Secret Weapon Intakes For our M45's

[Mishooo]

I do some research in the forum about the Secret Weapon Ram Air for the M45

and I found that it's come with two kits



short ram air



cold ram air

I enter thier site and I read about thier filters & technology



and I think it's good



they post alot of dyno test for there intakes and this makes me trust there product

I think I will order it instead of the Element114 ram air

any info about there products ??

is it gonna improve my hp with the Stillen Cat-back ??

[hawkeyejw]

It's hard to say whether it will increase horsepower further without reprogramming the engine or not. This article gives some interesting info on the subject http://www.caranddriver.com/re...r_box

[Mishooo]

It's hard to say whether it will increase horsepower further without reprogramming the engine or not. This article gives some interesting info on the subject http://www.caranddriver.com/re...r_box

I know that it's better to reprogram the ecu to gain more Hp

but as you read in the article they gain 10 hp from the intake & cat-back

in the M45 when you add INJEN intake & any cat back you will loss power !!

many members say that it's due to the Injen tube dimensions " it's bigger than the OEM tube "

but the Secret Weapon tube dimensions I think it's the same

so maybe we will gain alittle hp from it , but if you want more hp you must reprogramming the ECU

[EcstaSPT]

I think you're going to be sorely disappointed if you're looking for hp gains using something like this.

[Mishooo]

I think you're going to be sorely disappointed if you're looking for hp gains using something like this.

Can you give me a good reason ??

Do you install it ??? or just you are guessing ?

[EcstaSPT]

So if it's the same size tube, what's the point? It's already been shown multiple times that allowing more air to enter the M45 engine does nothing for performance. So basically all you're doing is adding a new air filter, which may flow more, but if the engine doesn't need it in the first place, it won't help anything.

[NightWatch]

I think the term "Ram Air" is a misnomer here. These are nothing more than cold air intake tubes. Granted, they're pretty sweet looking, but in order to have a "Ram Air" you need some sort of air channeling device like a hood scoop which funnels air under minimal pressure into the intake manifold.

I think their performance gains are over-stated and without re-programming the ECM I would think it would run lean until it re-programmed itself.

[M4T5]

Who knows.....maybe it will be a better product than the others out on the market for our cars.Then again, its made of aluminum (at least I think it is) and this may work well with showing great CFM gains in a lab, but add the under hood engine heat to that metal tube and hp will suffer in the real world!The tube would need to be wrapped in header wrap to try and eliminate heat transfer.Tuning would give the best results, but I have still not seen dyno results from tuning our cars.

J

[New2Import]

I talked with a Stillen tech and they dynoed the M with the catback and intake and gained around 18hp but he stated that the tq #s were the most impressive. So I dont know about this myth till someone shows # that you lose power with intake and exhaust.

[M4T5]

But they fail to tell you it's done in a controlled environment, large floor fan blowing on engine with hood up, engine bearly hot (just started), and dynometer in a covered building.Those are all factors you need to consider before believing everything they tell you. Hell, they may even have had a bag of ice sitting on the intake manifold...who knows.Once you shut your hood, start your engine, engine warms up, then all underhood items start to soak in all the hot under hood heat.Now your cold air intake kit turns into a hot air intake! You should be able to figure out what happens when hot air is ingested into the intake.....

J

[ken in az]

Our ECU's have what's called a "calculated load value" as far as what it looks for. What does that mean? It's a nifty way of saying how much load is on the engine, or in other words - how much torque is being developed. Nissan/Infiniti has built in parameters for their Calculated Load, if it see's that the engine is making too much power, then it will pull fuel and timing and or in extreme cases throw a code or even a MIL light.

How is Calculated Load measured? A combination of things really, but mainly in our situation in adding airflow through the engine, it'll be looking at the Mass Air Flow sensor, O2 sensors, Injector Duty Cycle.

The MAF tells the ecu how much air is entering the engine, thus based on this parameter the ecu then tells the Injectors how long to open and this is called duty cycle. Finally the ecu will also read the O2 sensor to determine if the mixture is in a rich or lean condition and adjust the injector duty cycle to increase or decrease the amount of fuel entering the engine. This operation is called "Closed Loop" where the ecu controls the engine completely to maintain the air fuel ratio.

