Shuttle
This is all just horrible. This is the first opportunity I have had to coment on it. I heard about it when I went over to palmerwmd's place this morning. Former_240_s14 was down to visit so they were the ones to tell me. I got up at my house and turned on the weather channel to see what it was going to do today, got ready, jumped in my car and listend to CD's so I had not heard or seen anything about it. I have heard that people already have debris for sale on the Internet, after everyone is being told to stay away from it. Investigators will need all they can to try to identify what exactly happend and some of it hs already been swiped. Crazy.
[quote=" Stoneage_Turbo ceramics are awesome [/quote]
I heard sometime ago that advances in ceramics from the space program were going to find all sorts of uses. Corningware comes to mind for one but also ceramic engine blocks. Think of the reduction in engine cooling systems that could result. More power and lighter wieghts. I haven't heard of this application for some time, however.
I heard sometime ago that advances in ceramics from the space program were going to find all sorts of uses. Corningware comes to mind for one but also ceramic engine blocks. Think of the reduction in engine cooling systems that could result. More power and lighter wieghts. I haven't heard of this application for some time, however.
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Stoneage_Turbo
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"yeah they are just now starting to talk about the possible terrorlst connection i think they are pretty much ruled out but iver heard everything from saddam to the russians on the news.(russians being a russian org. crime unit, the name escapes me, ex kgb'ers with access to military weaponry including nuclear that have no morals no afterthought about killing)"
NO!!!! we would have known if she was shot down , a failry large missle is the only thing capable of doing such a thing , of which our very own norad would have tracked , causeing prez bush to launch a counter strike and close down american airspace (outside the no fly zone due to falling debris) , remeber it went down over our airspace , we would have known from norad that it was shot down or coming under fire before it went down , norad tracks the shuttles whole decent for just such a occurance
NO!!!! we would have known if she was shot down , a failry large missle is the only thing capable of doing such a thing , of which our very own norad would have tracked , causeing prez bush to launch a counter strike and close down american airspace (outside the no fly zone due to falling debris) , remeber it went down over our airspace , we would have known from norad that it was shot down or coming under fire before it went down , norad tracks the shuttles whole decent for just such a occurance
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Stoneage_Turbo
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"I heard sometime ago that advances in ceramics from the space program were going to find all sorts of uses. Corningware comes to mind for one but also ceramic engine blocks. Think of the reduction in engine cooling systems that could result. More power and lighter wieghts. I haven't heard of this application for some time, however."
wonder bout the new ceramic rotors on porshces and other sportscars/racecars
wonder bout the new ceramic rotors on porshces and other sportscars/racecars
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Mayhem_J30
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I was thinking the same thing. But let's keep this thread focused on the tragedy. We already have an "Iraq" thread and we don't need 2. I'm going there to vent in a bit.There is absolutely no way the shuttle was brought down by a missle. The highest flying planes (American) are guessed to fly at not much more than 100,000'. The fastest missles are guessed to go not much more than mach 6. The shuttle was simply too high and too fast for any sort of AA weapon.
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lessthanjakejohn
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Mayhem_J30
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lessthanjakejohn wrote:hey guys you say that Ceramics cool extremely quickly. So does that mean that they also heat up very quickly? What is the specific heat of a tile?
they might cool quickly..unsure about that. I do remember that they have an EXTREMELY low heat transfer property, so they could absorb mass amounts of energy yet never burn ya.
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MaineExport
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Don't forget.... a NASA scientist invented Velcro! Also, communications and every part of our daily lives are directly affected by the space program. BlinkOr.... usually I like you, but that was just ignorant. Weather satellites not only give us an accurate forecast, but they save thousands of lives every year with storm warnings. They protect our borders so you don't have a realistic threat of having an ICBM drop on your roof tonight.... yes even you canuks benefit from our space program. Ships and aircraft use LORAN and GPS for navigation. Every time you set foot in a plane you are in the safest mode of transportation known to man... one of the key reasons is air traffic control. It relies on both radar and satellite. The space program isn't just for bragging rights.... they help all of us every day!
On the terrorlst theory.... the technology for a missile to hit the shuttle at that altitude and speed doesn't exist PERIOD. This was nothing but a pure tragedy. Also, even if it was a result of the tiles falling off during launch.... they are saying that it is impossible to fix once they are off the ground. Each individual tile has a serial number, and no other tile will fit that particular spot.
