should i feel guilty? (smog)

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greg_atlanta
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Smog has attacked Atlanta... air quality has been in the unhealthy range all day long.

Should I feel bad for driving an older car? Is my '92 Q any worse than the average SUV? Always passes emissions tests.

I noticed that a new G35 sedan scores 6/10 on EPA green vehicle guide, new Maxima scores 8/10. Cars prior to 2000 aren't listed anymore, but I'm sure my Q45 would rank a 1 or 2 (where the big SUVs rank today).

http://www.air.dnr.state.ga.us...lanta

:confused:


Chad91Q45
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having the style of the Q has some costs. Polluting just happens to be one of them!

911/Q45
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1996 Porsche Turbo

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Have to check mine every two years here. The figures on the test are just as clean as my 96 OBD2 car.

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Highway Q45
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The Q passed again with flying colors last April. It has a lower "percentage of average" emissions than any car I have owned. At 122K miles it puts out less pollutants than my 34K mile Miata did; let's not even talk about what I have to do to get the Turbo to pass. Really, a well tuned Q is an engineering marvel for a 14 YO vehicle.

Q45tech
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The 1990-93 Q must meet 220ppm HC and 1.2% CO compare that to 1980 requirement 350 ppm and 3.5% CO

Cars Year 1975 1977 1981 1994 1999 2004-2009 NOx Standard (gpm) 3.1 2.0 1.0 0.6 0.3 0.07

Smaller SUVs, Minivans, and Light Trucks (Less that 6000 lbs) Year 1975 1979 1988 1994 1999 2004-2009 NOx Standard (gpm) 3.1 2.3 1.2 0.6 0.5 0.07

Larger SUVs, Vans, and Heavier Trucks (Between 6000 and 8500 lbs) Year 1988 1994 2004-2007 2008-2009 NOx Standard (gpm) 1.7 1.53 0.2 0.07

Actually the 90 Q could be as bad as 4-5 -------- 2002 cars.or 10 -------- 2005 ULEV carsThe problem is a plus 100,000 mile Q with weak cats/dirty EGR and sluggish O2.

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Rex
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How do emissions #'s translate into engine "health"? (If at all)

squeefoo
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Read a book called "Trashing the Planet" by Dr. Dixie Lee RayOr "Environmental Overkill" among many. Most of the arguments used in the press via "experts" are supposed to create "guilt". Works doesn't it ?

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rsiwicki
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I will probably get ripped a new one for this thought...but to me being environmentally friendly and like all other things is all about "getting the balance right".....everything is a matter of balance (almost). Now my car is certainly no tree hugging angel, but yet I recycle in my condo which is not easily done....yet there are those others out there who are driving a more environmentally friendly car, but yet don't recycle. I know I recycle more than anybody else in my condo because I am on the board and we only have the recyclers come about once every two weeks for a very small recycle bin that is never full vs the huge garbage shoot bins that the trash guy comes 3 times a week. I am not saying that my recycling substitutes by any means for my polluting car.......but that just because you see someone doing something that is less polluting on one thing does not mean that they are doing just as much damage somewhere else. Heck...they could be for all I know driving an econo box, but yet not recycling the oil properly after doing an oil change themselves.

BTW....I am working on getting my car back to its environmentally friendly status....just not easy after the last mod.

Q45tech
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Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
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Don't confuse the relatively high numbers allowed to pass for low pollution. Carbon dioxide/ monoxide are just functions of miles per gallon and miles driven.Trees in US produce more hydrocarbons than cars........except those cars that leak VOC [gasoline fumes].http://gtresearchnews.gatech.e....html

"The world's trees, shrubs and other plants do produce massive amounts of hydrocarbons - nine times as much as do vehicles, by some counts.

Those gases, most notably isoprene, are major ingredients of ozone, a lung irritant linked to asthma and other serious respiratory ailments."

http://www.water.az.gov/NewsAr...3.htm

Nitric Oxides are the killers.EGR explanation:http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/nov97/gas.htm

Must read if you have an old 2.4 liter Nissan engine [240SX]:http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/dec97/egr.htmLast paragraph!

More info on EGR theory:http://www.motorage.com/motora...01041

Q45tech
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Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
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Those that redesign exhaust without EGR or change back pressure by no cats or even high flow temporary life cats are probably the worst pollutters.

Those are the cars that probably need confiscation on the spot and forced rehabilitation to oem specs.