In cars of yester-year this closed loop operation only happened at Idle, Cruise, and Part throttle conditions, but once the ECU recognized that the engine was under Wide Open Throttle, it would kick into "Open Loop" operation. Open Loop is a preset established parameters that were hard programmed into the ecu and regardless of the actual air fuel ratio, it would still use the exact parameters to control the engine. Often times we would add an intake and exhaust to these cars and they would run great because they were programmed on the safe limits of the Rich side of the air fuel mixture. Sometimes they would run poor because we had then taken them outside of the factory limits of the air fuel mixture to the lean side causing them to loose power because of poor air fuel mixtures.

Our car, the M45, and many newer automobile models are now actually running in Closed Loop Operation at "ALL" times. Meaning the engines should automatically adjust to the mods. These engines/ecu's actually do adjust pretty well to some mods, but get outside the realm of what the factory wanted they will pull power to limit and maintain the factory preset limits.

That's where Calculated Load Value comes into play. This is where the ecu see's too much airflow and will pull timing to control the torque output of the engine. If it see's that it has to increase the duty cycle too much to maintain the air fuel mixture, it will pull timing to maintain factory limits. If it see's that the Turbine speed in the trans is to high as compared to the output chaft of the transmission indicating the transmission is slipping, the ecu will pull timing to control the torque output to factory limits.

What are those limits? Well for our engine, the limits are safe until we close in on the 8%-10% over what the factory limits are. Any higher than that and you are making the ecu work overtime. From my undestanding the ecu can adjust up to 25% but not using optimum parameters and ultimately loosing power or not gaining any more.

And that example posted is using a car with a turbocharger - apples to oranges comparrison to our car, but has the same jist as to what is going on. Turbo ECU's can raise the boost pressures easily making more power. I - myself - made 50more hp by adjusting the base timing on my old Z from 15btdc to 20btdc - at the same boost level. so there is definitely more helping that subie in that example.

[EcstaSPT]

But they fail to tell you it's done in a controlled environment, large floor fan blowing on engine with hood up, engine bearly hot (just started), and dynometer in a covered building.Those are all factors you need to consider before believing everything they tell you. Hell, they may even have had a bag of ice sitting on the intake manifold...who knows.Once you shut your hood, start your engine, engine warms up, then all underhood items start to soak in all the hot under hood heat.Now your cold air intake kit turns into a hot air intake! You should be able to figure out what happens when hot air is ingested into the intake.....

J

Just what I was thinking...how do you know the conditions of their before and after results? Always take manufacturers advertised gains with a huge grain of salt. Like these K&N ads that say "you'll get 20hp JUST FROM THE K&N!". Yeah, maybe if your oem filter is caked with an inch of mud.

[M4T5]

Ken...lol...I'll some it up for you. It's kind of like TM (Torque Management).Pulls away power to save the vehicles vital components! Would be great if UpRev figured away to pull some of the TM or Calculated Load Value parameters out of the ECU programming.I know TM can be removed in percentages on other vehicle makes. Hell, a good tuner can take out 100% TM if that's what the customer wants. Most good tuners however will warn you or avoid removing 100% of TM. The most TM I ever had removed from an ECU program was 65-75%. Keeping some TM in an ECU's programming will prolong the life of the transmission and other powertrain components.Now, if I had a standard transmission, I would have 100% of TM removed from the programming.Anyways....I think TM is roughly the same thing as Ken's Calculated Load Value is. At least it is based on the same principals.

J

[Mishooo]

I talked with a Stillen tech and they dynoed the M with the catback and intake and gained around 18hp but he stated that the tq #s were the most impressive. So I dont know about this myth till someone shows # that you lose power with intake and exhaust.

what kind of intake Stillen use ?

did they tune the ECU when they Dynoed the Car ??

