short blocks from flatlander racing

[fiznat]

Hey guys, I've got a high mileage (154,000) 92 S13, and I still would like to turbocharge it soon. I'm at least semi realistic though, and I know that my engine will need a rebuild and some careful attention to make sure it doesnt go pop on me. I was looking around, and the shortblocks available at flatlander racing (http://www.importperformancepa....html) for $583 look like a pretty good option instead of trying to rebuild an older engine. Why not just buy the short block, which arrives "machined and assembled with over-sized pistons, rings, matching crank kit, [and] connecting rods?"

Anyone with any experience with this that might point me in the right direction?

[Pornflakes]

Hey guys, I've got a high mileage (154,000) 92 S13, and I still would like to turbocharge it soon. I'm at least semi realistic though, and I know that my engine will need a rebuild and some careful attention to make sure it doesnt go pop on me. I was looking around, and the shortblocks available at flatlander racing (http://www.importperformancepa....html) for $583 look like a pretty good option instead of trying to rebuild an older engine. Why not just buy the short block, which arrives "machined and assembled with over-sized pistons, rings, matching crank kit, [and] connecting rods?"

Anyone with any experience with this that might point me in the right direction?

These short blocks are rebuilt with OEM pistons and OEM everything else. They probably won't hold up more boost than your current engine can right now.

Besides that, the only thing that's new in those short blocks are the rings and pistons (if that). Everything else is probably cleaned, prepared, and reused.

If you're going to have the engine out for re-building, you should invest in some forged pistons at least if you're planning on turbocharging

[fiznat]

hmm, I didnt think it was OEM since it says "oversized pistons..." unless theyre oversised OEM pistons, which doesnt seem possible. I figure I could add in a little extra money and get some quality pistons and rods swapped in, and get the package all together at a good deal with a fresh block and a strong lower end.

Of course stock pistons wont do, but a refab block overbored with specifically fit pistons doesnt seem that bad of an idea. Anyone else have any opinions on this?

[Pornflakes]

hmm, I didnt think it was OEM since it says "oversized pistons..." unless theyre oversised OEM pistons, which doesnt seem possible. I figure I could add in a little extra money and get some quality pistons and rods swapped in, and get the package all together at a good deal with a fresh block and a strong lower end.

Of course stock pistons wont do, but a refab block overbored with specifically fit pistons doesnt seem that bad of an idea. Anyone else have any opinions on this?

There are two oversized OEM Nissan pistons available. 0.5mm oversized for the first rebuild, and 1.0mm oversized should you need a second rebuild.

Most machine shops will rebuild a short block for you for $500 provided you supply the pistons and rods. This price usually includes boring, honing, bearings, prepping the crank, and balancing the complete rotating mass.

I would like to add just FYI: A block bored for 0.5mm oversized OEM pistons cannot accomodate 0.5mm oversized forged pistons readily. Forged pistons need more piston to wall clearance, and thus a slightly larger bore, due to the fact that they expand more than the cast OEM ones.

[Nathan]

Another thing to think about is forged rods...in my mind the stock ones are not too terribly strong and neither are the pistons. I'd figure on spending an easy thousand to have the engine rebuilt with some decent forged internals...and that's if you do some of the work yourself.

[fiznat]

There are two oversized OEM Nissan pistons available. 0.5mm oversized for the first rebuild, and 1.0mm oversized should you need a second rebuild.

Heh true, I didnt even think of that. :oface

Quote »Most machine shops will rebuild a short block for you for $500 provided you supply the pistons and rods. This price usually includes boring, honing, bearings, prepping the crank, and balancing the complete rotating mass.[/quote]

Hmmm thats not *too* bad of a price I guess. I suppose the most important question I have, then, is if my engine currently has 150,000 miles on it, what do I need to worry about going (breaking) when I eventually turbocharge it? Why is a rebuild necessary if I just add in stock-sized beefed up pistons and rods? I understand that I'll need new gaskets and a few other wear items, but what benefits can be seen from a short block rebuild? All in all, should I spend money on a short block rebuild or just buy the better pistons and rods with a quality gasket/rebuild kit and let 'er rip?

Quote »I would like to add just FYI: A block bored for 0.5mm oversized OEM pistons cannot accomodate 0.5mm oversized forged pistons readily. Forged pistons need more piston to wall clearance, and thus a slightly larger bore, due to the fact that they expand more than the cast OEM ones. [/quote]

So does this mean that I HAVE to get my block bored to fit new pistons if I buy them? ...Or can I just buy smaller-sized pistons to begin with, in anticipation that they'll expand more to take up the slack?

Please help me out here.. I know a lot about turbochargers right now, but obviously not enough about the fundamentals of engine mechanics to make it work just yet. Go easy on me!

