shaking while braking??

Post by **flipchino** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

i have noticed that while coming off a freeway and braking(braking from high speeds), the steering wheel starts to shake and jutter...i asked a mechanic and he said that it is possibly the brake rotars? if anyone has any idea whats going on i will greatly appreciate it... thanks..i drive a 91 240sx le

Post by **corn322** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

most likely brake rotors are warped. get them shaved, it will fix the problem 'till you warp them again

Post by **[Zero-S]** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

My thoughts exactly...mine does this too:(.

Post by **GELLIS2586** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

So does mine and its between 20 and 50 bucks per rotor to re machine them.

Post by **89240sx** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

you could buy some from autozone for that price probably

Post by **trpower7** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

Exactly. Get them turned, get some new ones, either way it'll fix your problem

Post by **Dragon240** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

at 50 you can get slot/x-drilled almost

Post by **Godzillarb26dett** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

Partly the problem may be the rotors that need ot be replaced its also due to teh high speed that your were traveling.....the stock 240sx brakes are no desinged for that much stopping power so the car tends to losse stability and sometimes shake when trying to brake from high speeds...absically what im saying upgrade ur brakes and rotors...or just slow down.....

Post by **flipchino** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

does anyone know a good site that i can buy some good brake rotors for a 240sx?

Post by **SmithSR** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

Eh, WHAT!?!

To Flipchino, brake rotor warpage is a COMMON sign of wear. If a rotor becomes too hot, it can warp. If a rotor is nearing minimum thickness, meaning it is nearly worn out...it cannot disperse heat efficiently....it will get too hot and...you guessed it...warp.

Godzillarb is dead wrong when he says "240sx brakes are not designed for that much stopping power." That is a horrible display of misinformation!! Unless Godzilla knows something that Nissan engineers don't!!! Godzilla, believe it or not, brakes are supposed to slow Nissans down from freeway speeds!! How do you stop your car, Godzilla??

Over the years, I have seen thousands of cars come into our shop with brake trouble. One common complaint is "pulsation when applying the brakes."--rotors are warped.

There are two choices to fix the problem: Replace rotor, orHave rotor resurfaced(assuming they are still within spec thickness) at a shop you trust. (pull your own rotors off, take them in, no more than $20 fee):D

There is no need for slotted/cross-drilled rotors in a daily driven 240 with otherwise factory brake components. There ARE tests which suggest that slotted rotors disperse gas generated from braking, but what you never hear about is how those same slots literally act as a razor sharp shear on your <OEM compound> brake pads....causing them to wear out prematurely(sometimes cutting pad life in HALF).....NEGATING ANY false illusion of "performance" braking, when you have to replace pads in 10K mile intervals. Soon, you'll be paying out the nose for a counter-productive modification.

Please, leave the misinformation to the Import Tuner magazines; they do a good enough job polluting minds and giving bad ideas to kids everywhere.

-Phil

Post by **[Zero-S]** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

Quote »Godzillarb is dead wrong when he says "240sx brakes are not designed for that much stopping power." That is a horrible display of misinformation!! Unless Godzilla knows something that Nissan engineers don't!!! Godzilla, believe it or not, brakes are supposed to slow Nissans down from freeway speeds!! How do you stop your car, Godzilla??[/quote]He downshifts like a cool kid :rolleyes.

Post by **toki** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

it would be more hilarious if he pulled a me and went 5-2 and went spinning merrily down the highway.

Post by **SmithSR** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

Flipchino, you don't need a website to sell you rotors. There are probably many parts stores/parts houses in your area that carry OEM-grade rotors. It's really all you need. The reason you had a shaking problem with this set is they are probably nearly worn to minimum thickness, and likely need replacing anyway.

Tip: OEM grade rotors are less expensive and will provide consistent stopping character for more miles/years than "performance" brands.

Post by **Godzillarb26dett** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

The stock brakes were designed to stop the car in normal driving conditions......drving a bone stock 240sx to the limits is not normal driving.....the brakes are not designed for that......and im not sure what exact model you have but im sure you are also without ABS....and trust me from experience the brakes will lock very quickly.....so as i said before your best bet would be to upgrade better rotors, calipers, and pads.....always use organic and not mettalic most people dont know that they will ruin the rotors.....im not posting to try and be immature like some of the people posting im just trying to help you.....bottom line to any of you drive your 240 to the max 118mph or however you speed is regulated....slam on the brakes and see if the car does not shake

Post by **rousie13** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

I bet your rotors aren't nearly as bad as one set I saw at work. We all know how they there are two sides to the rotor with the ribbing in the middle. Well this one ladies' rotors didn't look like that, but just had a very thin piece of flat metal. She had been riding around with no brake pad and it chewed threw the rotor. We figured if she kept them on for a few more weeks, the rotor would have just completely shattered and bye bye brakes. I love how people neglect there cars and complain when it costs them 5X more than it would have with regular maintenance. Yeah, I don't know where I was going with this, but do your regular maintenance and don't put off doing stuff like changing brake pads and rotors.