On the terrorlst theory.... the technology for a missile to hit the shuttle at that altitude and speed doesn't exist PERIOD. This was nothing but a pure tragedy. Also, even if it was a result of the tiles falling off during launch.... they are saying that it is impossible to fix once they are off the ground. Each individual tile has a serial number, and no other tile will fit that particular spot.
The SAM thing is a non issue.
However, inlight of the damage incurred to the Shuttle's integrity, lauch protocols will probably be changed. With 20/20 hindsight it's much easier to wish they had aborted while still climbing into orbit. They are trained for this proceedure. The loss of boosters and propellant tanks seems really cheap now compared to today's tragedy.
Not only are the crew's friends and relatives devastated but there are also many absolutely crestfallen scientists, engineers, and techs. I'm sure the honour and pride they feel as professionals has been shaken to the core. Every tech and every engineer has the right to abort the launch. All at NASA feel emotionally crushed out.
However, inlight of the damage incurred to the Shuttle's integrity, lauch protocols will probably be changed. With 20/20 hindsight it's much easier to wish they had aborted while still climbing into orbit. They are trained for this proceedure. The loss of boosters and propellant tanks seems really cheap now compared to today's tragedy.
Not only are the crew's friends and relatives devastated but there are also many absolutely crestfallen scientists, engineers, and techs. I'm sure the honour and pride they feel as professionals has been shaken to the core. Every tech and every engineer has the right to abort the launch. All at NASA feel emotionally crushed out.
I pulled this from AOL News
Quote »Crews Seek Shuttle Debris in Texas, La.
By PAM EASTON.c The Associated Press
NACOGDOCHES, Texas (AP) - Debris plummeted from the sky over hundreds of square miles of Texas and Louisiana, smashing a rooftop, splashing into a reservoir and sending emergency crews on a far-flung hunt for bits of what was once space shuttle Columbia.
Across the city of Nacogdoches and the surrounding region of pine forest, residents found chunks of debris. A small tank rested on a runway. A steel rod with silver bolts was roped off behind yellow police tape in a yard. A piece of metal rested in a bank parking lot.
Debris covered a terrain that ranged from the urban prairie flatlands near Dallas to the hilly pine woods of Louisiana, mostly turning up in tiny blue-collar towns that survive on farming and timber. A piece of tile fell within 75 miles of President Bush's ranch in Crawford.
Authorities urged the public to report any debris but not touch it for fear of contamination from toxic substances. The Army sent in helicopters and soldiers to locate and guard bits of wreckage, which could be pivotal in determining the cause of the disaster.
The search halted as darkness fell. NASA newsroom secretary Diana Hunter said it would resume at daylight Sunday.
In Hemphill, near the Louisiana state line, hospital employee Mike Gibbs reported finding what appeared to be a charred torso, thigh bone and skull on a rural road near what was believed to be other debris. Billy Smith, an emergency coordinator for three East Texas counties, confirmed the find.
``I wouldn't want anybody seeing what I saw,'' Gibbs said. ``It was pretty gruesome.''
The Columbia broke apart in flames 200,000 feet over Texas, killing all seven astronauts just minutes before they were to glide to a landing in Florida.
Debris has been tracked in a 500-square-mile area but could be spread over a region three times that, said James Kroll, director of the Emergency Geospacial Mapping Center at Stephen F. Austin State University in Nacogdoches.
As authorities rushed to secure pieces of the shuttle, residents gathered to get a glimpse.
``Everybody's treating this like it's an alien crash,'' said Phillip Russell, 17.
Jim Stutzman of Nacogdoches - 135 miles northeast of Houston - found a 9-inch long, 2-inch wide piece of metal in his yard. ``It has heat burns, melted metal and some of the grass burned into it when it fell,'' he said.
Jeff Han****, a 29-year-old dentist, said a foot-long metal bracket smashed through the roof of his office.
``It's all over,'' said James Milford, owner of Milford Barber shop in downtown Nacogdoches. ``There are several little pieces, some parts of machinery.''
Dozens of residents gathered in front of Rice High School, about 40 miles southeast of Dallas, to look at what appeared to be a charred piece of tile from the space shuttle. The area around the piece was blocked off with tape.
``It's just kind of an event that doesn't happen every day,'' said Rhonda Martin, 32, of Kemp. ``It's going to go down in history.'' Martin held her toddler son while her husband took photos.
Behind a bank in Nacogdoches, flowers were laid out - including seven pink roses - in a makeshift memorial as residents gathered around a taped off area that contained a 3-by-3 piece of metal.
Ed Rohner, Nacogdoches airport manager, said some type of tank ended up on a runway, and debris was scattered along the airport entrance road.
