Alright, this is about my situation from the start with a shop. My 1990 240 is getting a 1995 ka24de put in. Everything is set, all parts are accounted for. I purchased an ECU (the correct one) for it as well. I did not get a hold of a wiring harness. I told the shop I needed the wiring harness from a dohc s13 years 91-93. I also told them that they NEEDED to change the distributor, intake manifold, maf, and ecu over to match. (thanks nico memebers for the info) Well, they have decided to NOT take my written down, SPECIFIED preocedure on doing this, and put in the 95 straight and ruined the first wiring harness by mixing and matching it with the SOHC one for God knows what fuc/< ing reason. They DID NOT change the manifold, distributor, use my ecu or MAF. They bought an sohc ECU( WHICH I HAD ALREADY AND WAS UNNECCESSARY, and by all means useless!!) that was water logged, and another wiring harness that ne spliced to pieces. He doesn't know why its not running!!!! I told him specifically what had to be done, they DID NOT DO IT. So now, here I sit 9, count it NINE days into this and still have no running car. Heres my problem:
The shop is staying on their $250 for labor. That isn't going to be adjusted at all. Now they're trying to charge me for the water logged ecu (That I didn't need because I provided one, THE CORRECT ONE the first time) the wiring harness that he cut up (because they paid "hard money for it, so I must share the cost" and another computer, THAT STILL ISNT NECESSARY, and another wiring harness, that I dont mind paying for because this one wasn't ruined. Yet. Please don't go and tell me that I picked bad people, blah blah blah, don't give me the F-ed in the A speech. I just want my car running and don't want to pay for the Bulls**it that they used and ruined. Can anyone help me out, PLEASE!?!!
Oh, and they think the original sohc one will work. Yeah....
Shop Troubles
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hugh lawson
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:04 pm
at least your better off than me. i gave the shop $3200 for a 98 engine and transmission into a 89, on june 10th. its now august 6. they never called me i had to go there 3 times in person just to here they got the motor and that it will take some time to get to start on it. total for swap $4000. i shopped around same price. thats hawaii for ya.
At this point, you better take your car to a shop who knows what they are doing. As for the $250 labor, is that all they charged you?! That's a great freakin deal. My mechanic charges me $60 AN HOUR for labor, and that's a discount rate because I've been taking my cars to him for nearly 10 years.
As you're in the process of learning, you get what you pay for in the automotive repair industry. You have very little leverage over the shop. I know plenty of shops that would tell you to F-off right about now. Do you have any idea how many other, much more simple projects they could have done in the last 9 days? Do you know how much more they would have made off of a bunch of simple projects, than your $250 engine swap?
I bet you the mechanic thinks that you're a punk for coming in there with all sorts of instructions and telling him how to do his job. Granted, you do have some justification to be a bit upset because you were willing to provide him with instructions on how to do it. Yet on the other side of the coin, I bet you that he's thinking to himself, "If the kid is so freakin smart, why the hell didn't he just do the job himself in the first place?"
As you're in the process of learning, you get what you pay for in the automotive repair industry. You have very little leverage over the shop. I know plenty of shops that would tell you to F-off right about now. Do you have any idea how many other, much more simple projects they could have done in the last 9 days? Do you know how much more they would have made off of a bunch of simple projects, than your $250 engine swap?
I bet you the mechanic thinks that you're a punk for coming in there with all sorts of instructions and telling him how to do his job. Granted, you do have some justification to be a bit upset because you were willing to provide him with instructions on how to do it. Yet on the other side of the coin, I bet you that he's thinking to himself, "If the kid is so freakin smart, why the hell didn't he just do the job himself in the first place?"