Website · Post by **TurboKA37** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

im going to do a 300zx brake upgrade soon and i am going to buy some aftermarket rotors. i was thinking the brembo X-drilled and slotted but now i think i may just go with some oems. this is a daily driver and im going to be putting some power down in the future(at least 250). is this a good choice?

Post by **89240sx** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

I'd say go with OEM ... especially if you are converting it later and especially since its a daily driver...

Post by **Godzillarb26dett** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

TurboKA at thsi point in time with low horse power you really dont have to go all out and try and upgrade to brembo....the 300zx tt brakes is a good move....i have done this in teh pst adn i was pleased with the results and worked quite well with the horse power that you are planing to have (230-250 hp) correct me if im wrong but let me know what you are doing......ive also gone to the skyline brakes on a 300zx that i use to own

Post by **Godzillarb26dett** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

One more thing to add to the smart guy who told me that i was wrong.....thanks for proving my point......the brakes are not dsigned for extreme driving conditions....thats why as you said the rotors over heat and warp...they over heat from driving fast and braking.....and as i said you should go with an upgrade and take it easy on the stock brakes....or you can have some horror stories like the ones already posted lol

Post by **slip** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

118 is not extreme driving conditions,and if you noticed he said coming off the highway at high speed not extreme speed,and flpchino if your rotors are turnable(within specs)stay away from the parts store turners,your best bet is to find a good machine shop to turn your rotors.you will be much better off some one who doesnt know how to turn a rotor properly can make them worse. and lets face it most off the guys at autozone cant even give you the right part without looking it up on the computor and asking you two to three times,what kind off car was that again?

Post by **SWIFT_DRIFT** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

Godzillarb26dett wrote:.....bottom line to any of you drive your 240 to the max 118mph or however you speed is regulated....slam on the brakes and see if the car does not shake

Hey muffin! My 97's limiter is removed and I can hit 145 easily. No shaking while stopping for me on oem spec rotars/pads. It makes sense to me that Nissan would make brakes designed to match the cars peformance....:rolleyes

Post by **skydragoness** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

ahflipchino never stated the speed he was traveling at, it could of been normal highway speeds. rotors could be the main cause of the steering wheel shimmy.BUTi would also inspect your tension rods and inner/outer tie rod ends. when the bushings on the tension rods (or t/c rods as they call 'em too) crack, they ooze out goo that rusts up on the metal parts. when those components go bad they produce symptoms much like brake warpage. take a look under your car.

also, i've heard that using a torque wrench when putting on your wheels and re-torquing after 50 miles reduces rotor warpage.

and for rotor choice, brembo make some affordable OE rotors.

Post by **SmithSR** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

Godzillarb26dett wrote:One more thing to add to the smart guy who told me that i was wrong.....thanks for proving my point......the brakes are not dsigned for extreme driving conditions....thats why as you said the rotors over heat and warp...they over heat from driving fast and braking.....and as i said you should go with an upgrade and take it easy on the stock brakes....or you can have some horror stories like the ones already posted lol

\

Godzilla, your comments reveal that you have not worked in the automotive repair industry....specifically, dealing with brake repair. Also, the points I brought up were not previously mentioned by you....how is it that you claim I proved your point for you? You talk about "at the limit driving", the rest of us are generally discussing the comments made in the original post. The post clearly states that his car shakes when braking from freeway speeds, and you've spun this into some discussion about poor OEM quality. You still haven't told me what you know that Nissan R&D department doesn't.

Brakes CAN and WILL slow/stop the car. Brakes generate a great deal of heat, some of which cannot be dissipated quickly enough(the older, the harder it becomes to effectively cool), and this can cause a warping of the rotor. What you aren't seeing is the fact that I can/have driven many cars(most high end/exotics excluded) and heated the brakes to the point of fade, and over enough time...warping. Even a 240. Even a Z32. Even Z32 brakes on a 240. Even a Z06!

Brakes fade because of heat. They also warp from extreme heat. ANY automobile, with it's mass, be it heavy or lightweight, WILL overheat a brake system if driven at the car's limits for long enough. NO NEWS THERE, sunshine.

Post by **SmithSR** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

Godzillarb26dett wrote:TurboKA at thsi point in time with low horse power you really dont have to go all out and try and upgrade to brembo....the 300zx tt brakes is a good move....