Cherokee County Sheriff James Campbell said debris was reported to have fallen around the towns of Jacksonville, Palestine, Rusk and Athens in east Texas.
``We've had people bring pieces of it up here to the office,'' he said. ``We certainly want to discourage that.
Debris found in San Augustine County about 140 miles northeast of Houston included a charred astronaut's patch and a flight helmet.
Debris also fell in western Louisiana, including a smoldering bundle of wires in a Shreveport front yard and pieces that reportedly dropped into Toledo Bend Reservoir on the Texas border, threatening water supplies.
``I heard the piece coming down through the air. It sounded like it was fluttering,'' said Elbie Bradley, 69, who was fishing on the reservoir.
One of the pieces that fell into the reservoir was the size of a compact car, said Sheriff Tom Maddox.
Two F-16s from the Naval Air Station Joint Reserve Base in Fort Worth were dispatched to Tyler to map the debris field.
The Federal Aviation Administration established a no-fly zone to clear the airspace for mapping. It barred other aircraft from taking off, landing or flying below 3,000 feet in a 50-mile-wide swath from Ennis, in central Texas, to Fort Polk, La.
Helicopters and soldiers from Fort Hood in central Texas were also dispatched, a spokesman said. Members of the National Guard were protecting the debris.
Authorities ordered people to stay 100 yards away from the debris because of contamination fears. However, a number of Nacogdoches residents were picking up pieces and turning them in to law enforcement officers.
G.W. Jones, assistant administrator at Nacogdoches Memorial Hospital, said at least 42 people had come to the hospital seeking information after touching pieces of debris. He had no reports of any adverse effects so far.
``We're telling them to just wash their hands and any other body parts that may have come in contact with the debris,'' Jones said. ``The first thing is not to touch it. If they do, they should contact their local ER or family doctor for any follow up.''
Shuttles have long used a chemical called hydrazine to run their auxiliary power units. Hydrazine, a colorless liquid with an ammonia-like odor, is a toxic chemical and can cause harm to anyone who contacts it.
Investigators in the Dallas suburb of Plano were trying to learn whether an apartment fire was caused by shuttle debris. Fire department spokeswoman Monique Cardwell said a link was considered unlikely because no witnesses saw debris and there were no other confirmed local reports of wreckage.
Much of the area where debris has been reported lies in the Piney Woods timber region of east Texas, which is rugged and densely wooded in places. The Texas Forest Service was helping local officials plot debris locations on a map.
NASA set up telephone number for people who find debris to call: 281-483-3388.
02/01/03 23:43 EST
Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.[/quote]
This is very sad. I was only 1 when the Challanger went down. I never thought id ever see a shuttle blow up, but it happend. I also neevr thought id see the Twin Towers fall either.
Quote »Crews Seek Shuttle Debris in Texas, La.
By PAM EASTON.c The Associated Press
NACOGDOCHES, Texas (AP) - Debris plummeted from the sky over hundreds of square miles of Texas and Louisiana, smashing a rooftop, splashing into a reservoir and sending emergency crews on a far-flung hunt for bits of what was once space shuttle Columbia.
Across the city of Nacogdoches and the surrounding region of pine forest, residents found chunks of debris. A small tank rested on a runway. A steel rod with silver bolts was roped off behind yellow police tape in a yard. A piece of metal rested in a bank parking lot.
Debris covered a terrain that ranged from the urban prairie flatlands near Dallas to the hilly pine woods of Louisiana, mostly turning up in tiny blue-collar towns that survive on farming and timber. A piece of tile fell within 75 miles of President Bush's ranch in Crawford.
Authorities urged the public to report any debris but not touch it for fear of contamination from toxic substances. The Army sent in helicopters and soldiers to locate and guard bits of wreckage, which could be pivotal in determining the cause of the disaster.
The search halted as darkness fell. NASA newsroom secretary Diana Hunter said it would resume at daylight Sunday.
In Hemphill, near the Louisiana state line, hospital employee Mike Gibbs reported finding what appeared to be a charred torso, thigh bone and skull on a rural road near what was believed to be other debris. Billy Smith, an emergency coordinator for three East Texas counties, confirmed the find.
``I wouldn't want anybody seeing what I saw,'' Gibbs said. ``It was pretty gruesome.''
The Columbia broke apart in flames 200,000 feet over Texas, killing all seven astronauts just minutes before they were to glide to a landing in Florida.
Debris has been tracked in a 500-square-mile area but could be spread over a region three times that, said James Kroll, director of the Emergency Geospacial Mapping Center at Stephen F. Austin State University in Nacogdoches.