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frapjap
- Posts: 13175
- Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:46 pm
- Car: '99 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
'07 Subaru Legacy - Location: South Coast Massachusetts
Yes, I could agree with the statement that there would be plenty of places that would tell me to F off right about now, but if the place wasn't capable of doing the swap, let alone making mine their FRIST swap without mentioning that fact to me until an hour ago. The could have given me a heads up on the duration instead of telling me, it will be done on friday, oh its looking like sunday night/monday morning, try coming in on wednesday. Sure I understand and respect that these things take time to accomplish, and time is what I didn't have for for the car, otherwise I would have done it with a friend and rented a cherry picker. I haven't a problem with them, I'm pretty damn patient; but when it comes to the shop purchasing and then ruining the parts because of inexperience, a line can be drawn. I don't mean to offend you or anyone else who reads the post, I was only asking for another suggestion to politely say, Look I know you're trying and doing all you can, but please, this needs to get done. I am moving this Thursday, starting starting a new job that friday, and have no car to do either of these things. The money wasn't the issue, not so much was the time, just that they haven't decided to do the most basic things.
sounds like they *****ed up and want you to pay for it.
make sure the instructions were 100% correct.
if they will not accept responsibilty for the ruined harness do not let them complete the work. explain the situation to a more experienced mechanic who can inspect the car provide an estimate and complete the work at a reasonable rate not $250. Arrange towing. You need to figure out how to get your car out of the shop and fixed while losing as little $$$ as possible.
Dont get emotional. You're going to lose money time or both. $250 is a very low rate be reasonable. they got in over their heads. concentrate on limiting the losses and getting the car running.
make copies of everything you have in writing. estimates receipts instructions etc. you need to document everything from this point on.
if they did not use the correct ecu when already specified they have no legal right to ask you to absorb the loss. if they were unsure of the wiring diagrams they should not have proceeded without contacting you. remind them of this. totally unprofessional. go to the shop in person with a willing witness. reiterate your initial agreement. be specific eliminate vague information. request all parts you own. request copies of the invoices for the ruined parts they purchased.
prepare a polite sarcasm free letter specifying whatever contractual obligations can be verified in writing refer to your phone and in person conversations. list specific details. reiterate your initial contract and request an immediate written response confirming it. send the letter via certified mail keeping a copy for yourself. the goal is to limit your loss and avoid litigation. the best way to avoid litigation is to prepare for it. once they see you are preparing for litigation they will distance themselves from the situation by returning your property intact. pay them nothing.
make sure the instructions were 100% correct.
if they will not accept responsibilty for the ruined harness do not let them complete the work. explain the situation to a more experienced mechanic who can inspect the car provide an estimate and complete the work at a reasonable rate not $250. Arrange towing. You need to figure out how to get your car out of the shop and fixed while losing as little $$$ as possible.
Dont get emotional. You're going to lose money time or both. $250 is a very low rate be reasonable. they got in over their heads. concentrate on limiting the losses and getting the car running.
make copies of everything you have in writing. estimates receipts instructions etc. you need to document everything from this point on.
if they did not use the correct ecu when already specified they have no legal right to ask you to absorb the loss. if they were unsure of the wiring diagrams they should not have proceeded without contacting you. remind them of this. totally unprofessional. go to the shop in person with a willing witness. reiterate your initial agreement. be specific eliminate vague information. request all parts you own. request copies of the invoices for the ruined parts they purchased.
prepare a polite sarcasm free letter specifying whatever contractual obligations can be verified in writing refer to your phone and in person conversations. list specific details. reiterate your initial contract and request an immediate written response confirming it. send the letter via certified mail keeping a copy for yourself. the goal is to limit your loss and avoid litigation. the best way to avoid litigation is to prepare for it. once they see you are preparing for litigation they will distance themselves from the situation by returning your property intact. pay them nothing.
this is a post i lifted I know its more involved than this. post your instructions.
95 DOHC into 90
Mechanically it all bolts up no problems.Here are the main differences:
Mechanical:Power steering - different between SOHC (pass. side) and DOHC (driver side). To swap, you need the DOHC power steering lines, reservoir, and hoses.Intake - different shape, so can't swap thatThrottle cable - SOHC too short to reach DOHC throttle body best to get a DOHC cable.A/C is a different compressor entirely, though in about the same position. To make a DOHC compressor work with a SOHC system, you'll need to have a specialty shop custom fit the DOHC lines to your SOHC system. No, the DOHC lines do not just bolt to the firewall fittings, they are different sizes. Also, SOHC systems used R12 refrigerant, now illegal. You'll need to convert to R134, which means a system flush and new drier.Ignition - I understand the '91-'94(?) sytems use a different coil, but not entirely sure. The '95+ systems don't have an external coil, so not an issue there.
