YOU WILL NEED THE IMAGE IN THE NEXT POST.
Just dropped in the SR. No electricity is working coming to the cabin of the car. The starter has 12 volts coming to it. Engine won't even spin when trying to crank. *NOTE* All readings are between the part described and a verified chasis ground unless otherwise specified.
Scenario 1 .... All connections are made:First, checking the voltage on E23, 0v. Impedance between E23 and Ground is 0Ù.Everything else has a voltage reading of 0v (other than at the starter).
Scenario 2 ..... If I unplug E102:I get 12v on E23.Nothing comes on (lights ect)White wire on E42 gets 12v.Turn key foreward and all voltages drop to about 4v.Both prongs on E102 have 12v (although only the white one should) also, only 3Ù between ground and E23.If I use a jumper and bypass E42, the voltages don't change on E102. And yes, I'm almost positive this is the correct relay.If I turn the lights on, all voltages drop to 0v (except on starter).
Obviously, something is either on, or is completely grounding out E102. I can't find where M6 (Accessory Relay-1) is anywhere in the car. I'm thinking that E42 (Accessory Relay-2) is the one in the box right next to the intake (at least that's what I'm calling it).
As always, if I'm unclear with aything, ask and I will do my best to answer.
Oh yeah, Please don't let this be another post where people get off subject and forget why the question was even asked in the first place.
serious electrical problems (huge picture)
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charlotte240
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 5:36 pm
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charlotte240
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 5:36 pm
Re: serious electrical problems (huge picture)
Ok I don't know much about the SR's electrical system, but I'll take a stab at this anyways...First, has the car ever run(ie before SR drop) since you'v owned it?
First off, if you have 0Vdc on E23 and 0ohms to ground(scen1), then there is surely a short between the battery and the E23 junction. A short that close to the battery should result in something noticable. Either a)spark 'n arkin'(dead bat), b)a blown fuse/circuit breaker, or c)heat/fire. I'm surprised you havn't drained your battery. This may seem obvious, but have you actually tested your fuses with a test lamp or ohm meter?
OK so you say that E102 should have a ground on it. Somewhere in that line is a short then. Check all your fuses first so you aren't chasing this short 'into a foxhole'. What I would do is this:
-Disconnect E102/M12 connector-On ONE side of this connection should be the short. Continue to do this(aka divide an conquer) until you find the short.
So for instance, if E102 has 12V on both pins, then short is from there back(left, relative to the schematic). Remove the Acc2 relay, check E102 again. If 12V still on both, check the relay holder/associated wiring. From there it's a short(no pun intended) path to the fuse box. -OR-
If M12 has 12V on both pins, then the short is from there to the right.
Sorry for not being more specefic, but I'm not sure on a few things relative to automotive schematics (like do the relay boxes supply a ground, or 12v circuit path)
Since you'v probably mucked with the wiring, it's hard to tell where the short may be. Use the fuses, circuit breakers, and temperature of wires(possibly heating up) to your advantage to isolate the short.
Hope this helps and doesn't confuse things even more.
Keep us posted.-Jamie
First off, if you have 0Vdc on E23 and 0ohms to ground(scen1), then there is surely a short between the battery and the E23 junction. A short that close to the battery should result in something noticable. Either a)spark 'n arkin'(dead bat), b)a blown fuse/circuit breaker, or c)heat/fire. I'm surprised you havn't drained your battery. This may seem obvious, but have you actually tested your fuses with a test lamp or ohm meter?
OK so you say that E102 should have a ground on it. Somewhere in that line is a short then. Check all your fuses first so you aren't chasing this short 'into a foxhole'. What I would do is this:
-Disconnect E102/M12 connector-On ONE side of this connection should be the short. Continue to do this(aka divide an conquer) until you find the short.
So for instance, if E102 has 12V on both pins, then short is from there back(left, relative to the schematic). Remove the Acc2 relay, check E102 again. If 12V still on both, check the relay holder/associated wiring. From there it's a short(no pun intended) path to the fuse box. -OR-
If M12 has 12V on both pins, then the short is from there to the right.