As authorities rushed to secure pieces of the shuttle, residents gathered to get a glimpse.
``Everybody's treating this like it's an alien crash,'' said Phillip Russell, 17.
Jim Stutzman of Nacogdoches - 135 miles northeast of Houston - found a 9-inch long, 2-inch wide piece of metal in his yard. ``It has heat burns, melted metal and some of the grass burned into it when it fell,'' he said.
Jeff Han****, a 29-year-old dentist, said a foot-long metal bracket smashed through the roof of his office.
``It's all over,'' said James Milford, owner of Milford Barber shop in downtown Nacogdoches. ``There are several little pieces, some parts of machinery.''
Dozens of residents gathered in front of Rice High School, about 40 miles southeast of Dallas, to look at what appeared to be a charred piece of tile from the space shuttle. The area around the piece was blocked off with tape.
``It's just kind of an event that doesn't happen every day,'' said Rhonda Martin, 32, of Kemp. ``It's going to go down in history.'' Martin held her toddler son while her husband took photos.
Behind a bank in Nacogdoches, flowers were laid out - including seven pink roses - in a makeshift memorial as residents gathered around a taped off area that contained a 3-by-3 piece of metal.
Ed Rohner, Nacogdoches airport manager, said some type of tank ended up on a runway, and debris was scattered along the airport entrance road.
Cherokee County Sheriff James Campbell said debris was reported to have fallen around the towns of Jacksonville, Palestine, Rusk and Athens in east Texas.
``We've had people bring pieces of it up here to the office,'' he said. ``We certainly want to discourage that.
Debris found in San Augustine County about 140 miles northeast of Houston included a charred astronaut's patch and a flight helmet.
Debris also fell in western Louisiana, including a smoldering bundle of wires in a Shreveport front yard and pieces that reportedly dropped into Toledo Bend Reservoir on the Texas border, threatening water supplies.
``I heard the piece coming down through the air. It sounded like it was fluttering,'' said Elbie Bradley, 69, who was fishing on the reservoir.
One of the pieces that fell into the reservoir was the size of a compact car, said Sheriff Tom Maddox.
Two F-16s from the Naval Air Station Joint Reserve Base in Fort Worth were dispatched to Tyler to map the debris field.
The Federal Aviation Administration established a no-fly zone to clear the airspace for mapping. It barred other aircraft from taking off, landing or flying below 3,000 feet in a 50-mile-wide swath from Ennis, in central Texas, to Fort Polk, La.
Helicopters and soldiers from Fort Hood in central Texas were also dispatched, a spokesman said. Members of the National Guard were protecting the debris.
Authorities ordered people to stay 100 yards away from the debris because of contamination fears. However, a number of Nacogdoches residents were picking up pieces and turning them in to law enforcement officers.
G.W. Jones, assistant administrator at Nacogdoches Memorial Hospital, said at least 42 people had come to the hospital seeking information after touching pieces of debris. He had no reports of any adverse effects so far.
``We're telling them to just wash their hands and any other body parts that may have come in contact with the debris,'' Jones said. ``The first thing is not to touch it. If they do, they should contact their local ER or family doctor for any follow up.''
Shuttles have long used a chemical called hydrazine to run their auxiliary power units. Hydrazine, a colorless liquid with an ammonia-like odor, is a toxic chemical and can cause harm to anyone who contacts it.
Investigators in the Dallas suburb of Plano were trying to learn whether an apartment fire was caused by shuttle debris. Fire department spokeswoman Monique Cardwell said a link was considered unlikely because no witnesses saw debris and there were no other confirmed local reports of wreckage.
Much of the area where debris has been reported lies in the Piney Woods timber region of east Texas, which is rugged and densely wooded in places. The Texas Forest Service was helping local officials plot debris locations on a map.
NASA set up telephone number for people who find debris to call: 281-483-3388.
02/01/03 23:43 EST
Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.[/quote]
This is very sad. I was only 1 when the Challanger went down. I never thought id ever see a shuttle blow up, but it happend. I also neevr thought id see the Twin Towers fall either.
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MasterMan
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ive held one of the shuttles ceramic tiles.. ive also been in the place where they make them.. (my dad works at the space center so we get to walk around basicly wherever on a certan day) they are crazy.. really light.. tho ive never seen one being heated up..
also anyone that is trying to sell parts of the shuttle is just plain dumb.. the govenment will take it, then arrest them.. its govenment property...
also anyone that is trying to sell parts of the shuttle is just plain dumb.. the govenment will take it, then arrest them.. its govenment property...