One more thing, sunshine. A car's brake system is not, I repeat NOT determined by engine's power output. Sick of seeing people saying "do this, based on engine power numbers." Bogus!

Meaning, Nissan does not sit down and say, "oh gosh, how much power will the engine produce? because then we must fit brakes to slow down the car with high horsepower output??" No, what they did take into account is how much the car weighed, what speeds it will attain, and how much money it will cost to fit an applicable braking system.

MASS, weight, roll center, combined with a given project budget are determining factors in what brake systems are fitted to what cars. Not the available horsepower. What engineers DO ask themselves is "how can we efficiently slow X amount of weight down from X speed consistently, and do it within our budget?"

There <is> a relation that we can see in today's performance cars between a powerful car that handles well and it's braking ability, but to assume that the reason you upgrade your brake system because you are upping power output is bogus...intellectually sloppy argument. I've seen many people use the statement that if you're upping power, better improve braking. People fail to understand why they need to upgrade the brakes. It's not because of increased power output, or removal of limiter...which will net you greater MPH....but still negligible speed gain when considering that the amount of time spent braking is all that matters in this case. The reason you upgrade your brakes is to improve braking response/stop quicker. The ability of the car to slow down from a given speed depends on the braking system, not the engine output.

Godzilla, I can overheat a Z32 braking system just as quickly as I can a 240 brake setup. So could you.

Power output is an altogether seperate function from braking. Braking is the attempt to slow the car. The lighter(less MASS) the car, the less work the brakes do to slow the car. Clearly, an upgraded brake system will improve braking response, but it's still damn foolish for people to give the reason to upgrade the brakes "well, you're increasing HP man, better fix yer brakes up to deal with all that extra HP." They are two different functions of the car!!!

Use common sense, consider the "how" and "why" next time....not just what you assume to be true, or what sounds correct, or what you tried once or twice.

Website · Post by **TurboKA37** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

hmmm..... muffin? sunshine? i was think that the z32 brakes would be able to withstand a little bit more heat because thay are much thicker and larger in diameter. or does the fact that they have much larger calipers and harder braking make up for this? i just find it hard to believe that a brake system meant for a 3300 lb performance car will warp just as easy as a brake system for a 2800 lb car.

Post by **SmithSR** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

It's not "as easily", but it is very possible. It's fine if you don't think so. The Z32 brakes DO provide better stopping "power", but are still a basic braking system....no magic ceramic rotors here. The fact that you are installing brakes intended for a greater-mass vehicle is a plus. That doesn't mean they are bombproof. The odds favor less wear & tear on the Z32 kit. Still, any car being driven at 9/10 or 10/10 will see severe wear on components. duh:D

No matter what application the brakes were meant for, they still hold heat, they are still capable of being over worked. Make sense?

Post by **slip** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

well said smith,i remeber back in the day we would take the lightest car we could find and install a hp 350 or 302,the 302 went into a tr7 350 in a vega as far as the brakes went if it had pad left we drove it if not we replaced em with stock pads and rotors it didnt stop as well since the V8 added weight but it went fast

Post by **eastcoastchaos** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

my friends mustang did the shaking thing when he had to stop quickly, but it had nuthing to do w/ rotors. he had to replace tie rod ends, after those the problem was fixed

Post by **slip** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

yes tierod ends could also be the prob, it will show up in the steering wheel vibrating wile driving most of the time.you can check it your self by placing a floor jack under the A frame directly under the strut/spring,jack it up to just before the spring compresses completely and grab ahold of the tire on the side the you have placed the jack and move it wile a buddy looks for movement at the tie rod ends.you can also check your balljoints and wheel bearing play this way just make sure you support the car with jack stands for safety. p.s. leave the steering wheel locked to check the tierod ends

Post by **Daunttless** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:58 pm

I was going to suggest the tie rods as well. As far as the rotation if you examine your rotors and they do not appear to be warped then there is a strong possibility of a tie rod being damaged as the direct connection will transfer road vibration through the chassis upon heavier braking. Additionally, another common misconception is that because a brake is bigger and designed for a heavier car does not mean that it makes you "stop" faster. As Smith pointed out, there are other factors that relate to the stopping power of a vehicle, the larger brakes merely provide a higher heat tolerance as well as a higher resistance to heat induced brake fade which you will most likely never need to worry about unless you are pushing your vehicle to the limits of braking every day. And even if you are as he stated, a Z32 brake merely provides a resistance, theres nothing magical about it, brake fade will still occur and damage your ability to stop in a timely fashion. Just thought I would throw that in there....

shaking while braking??

shaking while braking??

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