Sorry for not being more specefic, but I'm not sure on a few things relative to automotive schematics (like do the relay boxes supply a ground, or 12v circuit path)
Since you'v probably mucked with the wiring, it's hard to tell where the short may be. Use the fuses, circuit breakers, and temperature of wires(possibly heating up) to your advantage to isolate the short.
Hope this helps and doesn't confuse things even more.
Keep us posted.-Jamie
Oops, I missed an important point you had made:Quote »Scen2:White wire on E42 gets 12v.[/quote]This implies that the short is from M12 to the 'right'. Pull your Acc1 relay - check V on M12 again.
It could be:-Acc1 relay 'holder' contacts are shorting-Fuse box short, or:-accessory fed from that fuse box, such as Interior lamp,stop lamp, or hazard.
Like I said in the prior post, I'm very surprised you havn't blown a fuse, unless there's something obvious I'm missing here. Anyone else?
It could be:-Acc1 relay 'holder' contacts are shorting-Fuse box short, or:-accessory fed from that fuse box, such as Interior lamp,stop lamp, or hazard.
Like I said in the prior post, I'm very surprised you havn't blown a fuse, unless there's something obvious I'm missing here. Anyone else?
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charlotte240
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 5:36 pm
Yeah, car ran fine before. This isn't even the SR wiring. This is just the 240sx wiring harness that didn't have to be messed with. And, no, I didn't mess with it.
sorry, I forgot to mention that all fuses are fine.
when E102 is disconnected from M12, than there is no voltage going on either pin on M12 (because E102 is supposed to supply voltage to M12).
Also, as I stated, I have no idea where accessory relay 1 (M6) is in my car. There are no wires heating up or anything like that (at least that I have encountered). I DID however notice yesterday morning (after leaving everything connected all night) that my main voltage (on the starter) has dropped to 10V. This could be because the battery was about 25 degrees F though.
"How a relay works-101"Frankly put, it's just an electronic light switch. Instead of a hand flipping a switch, a small current does it. We'll use accessory relay 2 for example. When a small current goes through the B and L (black and blue respectivly) wire, then it completes a circuit between W/L and W (White with blue stripe and White, again, respectivly)
E102 shouldn't have a ground, but apparently something is grounding out on it and causing everything to ground out. The W/L wire shouldn't have power to it on E102 when the key is off, but it does. Even when I remove the accessory relay from the relay box (near the air filter). So now that I think of it, that might be relay 2 next to the air filter. Does anybody know where accessory relay 1 is then? They both have the same color wires, so that kind of screws me up.
sorry, I forgot to mention that all fuses are fine.
when E102 is disconnected from M12, than there is no voltage going on either pin on M12 (because E102 is supposed to supply voltage to M12).
Also, as I stated, I have no idea where accessory relay 1 (M6) is in my car. There are no wires heating up or anything like that (at least that I have encountered). I DID however notice yesterday morning (after leaving everything connected all night) that my main voltage (on the starter) has dropped to 10V. This could be because the battery was about 25 degrees F though.
"How a relay works-101"Frankly put, it's just an electronic light switch. Instead of a hand flipping a switch, a small current does it. We'll use accessory relay 2 for example. When a small current goes through the B and L (black and blue respectivly) wire, then it completes a circuit between W/L and W (White with blue stripe and White, again, respectivly)
E102 shouldn't have a ground, but apparently something is grounding out on it and causing everything to ground out. The W/L wire shouldn't have power to it on E102 when the key is off, but it does. Even when I remove the accessory relay from the relay box (near the air filter). So now that I think of it, that might be relay 2 next to the air filter. Does anybody know where accessory relay 1 is then? They both have the same color wires, so that kind of screws me up.
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EazyBreazy
- Posts: 2672
- Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 11:19 pm
you said its a ka harness. there are large differences in that and the sr. if the sr is in the car the ka harness has to be modified. ie s14sr into s14 240="bolt" in replacement but there are wiring differences that will cause the sr to not run even though the plugs fit. this is how heavy throttle says to do it.