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Bubba1
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Very sad and tragic. I hope this incident won't deter the space program. But my guess is the problem was caused by some of those ceramic tiles coming off, not by the tiles failing themselves. Once they're off, it wouldn't take long for the exposed stucture underneath to fail under all that heat. NASA has had problems with the tiles falling off in the past. Just speculation, and highly unlikely it was terrorism of any sort.
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nissanrose
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its all just very sad and tragic. its another thing america will have to get thru!! and we can do it, i just pray for the families and friends of the crew. i very highly doubt this was a terror attack,but then again with them crazy a## sobs i wouldn't put past them. nd i think the space program will be just fine.
One of the officials that appeared a lot durung the Sat. crash coverage was the Executive Director of NASA. The top guy. I really didn't care for his attitude. There was something about his demeanor that rubbed me the wrong way.
Early today, I learned that his postion is a political (presidential) appointment. Then I come to hear that W slashed the shuttle maintenace budget by $500,000,000 last year and this new guy came in at the same time. No wonder this guy seemed odd and I mean odd like Trent Lott's really strange apology attempts where he didn't seem to "get it". This guy is W's hatchet man and the buck's second last stop is him. I guess that I got the feeling the he was covering up and making excuses Sat. Something about him just wasn't congruent to the feelings of shock everybody else was going through.
And the buck's last stop is?
Early today, I learned that his postion is a political (presidential) appointment. Then I come to hear that W slashed the shuttle maintenace budget by $500,000,000 last year and this new guy came in at the same time. No wonder this guy seemed odd and I mean odd like Trent Lott's really strange apology attempts where he didn't seem to "get it". This guy is W's hatchet man and the buck's second last stop is him. I guess that I got the feeling the he was covering up and making excuses Sat. Something about him just wasn't congruent to the feelings of shock everybody else was going through.
And the buck's last stop is?
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MaineExport
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maineimport wrote:Another right-wing conspiracy uncovered by Vimyj..... who would-a' guessed?!:rolleyes
I don't know about conspiracy but this tragedy looks to be directly related to a $500 million shuttle maintenance budget cut. NASA is directly under the president's control. It doesn't matter if he is a Republican or Marxist-Lenonist. This happened on his watch with his budget and with his man in charge. That's just the way it is.
I wonder what programs got cut or cut back?
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MaineExport
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Originally posted by VimyJ "]I don't know about conspiracy but this tragedy looks to be directly related to a $500 million shuttle maintenance budget cut.
You'll have to connect the dots for me on this one. NASA doesn't even know what this tragedy is "directly related" or attributable to.... how did you conclude this before anyone else? Have you called them yet?
NASA is directly under the president's control. It doesn't matter if he is a Republican or Marxist-Lenonist. This happened on his watch with his budget and with his man in charge. That's just the way it is.
It is an interesting correlation and an unfortunate scenario, but to say it is "directly realted" to the funding cut is a bit more than a stretch.
You'll have to connect the dots for me on this one. NASA doesn't even know what this tragedy is "directly related" or attributable to.... how did you conclude this before anyone else? Have you called them yet?
NASA is directly under the president's control. It doesn't matter if he is a Republican or Marxist-Lenonist. This happened on his watch with his budget and with his man in charge. That's just the way it is.
It is an interesting correlation and an unfortunate scenario, but to say it is "directly realted" to the funding cut is a bit more than a stretch.
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Stoneage_Turbo
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Just about anything
awnsers some of my questions where all this money ol W is giveing out comes from , he gives out money everywhere but i dont really see more going in (tax hikes) it all has to come from inside somewhere , and something has to give that money up and we all know congressmen wont take a pay cut ..
hell us military folks got a yearly raise , in a time when the airforce is tells our base that funds are being diverted to the possible war in iraq so we need to scrutinze what we do to our trucks , dont get me wrong we still maintian them top notch but to be pressured to save money makes me wonder , id go without the yearly payriase if it left the military/govt more cash to get things done
looking at my post here its funny , me a e-4 is will to give up a pay raise when i only earn around 20k a year but a fat cat doesnt wanna give up a penny , i guess the lower class knows the value of money more than they do eh?
scary that they slash the budget for nasa and a shuttle comes down ...then again apolo in the 60s with that fire that killed 3 astronauts was at a time when so much money was being pumped in to beat the ruskies that we could afford to keep things in check
too bad they canceld plans for the next gen space shuttle , its about time for a update wouldnt you all say ?