[Pornflakes]

Hmmm thats not *too* bad of a price I guess. I suppose the most important question I have, then, is if my engine currently has 150,000 miles on it, what do I need to worry about going (breaking) when I eventually turbocharge it? Why is a rebuild necessary if I just add in stock-sized beefed up pistons and rods? I understand that I'll need new gaskets and a few other wear items, but what benefits can be seen from a short block rebuild? All in all, should I spend money on a short block rebuild or just buy the better pistons and rods with a quality gasket/rebuild kit and let 'er rip?

The stock pistons are very weak, and will eventually need replacement if you wish to increase boost. Else, they'll break.

Stock-sized beefed up (forged) pistons will not work without honing the block to the clearance needed (piston to wall). Stock pistons need a clearance of around 0.001", and forged ones will need a clearance of around 0.004" and higher.Quote »So does this mean that I HAVE to get my block bored to fit new pistons if I buy them? ...Or can I just buy smaller-sized pistons to begin with, in anticipation that they'll expand more to take up the slack? [/quote]You cannot buy smaller pistons and put them in either. The extra clearance needed that I'm talking about due to expansion is around 0.004" You can't buy pistons 0.004" smaller than normal. What you do if you have pistons of 3.5" diameter for example is; you bore to 3.475" lets say, and then hone the block to 3.504" for the clearance.

[cnichols]

IMO, if you're building your motor, you should get forged pistons AND get them coated (skirts too). This will allow tighter clearances and also should improve the life of the motor by keeping heat down and friction to a minimum.

The new TURBO mag has a pretty good, but brief article on some of the high-temp and low friction coatings available from Swain Tech and other reputable companies. I would also recommend the rod bearings be coated too which seems to be a problem area with high HP KA-Ts.

[fiznat]

hmmm okay... so basically I need to spend a ton of money... hahah I knew it!

Let me break it down for myself if you dont mind... correct me if I'm wrong:

1. If I'm gonna turbo my motor at this mileage, I really should at least give it a rebuild.

2. If I'm gonna have the engine apart for a rebuild, I might as well account for the boost I know I'm going to want to add, and install aftermarket pistons and rods (and "coat" them...)

3. In order to make the pistons fit, I'm gonna have to get my block bored and honed for exact fit. At this point I might as well have the crank balanced and the head ported?

---more questions----

4. When I'm putting the engine back together, I should use better head studs and possibly a metal headgasket. Perhaps better motor mounts as well? What else should I plan to add at this stage? (note that I'm aiming for about 275-300 horsepower on a daily driven car with maximum reliablity, and I know about the things that the turbo needs... I'm just talking about parts needed for engine stability and strength)

5. After I do all this work, will my car be driveable before adding the turbo? I imagine that I will be able to pay for all of this work/parts at once, and then have to save up again for the turbo parts. What kind of differences will I see with the lowered compression, porting, etc. Is it bad for my car to run it in this stage?

6. Should I be thinking about any other engine components that might be extra stressed by their age and the addition of the turbo? What about fans and coolant systems and ignition? Can all this remain the same, or will the extra stressors I'm adding "push them over the edge?"

Please forgive the newb-ish nature of my questions... if anybody knows of a good recource that effectivly describes pre-turbo engine building, I'd really appreciate it if you could post the link or whatever...

Please take another few minutes to look over my questions.... I want to learn as much as possible before I even think about diving into this!

[WDRacing]

There are a few ways to go about this Fiznat. One is to get forged internals. Which is a great way to start a forced induction motor build up. To use forged pistons doesn't nesasarily mean you need to have the block over bored. You can probably get away with a nice cylinder hone. I've done this on a RB20 block that was over boosted for 30,000 miles of its last 190,000. After which she was running a steady 25 psi of boost on a daily basis. So don't assume you need to have the block all reworked.

The best thing to do is a compression test on your motor. For all you know, your motor could be running just fine. This will enable you to buy a turbine kit and slap it on. If you are worried about your bearings and internals failing do to mileage and age then start saving up. But you can always drive around with your current setup till it suffers some kind of problem then do a rebuild or simply swap out a new motor. Hell, go to the junkyard and work over a used motor urself and save some erious cash. Then once the new block is ready to go in, you can overboost your current engine to see how much she'll take till she pops. I've done this method a few times myself. You'd be surprised how much power you make when your running on the edge of severe detonation.

PS, no questions are stupid...well, unless you ask if you can put VTEC cams into your head err somthing.

WD

[fiznat]

lol ok I know you warned not to bump all these old threads but damn I was such a newb back then!! Almost 2 years later and look at me now-- my very own built KAT as my signiture pic and I'm one of the people giving advice to other people now. Thanks for helping me out so much NICO, I'm amazed no-one told me to search! I <3 you guys XOXOXOXO

[N.O. Accorderz]

wow post made in 03 hahaha comming along nicely ey

[12valveturbo]

I know this is old but if someone does a search I want them to know the stock rods are forged and take plenty of abuse with oil and good tune of course

[Projex240]

you dont need forged rods, the stock rods can hold up just fine. They are forged factorya nwya. Just have the re-shotpeened, and use forged pistons. Bling--you have one tough motor.

-Josh