. First time driver on snow/ice and you'll be stoned. Excellent combination - hazardous conditions and dulled reaction time. Perhaps - just perhaps - you should A) avoid doing this completely, or B) you could put down the bong for just a day to do this unimpaired.

Like you said, you'd hate to fall off a "clift" [sic].

[Ever Victorious]

Thank you, Rockhound... I didn't want to have to be the first person to say it this time.

[WDRacing]

*EDITED* for present company

WD

[KimberKenobi]

and I'm not listening to any of this...



(dangit, there's not a smiley covering his ears...)

[LinWin]

Lots of good advice.........one more thing, down shifting in snow and ice can keep you out of trouble. I live in Canada, lots of snow here. Using the gears to manouvre is key. Good luck.

[gotak]

Lots of good advice.........one more thing, down shifting in snow and ice can keep you out of trouble. I live in Canada, lots of snow here. Using the gears to manouvre is key. Good luck.

And starting on 2nd when on ice.

[7speed]

The improtant thing ot remember when you start sliding with a FWD car.... you need to give it some gas. Lifting throttle or applying the brakes will mke the situation worse. This applies if the car is "understeering" (Plowing, pushing the front end, not turning), or "oversteering" (loose, stepping out, sliding).

Ummm...No. Not quite. If you're understeering in a FWD car, it probably means you're going too fast for that corner, or trying to turn too sharply (again think subtle, deliberate actions) Giving it more gas will just increase the problem. Let off the gas, don't touch the brake, and try not to turn too sharply.

If you think that you have to turn sharper to make the corner, and the car won't turn, then you should have slowed down earlier. The best way to avoid a problem driving in slippery conditions is to drive slowly, and give yourself a lot of distance to slow down BEFORE you get to a corner. Hotheads and rednecks with 4x4s will probably breathe down your neck for going slowly, but in my experience, the slow drivers always arrive safely. The ones driving too fast end up in the ditch.

If your FWD car is oversteering, it probably means you pulled your handbrake, which you shouldn't have done if you're a novice when it comes to driving on snow. In theory, oversteering could happen if you accelerate quickly while turning, then the rear of the car would over-rotate it gets enough momentum.

In my experience of trying to do this on purpose (in empty parking lots), if the conditions promote sliding, then your front tires won't get enough traction to start the whole process. Even driving quickly into a bend, then lifting off the throttle to pitch the weight onto the front tires to help them bite and pull the car around the corner, I find that understeering is much more likely to happen than the contrary.

Anyway, in our parking lot example, IF you could get the car to oversteer, then applying the gas while counter steering would help the situation. If you lift off while the car is oversteering, the rear will continue on it's way round, and you'll go hatch-first into a snowbank.

Like most things, the best way to learn how to drive in the snow is to get out there and do it. But start slowly, in an empty parking lot, and all the other drivers on the road will be grateful for your practice.

[Great White Versa]

Lots of good advice.........one more thing, down shifting in snow and ice can keep you out of trouble. I live in Canada, lots of snow here. Using the gears to manouvre is key. Good luck.

I'll second this. You'll maintain better control of the car if you let the engine break while going down hill as opposed to pressing and release the break. Just remember to shift more slowly than you normally would. Meaning, release the clutch more slowly so that there is more time for the engine speed to adjust to the wheel speed and/or rev the engine with the gas while downshifting.

[gotak]

I'll second this. You'll maintain better control of the car if you let the engine break while going down hill as opposed to pressing and release the break. Just remember to shift more slowly than you normally would. Meaning, release the clutch more slowly so that there is more time for the engine speed to adjust to the wheel speed and/or rev the engine with the gas while downshifting.

Not in all conditions. Engine braking can cause problems where it causes the wheels to break lose. Like if you are going down a really slippery hill. Your wheels needs to turn at road speed to effectively steer. If you engine brake in those conditions you might not stop and also can't steer which can mean a crash. So if it slips under engine braking hit the clutch let it roll again and use the ABS there's no ABS like function on your engine. On VW cars they actually have something call Engine Braking Assist that helps prevent slipping due to engine compression.