hell us military folks got a yearly raise , in a time when the airforce is tells our base that funds are being diverted to the possible war in iraq so we need to scrutinze what we do to our trucks , dont get me wrong we still maintian them top notch but to be pressured to save money makes me wonder , id go without the yearly payriase if it left the military/govt more cash to get things done
looking at my post here its funny , me a e-4 is will to give up a pay raise when i only earn around 20k a year but a fat cat doesnt wanna give up a penny , i guess the lower class knows the value of money more than they do eh?
scary that they slash the budget for nasa and a shuttle comes down ...then again apolo in the 60s with that fire that killed 3 astronauts was at a time when so much money was being pumped in to beat the ruskies that we could afford to keep things in check
too bad they canceld plans for the next gen space shuttle , its about time for a update wouldnt you all say ?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by maineimport "]You'll have to connect the dots for me on this one. NASA doesn't even know what this tragedy is "directly related" or attributable to.... how did you conclude this before anyone else? Have you called them yet?
NASA is aware now that increased aerodynamic drag on the left wing was causing the computer to attempt to compensate. This definitely appears tile related especially when coupled with the increased temperature readings from various left side sensors. Add on the fact of the ET insulation strike and you have a proverbial smoking gun.
It is an interesting correlation and an unfortunate scenario, but to say it is "directly realted" to the funding cut is a bit more than a stretch.
Indeed an unfortunate scenario but a $500 million cut to the shuttle maintenance program has to have a bearing on safety.
NASA is aware now that increased aerodynamic drag on the left wing was causing the computer to attempt to compensate. This definitely appears tile related especially when coupled with the increased temperature readings from various left side sensors. Add on the fact of the ET insulation strike and you have a proverbial smoking gun.
It is an interesting correlation and an unfortunate scenario, but to say it is "directly realted" to the funding cut is a bit more than a stretch.
Indeed an unfortunate scenario but a $500 million cut to the shuttle maintenance program has to have a bearing on safety.
Stoneage_Turbo wrote:awnsers some of my questions where all this money ol W is giveing out comes from , he gives out money everywhere but i dont really see more going in (tax hikes) it all has to come from inside somewhere , and something has to give that money up and we all know congressmen wont take a pay cut ..
hell us military folks got a yearly raise , in a time when the airforce is tells our base that funds are being diverted to the possible war in iraq so we need to scrutinze what we do to our trucks , dont get me wrong we still maintian them top notch but to be pressured to save money makes me wonder , id go without the yearly payriase if it left the military/govt more cash to get things done
looking at my post here its funny , me a e-4 is will to give up a pay raise when i only earn around 20k a year but a fat cat doesnt wanna give up a penny , i guess the lower class knows the value of money more than they do eh?
I don't know about "lower class" but , Stoneage, you and your comrades are true professionals. Having guys that are devoted to duty like you give me a good feeling about the quality of individuals in the military. (Remember, W walked away from his Guard unit when they instituted mandatory drug testing.) You're worth more than 50 W's, IMHO. Keep up the excellent work.
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MaineExport
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Originally posted by Stoneage_Turbo "]awnsers some of my questions where all this money ol W is giveing out comes from , he gives out money everywhere but i dont really see more going in (tax hikes) it all has to come from inside somewhere
Actually, it is an effort to stimulate spening which increases tax revenue and fuels the economy in MANY ways. Taxes are used to influence behavior just as much as they are used to generate revenue. Giving a tax break of $1 to one group does not mean that $1 must be removed from the budget somewhere else. That is a common misconception that liberals love to explit and feed the "regular" people to elicit support for their agenda.
and we all know congressmen wont take a pay cut ..
On this, I agree with you wholeheartedly, they could certainly stand to take a pay cut. Not that they make loads of money, but THEY shouldn't be the one's who decide if they deserve a raise!
hell us military folks got a yearly raise,
Again, behavior-influencing spending. Higher pay means you have more money to spend->tax->fuel economy. Also, this makes the job more enticing to people who may be on the fence, giving the military the proverbial 'pick of the litter'.
in a time when the airforce is tells our base that funds are being diverted to the possible war in iraq so we need to scrutinze what we do to our trucks , dont get me wrong we still maintian them top notch but to be pressured to save money makes me wonder , id go without the yearly payriase if it left the military/govt more cash to get things done
You're a far better man than most.
looking at my post here its funny , me a e-4 is will to give up a pay raise when i only earn around 20k a year but a fat cat doesnt wanna give up a penny , i guess the lower class knows the value of money more than they do eh?