"It is essential to realize that the catalyst functions effectively only within 2 percent of 14.7:1 rich or lean (an A/F ratio of 14.40-14.99). Wander beyond these values and the converter does little or nothing to clean the exhaust. "

20% EGR can actually increase cruise MPG and decrease Nox by a factor of 4 or more depending on exact engine load without a cat, with a cat the system can reduce Nox bt a factor of 10-20.

Q45tech
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Changing O2 sensors every 60-100k:http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ic/ic10044.htm

squeefoo
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Research the history of the environmental movement; Who the leaders are, what their affiliations are, who funds them, ETC.What famous leader of which environmental group claims that it was taken over by a radical faction and "lost the vision" of the original intent of the founders? Also find anything by DR. S. Fred Singer

squeefoo
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Not also above Q45Tech's numbers which show decreased tolerance year by year. They're doing it up here too in counties on Lake Michigan up north where you can drive for hours and not see any concentrated heavy industry, except for the lake itself which supports plant life, which as stated above causes (directly or indirectly) ozone itself. Bureaucracy is the self-perpetuating organism (Russel Kirk -1944?) which is to blame; aided and abetted by those who would use this self-perpetuation to their own ends, basically anti capitalist. Whew!

Q45tech
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Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
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Till you live in a extreme smog area hard to relate and understand.

This year's 20 most polluted metropolitan areas are:

Los Angeles-Riverside-Orange County, Calif. Fresno, Calif. Bakersfield, Calif. Visalia-Tulare-Porterville, Calif. Houston-Galveston-Brazoria, Texas Sacramento-Yolo, Calif. Merced, Calif. Atlanta, Ga. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Knoxville, Tenn. Charlotte-Gastonia-Rock Hill, N.C.-S.C. Washington-Baltimore, D.C.-Md.-Va.-W.V. Dallas-Ft. Worth, Texas Philadelphia-Wilmington-Atlantic City, Pa.-N.J.-Del.-Md. New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, Conn.-N.J.-N.Y. Phoenix-Mesa, Ariz. Baton Rogue, La. Greensboro-Winston Salem-High Point, N.C. Memphis, Tenn.-Ark.-Miss. Birmingham, Ala. San Diego, Calif.

gabossie
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lol.... welcome to California

natsoundup
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In Greenville South Carolina, we complain about the smog that is blowing here via Knoxville from the west and Atlanta from the south.

greg_atlanta
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Car: 2008 G35 Journey Sedan, silver/black (no sunroof), 1992 Q45 (in a past life)

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It's nice to see that cars are getting cleaner and cleaner every year. If I put off a new car purchase for a few years I'll end up with a cleaner car. I only drive 20-30 miles per day in the Q, less in the summer with no A/C. :)

It's 90 degrees and sunny today in Atlanta, normally prime smog conditions... but the air has gotten cleaner as the day has gone by (smog normally peaks at 7 or 8 pm). 10+ mile visibility today, maybe 3 mile visibility yesterday. Funny how that works.....

I'd love to see cars and trucks get pulled over and towed for obvious tailpipe emissions problems!! (Plenty of ways to get around emissions inspections)

squeefoo
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Car: 1990 Infiniti Q45
1994 Nissan Maxima SE
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2003 Nissan Maxima Titanium
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2012 Infiniti G37x S

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greg_atlanta wrote:
I'd love to see cars and trucks get pulled over and towed for obvious tailpipe emissions problems!! (Plenty of ways to get around emissions inspections)
Yes, we need more government, so we can be just like the Euro zone who pay 60% and rising, of GDP in gov't fealty. What's wrong with market forces taking care of it (if it is an actual problem)? Is there a problem gov't can't solve? They do so well at everything as I'm sure we have all noticed. Sure sounds like you support waiving your 4th amendment rights so the cops (or whoever!) can go through your car and possessions whenever they "see" "obvious" problems with your vehicle. We are all being strangled here (not by smog), and looking to government is the worst thing to do as well as begging the cops for even more intrusion. I think you'll probably get your wish, AND regret it.

NISTECH
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yea sacramento is up there on that list and I get to breath it daily. summer time is the worse around here for smog. at times breathing can be difficult, I came from an area almost free from smog and had no signs of allergies at all. with in 2 yrs I started noticing alergy type symptoms during the summer kinda like astma symptoms[breathing instances]. I had lived in the northern San Fransico bay area prior ,Rohnert Park to be exact. We had little smog EVER.