[Ever Victorious]

7speed - Oversteer can happen on ice on a Versa pretty easily, without the handbrake, if it doesn't have ABS. The non-ABS model has far more front brake bias, and given that all the weight is over the front wheels, this has a tendancy to cause the rear to fishtail. If the rear doesn't dig in (like on ice), it will probably just fly past the front.

Gotak - not all US Versas have ABS. It is an option here, it wasn't even available before the 12/06 production changeover, and even after that it was pretty rare on hatches.

[lain]

Oh great. First time driver on snow/ice and you'll be stoned. Excellent combination - hazardous conditions and dulled reaction time. Perhaps - just perhaps - you should A) avoid doing this completely, or B) you could put down the bong for just a day to do this unimpaired.

Like you said, you'd hate to fall off a "clift" [sic].

Lol I'm just messing around...I'm not going to smoke while driving there (my gf would have a fit and thats something I would't want to deal with). Also my reaction time doesn't change one bit...I use to work as a professional gamer...you have to have a fast reaction time to to get in that kinda field of work. I'm not talking fast like, "wow that was fast", I'm talking fast like, "wtf how did he just do that!" kinda fast.

1) I would't use the word "hazardous".(maybe that is the word they use but I can't see it as hazardous and at the same time people are driving, why would you drive if the conditions are hazardous!" Lol I remember one time I was with my dad and there was a sign that said "DO NOT ENTER HIGH SNOW" my dad said, "That doesn't mean us." Anyways we were out in the wild no roads or signs driving in the mountains...was cool till we got stuck...so we were digging for a few hours with our hands and finally made it home.

2) I don't have a bong.

...Any way to visualize what the car is doing. Have you played a videogame where you were a space ship with a single rear thruster? You had to turn the ship to change direction or slow down. A sliding car is very similar to this. I'm not saying you need to spin into a 180 or put hte car in reverse to stop the car. But just applying the brakes or steering into a trun doesn;t always work in a FWD car.

I know exactly what understeering and oversteering are...i use to drive a 240sx.

And after reading all this driving in the snow isn't that much different then regular ground. Just that there are things I can do on the road that I can't normally do on snow...just take it slow everywhere, get chains and probably new tires. Should be fun.....sounds like fun.

[WDRacing]

Driving in bad weather has never been scary for me, I also found it to be alot of fun. Once you know what your car is going to do you can safely navigate most situations.

Have fun and good luck

[KimberKenobi]

*EDITED* for present company

awww... was this because of me? If so, then I'm a killjoy... sorry!

[Hedy]

Question:

Ok I live in a part of Cali where I never seen snow once. But I have gone to the mountians a couple of hundred times but never drove there myself.

My questions;

1) What will I need in order to drive on snow gracefully...and possibly ice as well. I kinda looking for something that is cheap but dependable, if I have to sacrifice cheap for dependable thats alright.

2) Where is is snow is there always ice?

3) Is there a way to tell the difference between snow and ice (on the road).

4) What will happen while driving on snow or ice, will I suddenly slip into one dirrection? What can I do to prevent this or if its too late what can I do to regain control of my car?

5) What should I expect? What should I advoid?

Anything extra you think I would need to know before driving on the snow would be great or I'll just end up finding out the hard way, either way I'll end up learning, this is just a little easier.

Thanks

question: do snow tires reduce the snow build-up on your wheels and wheel wells?

[Ever Victorious]

No. All snow tires do is improve traction in snow and ice.

They do this through improved channeling of water and slush, a distinctly different style of tread block, extending the tread blocks all the way over to the shoulder, as well as using a different compound of rubber that doesn't harden when the temperatures drop below 45 degrees fahrenheit.

[Hedy]

Thanks! I think I may invest anyway.