Some of us appreciate the value of money. Others have no work ethic and refuse to lift a finger because the Fed hands them everything they need to maintain their pathetic existance. They're happy with the quality of life they live as long as they don't have to show up for work 9 to 5. Hell, we have to mail them their checks and food stamps... they're too lazy to go pick them up.... sad. (sorry for the rant.... it's all in fun!):D
Actually, it is an effort to stimulate spening which increases tax revenue and fuels the economy in MANY ways. Taxes are used to influence behavior just as much as they are used to generate revenue. Giving a tax break of $1 to one group does not mean that $1 must be removed from the budget somewhere else. That is a common misconception that liberals love to explit and feed the "regular" people to elicit support for their agenda.
and we all know congressmen wont take a pay cut ..
On this, I agree with you wholeheartedly, they could certainly stand to take a pay cut. Not that they make loads of money, but THEY shouldn't be the one's who decide if they deserve a raise!
hell us military folks got a yearly raise,
Again, behavior-influencing spending. Higher pay means you have more money to spend->tax->fuel economy. Also, this makes the job more enticing to people who may be on the fence, giving the military the proverbial 'pick of the litter'.
in a time when the airforce is tells our base that funds are being diverted to the possible war in iraq so we need to scrutinze what we do to our trucks , dont get me wrong we still maintian them top notch but to be pressured to save money makes me wonder , id go without the yearly payriase if it left the military/govt more cash to get things done
You're a far better man than most.
looking at my post here its funny , me a e-4 is will to give up a pay raise when i only earn around 20k a year but a fat cat doesnt wanna give up a penny , i guess the lower class knows the value of money more than they do eh?
Some of us appreciate the value of money. Others have no work ethic and refuse to lift a finger because the Fed hands them everything they need to maintain their pathetic existance. They're happy with the quality of life they live as long as they don't have to show up for work 9 to 5. Hell, we have to mail them their checks and food stamps... they're too lazy to go pick them up.... sad. (sorry for the rant.... it's all in fun!):D
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MaineExport
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Originally posted by VimyJ "]NASA is aware now that increased aerodynamic drag on the left wing was causing the computer to attempt to compensate. This definitely appears tile related especially when coupled with the increased temperature readings from various left side sensors. Add on the fact of the ET insulation strike and you have a proverbial smoking gun.
The tiles where apparently damaged by the fallng insulation.... neither the tile nor insulation was 'obviously" the victim of poor maintenance. The shuttles are constantly maintained and upgraded. The Columbia was considered the finest shuttle in the fleet even though it was the oldest. Reagardless of the budget, they sytematically scrutinize the safety and state of repair of each shuttle.
The Challenger disaster could be related to penny pinching. The spending was not approved for the more expensive but safer single stage booster rockets. As a result the three stage system was used and the "O-Rings" were employed. Ultimately, that was what lead to the explosion. Had they used single stage boosters the problem would not have occured, and we would have saved 7 lives and an entire shuttle.
Indeed an unfortunate scenario but a $500 million cut to the shuttle maintenance program has to have a bearing on safety.
Perhapse, but this incident looks to be the result of the poor design of the solid fuel tank. The insulation came off during lift off and caused the tile damage. If your license plate rips off on the highway and dings your window, it is most likely due to a design flaw on the license plate bracket, not an improperly maintained window.
I agree on the premise that a maintenance budget cut can impact the maintenance of a shuttle, but not necessarily the safety. If my vehicle maintenance budget gets cut I might not buy the new seats, but I will still buy new tires. You are implying that tightening spending is a bad thing. This is how redundancies and waste are eliminated. You give these people no credit.
I think we all need to keep in mind that this is still an experimental program, and an ever-changing, experimental air/spacecraft. There is a learning curve involved and NOTHING is guaranteed. It is a horrible tragedy and we will learn from our mistakes, but to point the finger at the president is just fuc#ing absurd.
The tiles where apparently damaged by the fallng insulation.... neither the tile nor insulation was 'obviously" the victim of poor maintenance. The shuttles are constantly maintained and upgraded. The Columbia was considered the finest shuttle in the fleet even though it was the oldest. Reagardless of the budget, they sytematically scrutinize the safety and state of repair of each shuttle.
The Challenger disaster could be related to penny pinching. The spending was not approved for the more expensive but safer single stage booster rockets. As a result the three stage system was used and the "O-Rings" were employed. Ultimately, that was what lead to the explosion. Had they used single stage boosters the problem would not have occured, and we would have saved 7 lives and an entire shuttle.
Indeed an unfortunate scenario but a $500 million cut to the shuttle maintenance program has to have a bearing on safety.