SR Harness Wire Color Use KA Harness Wire Color Black / Pink stripe Fuel Pump Relay Black / Pink stripe Green / Orange stripe Transmission Neutral Sensor Green / Orange stripe Red / Black stripe ECU Relay Red / Black stripe Green / Yellow stripe AC Relay Green / Yellow stripe Red ECU Backup Power Red Black / Red & Blue / Red (Note: connect 2 wires to 1) Main Ignition Power Black / Red stripe Black / White stripe ECU Power Black / White stripe Blue / Green stripe AC Relay Blue / Green stripe Black / Yellow stripe Idle Air Control Valve Power Black / Yellow stripe Brown (to O2 sensor) O2 Sensor Power Any 12v switched source
The MAFS and power steering sensor wires need to make it over to the front driver's side of the engine compartment, use the MAFS and PS wires from the KA harness to extend these wires. The AC compressor wire from the KA engine bay harness should be used NOT the SR harness AC wire (even though it fits). The starter and alternator plugs to the fuse box are all the same and plug right in. There are several unused and leftover harness plugs, anything not mentioned here does not need to be connected.
ECU & Dash wiring
The colors on the wires that run from the ECU up into the dash matched up perfectly on both the SR ECU harness and the KA dash harness:
Wire Color Use Yellow / Red stripe Tachometer signal Yellow / Green stripe Speedometer signal Orange Ignition start Black Ground Blue / Green stripe AC signal Blue / Black stripe Water temp signal
On the KA, the rest of the wires are listed in the KA FSM as going to the 'check connector'. It is not necessary to connect any other wires to get the SR to run properly.
The Apexi turbo timer is connected to the O2 sensor wire at the ECU to provide auto countdown functions. The Apexi AVC-R is also attached to the ECU harness for tachometer signal, speed signal, and throttle position. Apexi products come with a very good ECU pinout diagram that is extremely useful.
Remove the brackets from the SR ECU to make it easier to mount.
SR Harness Wire Color Use KA Harness Wire Color Black / Pink stripe Fuel Pump Relay Black / Pink stripe Green / Orange stripe Transmission Neutral Sensor Green / Orange stripe Red / Black stripe ECU Relay Red / Black stripe Green / Yellow stripe AC Relay Green / Yellow stripe Red ECU Backup Power Red Black / Red & Blue / Red (Note: connect 2 wires to 1) Main Ignition Power Black / Red stripe Black / White stripe ECU Power Black / White stripe Blue / Green stripe AC Relay Blue / Green stripe Black / Yellow stripe Idle Air Control Valve Power Black / Yellow stripe Brown (to O2 sensor) O2 Sensor Power Any 12v switched source
The MAFS and power steering sensor wires need to make it over to the front driver's side of the engine compartment, use the MAFS and PS wires from the KA harness to extend these wires. The AC compressor wire from the KA engine bay harness should be used NOT the SR harness AC wire (even though it fits). The starter and alternator plugs to the fuse box are all the same and plug right in. There are several unused and leftover harness plugs, anything not mentioned here does not need to be connected.
ECU & Dash wiring
The colors on the wires that run from the ECU up into the dash matched up perfectly on both the SR ECU harness and the KA dash harness:
Wire Color Use Yellow / Red stripe Tachometer signal Yellow / Green stripe Speedometer signal Orange Ignition start Black Ground Blue / Green stripe AC signal Blue / Black stripe Water temp signal
On the KA, the rest of the wires are listed in the KA FSM as going to the 'check connector'. It is not necessary to connect any other wires to get the SR to run properly.
The Apexi turbo timer is connected to the O2 sensor wire at the ECU to provide auto countdown functions. The Apexi AVC-R is also attached to the ECU harness for tachometer signal, speed signal, and throttle position. Apexi products come with a very good ECU pinout diagram that is extremely useful.
Remove the brackets from the SR ECU to make it easier to mount.
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EazyBreazy
- Posts: 2672
- Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 11:19 pm
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charlotte240
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 5:36 pm
Running yet?
So have you made any progress? I'm sure you'v been working on it since - heck if I just had a moto drop I'd be night and day trying to get it running.
-Jamie
-Jamie
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charlotte240
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 5:36 pm
Nah, I havent figured it out yet. I haven't even messed with it. I don't really have time between a full time job, part time job, 8 month old daughter and girlfriend. I am however towing to a shop tomorrow if nobody else has any other ideas.
Extheflow, where behind the dash is the relay on the s14?? I may try looking for something like that tonight.
Extheflow, where behind the dash is the relay on the s14?? I may try looking for something like that tonight.