Electrical - SOHC systems and DOHC systems are somewhat different in the wire routing, primarily the power/fuse wiring for the ECU (at least for the '95 vs '90 systems), but also some sensors and inputs for the OBD, tach, speedo. It's not really a big deal if 1) you have the FSM (wiring diagrams) for both the SOHC and donor DOHC systems, and 2) you can read and understand the wiring diagrams. Then its a matter of identifying the differences, and cutting/splicing the DOHC harness to match the SOHC systems. The harness plugs that connect to the engine room and dashboard harnesses are different, so you have to cut to SOHC plugs and splice them into the DOHC harness. Takes a little time and you have to do it right, but like I said, not bad if you have a bit of understanding about how electrical systems work.
Also, you need a DOHC tach as the SOHC tach will not work.
Obviously you also need the DOHC computer.
You may have to change the transmission harness a bit to make it mate up, but that's minor (for the '95, I had to wire in the 2nd O2 sensor and crankshaft position sensor, no big deal).
95 DOHC into 90
Mechanically it all bolts up no problems.Here are the main differences:
Mechanical:Power steering - different between SOHC (pass. side) and DOHC (driver side). To swap, you need the DOHC power steering lines, reservoir, and hoses.Intake - different shape, so can't swap thatThrottle cable - SOHC too short to reach DOHC throttle body best to get a DOHC cable.A/C is a different compressor entirely, though in about the same position. To make a DOHC compressor work with a SOHC system, you'll need to have a specialty shop custom fit the DOHC lines to your SOHC system. No, the DOHC lines do not just bolt to the firewall fittings, they are different sizes. Also, SOHC systems used R12 refrigerant, now illegal. You'll need to convert to R134, which means a system flush and new drier.Ignition - I understand the '91-'94(?) sytems use a different coil, but not entirely sure. The '95+ systems don't have an external coil, so not an issue there.
Electrical - SOHC systems and DOHC systems are somewhat different in the wire routing, primarily the power/fuse wiring for the ECU (at least for the '95 vs '90 systems), but also some sensors and inputs for the OBD, tach, speedo. It's not really a big deal if 1) you have the FSM (wiring diagrams) for both the SOHC and donor DOHC systems, and 2) you can read and understand the wiring diagrams. Then its a matter of identifying the differences, and cutting/splicing the DOHC harness to match the SOHC systems. The harness plugs that connect to the engine room and dashboard harnesses are different, so you have to cut to SOHC plugs and splice them into the DOHC harness. Takes a little time and you have to do it right, but like I said, not bad if you have a bit of understanding about how electrical systems work.
Also, you need a DOHC tach as the SOHC tach will not work.
Obviously you also need the DOHC computer.
You may have to change the transmission harness a bit to make it mate up, but that's minor (for the '95, I had to wire in the 2nd O2 sensor and crankshaft position sensor, no big deal).
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frapjap
- Posts: 13175
- Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:46 pm
- Car: '99 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
'07 Subaru Legacy - Location: South Coast Massachusetts
My instructions as per what I gave them: Parts to use that I acquired from parts motor: Distributor Intake manifold, gasket Ecu A/C compressor, change lines and use proper refrigerant Power Steering Pump Parts I don't have but need to be acquired: Wiring harness from 91-93 240sx A/C lines and P/S lines Throttle Cable from dohc engine
Wiring: MUST use end of SOHC harness and sauter respective lines to the DOHC wiring harness from the engine to the dash/gauges. Yellow / Red stripe Tachometer signal Yellow / Green stripe Speedometer signal Orange Ignition start Black Ground Blue / Green stripe AC signal Blue / Black stripe Water temp signal I left the gauge cluster out because I really didn't want them to take apart my dash. I could manage that on my own time. Thanks for the help you've been thus far, I really appreciate it.
Wiring: MUST use end of SOHC harness and sauter respective lines to the DOHC wiring harness from the engine to the dash/gauges. Yellow / Red stripe Tachometer signal Yellow / Green stripe Speedometer signal Orange Ignition start Black Ground Blue / Green stripe AC signal Blue / Black stripe Water temp signal I left the gauge cluster out because I really didn't want them to take apart my dash. I could manage that on my own time. Thanks for the help you've been thus far, I really appreciate it.