Perhapse, but this incident looks to be the result of the poor design of the solid fuel tank. The insulation came off during lift off and caused the tile damage. If your license plate rips off on the highway and dings your window, it is most likely due to a design flaw on the license plate bracket, not an improperly maintained window.
I agree on the premise that a maintenance budget cut can impact the maintenance of a shuttle, but not necessarily the safety. If my vehicle maintenance budget gets cut I might not buy the new seats, but I will still buy new tires. You are implying that tightening spending is a bad thing. This is how redundancies and waste are eliminated. You give these people no credit.
I think we all need to keep in mind that this is still an experimental program, and an ever-changing, experimental air/spacecraft. There is a learning curve involved and NOTHING is guaranteed. It is a horrible tragedy and we will learn from our mistakes, but to point the finger at the president is just fuc#ing absurd.
Sounds exactly like the balderdash spouted by Mush Dimbulb, propaganda minister to the ignorant. This proposed tax cut benefits primarily the wealthy and most experts agree it will do little to promote capital spending.maineimport wrote:Actually, it is an effort to stimulate spening which increases tax revenue and fuels the economy in MANY ways. Taxes are used to influence behavior just as much as they are used to generate revenue. Giving a tax break of $1 to one group does not mean that $1 must be removed from the budget somewhere else. That is a common misconception that liberals love to explit and feed the "regular" people to elicit support for their agenda.
The GOP is ramping up expenditures and reducing revenue. The White House budget director was on C-Span yesterday blithely telling reporters that yearly deficits of $200 billion a year are no cause for concern! I, for one, do not care for my tax dollars going to pay interest on multibillion dollar debt. "No problem" this clown says, "interest rates are low." So with government sucking up debt decreasing the money supply how is that not going to raise interest rates? Supply and demand, baby. More demand for credit means higher prices for credit. This policy of W's is going to have severe ramifications for decades.
This of course goes back to my opinion that W & Co. Inc. want to divest the federal government of responsibilities and entitlement programs of all kinds (not just welfare checks) and a huge deficit is their means to that end. More and more responsibilities will be dumped on state governments. Heaven help you if you live in an economically disadvantaged state because your standard of living is going to take a big hit in the coming years. There is more to creating a great nation than protecting the investments of the wealthy. Is it mere cooincidence that the flowering of modern western civilization occured with the creation of an ever stronger middle class?
Yes, I know this is off topic.
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Stoneage_Turbo
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Just about anything
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MaineExport
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Originally posted by VimyJ "]Sounds exactly like the balderdash spouted by Mush Dimbulb,
Hmmmm... that sounds familiar, where have I heard it before? Oh yeah..... that's what you say every time someone expresses an economic theory that sounds even the slightest bit conservative. Again... I don't listen to talk radio.
propaganda minister to the ignorant.
**(struggles not to take it personally... then remembers the source)**
I forgot, we're all brainwashed and can't formulate opinions of our own, and you are the enlightened one with all the answers... I should remember my place, forgive me for being out of line.... my bad. :rolleyes
EDIT: Interesting that the "ignorant" that listen to people like Rush... tend to be the wealthier, more successful and productive members of society. They must have gotten there through ignorance.
Your "W & Co." routine has lost its humor, now it just sounds lame. Think of something new to ***** about.... you're starting to sound like a broken record.
Hmmmm... that sounds familiar, where have I heard it before? Oh yeah..... that's what you say every time someone expresses an economic theory that sounds even the slightest bit conservative. Again... I don't listen to talk radio.
propaganda minister to the ignorant.
**(struggles not to take it personally... then remembers the source)**
I forgot, we're all brainwashed and can't formulate opinions of our own, and you are the enlightened one with all the answers... I should remember my place, forgive me for being out of line.... my bad. :rolleyes
EDIT: Interesting that the "ignorant" that listen to people like Rush... tend to be the wealthier, more successful and productive members of society. They must have gotten there through ignorance.
Your "W & Co." routine has lost its humor, now it just sounds lame. Think of something new to ***** about.... you're starting to sound like a broken record.
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MaineExport
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maineimport wrote:I thought Rush was done with radio.... I heard he went deaf or something.
Man, if I had to listen to Mush Dimbulb 24/7, I'd be glad to go deaf.
There is a crazy talk show ***** with a local radio show tonight that said she loves everything about W's ( that's pronounced "Dubya", BTW) proposed budget except that it didn't seem to have any money for building bomb shelters and stocking them with food. I kid you not. What a world. Never underestimate the stupidity of your audience.