In california the smog program is actually broken up into zones by zip code. These zones were determined by pollution levels in that area. The 3 zones are as follows:change of ownership[ you only get your car smogged when selling it]

Basic area [ you get your car smog tested upon registartion every 2 yrs, with a TSI test( Two Speed Idle) no dyno test,NOx not measured]

Enhanced area [ you get your car smog tested upon registration every 2 yrs, with a ASM test (Acceleration Simulation Mode) on a dyno and all gases measured in the basic test + NOx is tested.

Until last year the SF bay area was a basic area. They had determined that a large portion of the emissions in the Sacramento valley was due to onshore breezes blowing the pollution from the bay area into the valley and it collected here at the base of the sierra nevada mountain range[sac valley]. Now the bay area is also an enhanced area. I believe they realized this was happening when they had the fire strom in oakland a few years ago and the sac valley had filled with smoke from that fire and it lingered for days. I remember that incedent well personnally as I was returning from a road trip to oregon and when approaching the valley on I5 I though the entire valley had gone up in flames the smoke was so thick and filed the horizon.

The population in this area does not justify the amount of smog in this area. The population on the valley floor is very sparse compared to that of the bay area. We have little noticable traffic congestion around this area, nothing like that of LA or SF.Next time you see sac on that list think the open ranges of kansas cause thats what its like around here. Not heavy population.

On another evironmentally unfriendly note I learned something back in the early 90's in a heating and air conditioning class about governmental injustice. It involves the harmful ingrediants in R-12 which they cut the use of in 93. It was cut becuase of a hole that is being eaten in the upper atmosphere. During this class we were informed that sthe same harmful ingredients in R-12 is also used by the space shuttle and that each time that thing is/was launched it was the equivelant of opening 50,000 automobile R-12 air conditioning systems to the automosphere.Nice huh? Glad they cut the use of it :rolleyes

greg_atlanta
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from NYTimes yesterday.... 3rd paragraph should be of interest to anyone in SoCal

A Far-Reaching Fire Makes a Point About PollutionBy ANDREW C. REVKIN

Published: July 27, 2004

In 1859, the American oceanographer Matthew Fontaine Maury, one of the first scientists to describe Earth's seas and skies as integrated systems, wrote, "It is only the girdling encircling air, that flows above and around all, that makes the whole world kin."

Last week, a pair of globe-scanning NASA satellites, Terra and Aqua, reinforced that notion as they tracked the sooty remains of fire-swept Alaskan black spruce forests wafting high over coastal Louisiana and beyond.

Such measurements have increasingly been showing how pollution that was once perceived as local is, at least in part, global. By 2010, for example, scientists project that a third of the smog-forming ozone in California air will originate in the booming economies of Asia.

In this case, the link between the Far North and the Deep South started with fire-friendly conditions in Alaska. This has been one of the worst fire seasons in the state since 1950, when officials first started keeping records, with nearly four million acres burned in 492 fires so far - more than half started by people and the rest by lightning.

The moist air that usually starts sweeping in from the Bering Sea by mid-July is absent, officials said, keeping forests vulnerable. And there has been ample lightning, with some 8,000 ground strikes estimated in a two-day stretch last week, said Gil Knight, a spokesman for the Alaska Fire Service.

The emissions from all that combustion took an unusual path. A week ago, the atmosphere over North America was in a pattern more typical of winter, with high pressure sitting over the West and low pressure running from Hudson Bay nearly to the Gulf of Mexico, said Scott Stephens, a meteorologist at the Commerce Department's National Climatic Data Center in Asheville, N.C.

This sent the jet stream, essentially a speeding river of high-altitude air, veering far south of its normal Canada-spanning path, and the Alaskan smoke went along for the ride, at 100 miles an hour.

"The smoke plumes just rode that all the way down through the Mississippi Valley," Mr. Stephens said.

That was only the first leg of the journey, though.

The same satellites that recorded the smoke flowing over the Big Easy on July 19, picked it up on July 21, as winds carried it past New York City and New England, where local weather forecasters noted a milky haze.

And the smoke has wandered even farther than that. Veils from the fires were recorded heading toward Greenland, carried by air currents high in the Arctic.

squeefoo
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And it just stays up there forever ????? !!!!We're DOOOOOOOOOOMMMED !!!!!

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atlanta_shooter
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Feel guilty...very very guilty...j/k. What kills me about so many "environmentalists", is they drive around in old Hondas/Toyotas, etc. with low tire pressures, infrequent oil changes (you can tell by the blue smoke from the worn rings), probably never had plugs changed, air filter, etc. they can be a worse offender than a gas sucking Hummer.

BTW...I totally disagree with your position in another thread about increasing the gas tax in GA...let the free market reign!!!


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