[Mishooo]

up up up

[ken in az]

Ken...lol...I'll some it up for you. It's kind of like TM (Torque Management).Pulls away power to save the vehicles vital components! Would be great if UpRev figured away to pull some of the TM or Calculated Load Value parameters out of the ECU programming.I know TM can be removed in percentages on other vehicle makes. Hell, a good tuner can take out 100% TM if that's what the customer wants. Most good tuners however will warn you or avoid removing 100% of TM. The most TM I ever had removed from an ECU program was 65-75%. Keeping some TM in an ECU's programming will prolong the life of the transmission and other powertrain components.Now, if I had a standard transmission, I would have 100% of TM removed from the programming.Anyways....I think TM is roughly the same thing as Ken's Calculated Load Value is. At least it is based on the same principals.

J

To a point it is the same, Torque Management is a GM term, and it is only previlent durring shifts. Good tuners can do this - yes - most GM handhelds can and you should definitely think about beefing the trans and Torque Converter first. 6 speed vehicles do not have Torque Management, it is only for Automatics.

Nissan's "Calculated Load" is completely different in the fact that it is constantly adjusting based on airflow and how far the ECU can adjust.

UpRev will reprogram the adjusted values to bring calculated load back to 100% rather than having it at 110% - 115% or any higher.

To give you an idea, with just the Airbox Mod and the TB coolant bypass, I was at 103% ~ 104% caculated load value at "Idle" meaning that at my given altitude, air flow and air inlet temperature that technically I was flowing 104% more air than the factory had originally inteded as an optimum setting. That was verified using UpRev's Cipher cable that can read Nissan's specific code, not a generic scan tool. Cipher can read and data log at 20 times a second on each and every parameter, versus 1-2 times a second from a scan tool. OBD2 protocol does not necessitate any higher resolution, but nissan's proprietary code reads much faster.

When my car is tuned - we'll see where I am at now concerning calculated load with the exhaust setup and the new intake. I had hoped it to happen much earlier, but life happens.

[svard75]

Sorry to bust your bubble guys but just because it flows more air into the engine it doesn't make it better. They have to sacrifice something and that something is filtering. I used to be an avid K&N filter user until stumbling across an independent testing company that compared filters and found that the cotton gauze type that uses oil to be the worst for engines. The most particles pasted through these types. Stay with the paper or open cell foam for off-road if you want the engine to keep purring for a long time

[ken in az]

Or you could use the Dry synthetic filter from Amsoil or AFE that does both filter and flow better than any element available.

The tube on this intake may be worth it, but msvara is right - the filter on this thing is junk.

Key things this intake is missing. 1. good filter 2. proper velocity stack for inlet 3. anyone that has used it to report back

Be the first and let us know what you think.

[M4T5]

Someone needs to just buy it and try it out already. How much are they anyways?Hell...I'm one to talk....I still have the Element114 CAI kit....in the box still. It needs a composite spacer block about 1-1/2"-2" thick to allow it to mount correctly. I might try it out, but I doubt I will keep it. Since my wife drives the car mostly, I prefer to keep it relatively stock and maintenance free as possible due to the "oil consumption testing" litigation it is currently under. I think I will eventually have it tuned for the aftermarket exhaust. It did change the engines power band some. Now has a tad less low end torque, but actually gained more mid-upper end power. Hopefully UpRev can get some of the power back down low or give me more power all the way around.I'm in no hurry because the oil consumption test will take quite a while to complete due to the minimal mileage the vehicle accumulates. I'm only 1,300mi into the test. I really don't know how long they test it for actually.Get that M tuned already Ken!

J

[svard75]

Sorry hate to beat a dead horse but I found another independent website that posted similar results and a detailed description. Still searching for the original one that was done in a controlled environment.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

Hopefully this isn't considered a competing website to nicoclub!

NICOCLUB RULZ!

[ken in az]

Someone needs to just buy it and try it out already. How much are they anyways?Hell...I'm one to talk....I still have the Element114 CAI kit....in the box still. It needs a composite spacer block about 1-1/2"-2" thick to allow it to mount correctly. I might try it out, but I doubt I will keep it. Since my wife drives the car mostly, I prefer to keep it relatively stock and maintenance free as possible due to the "oil consumption testing" litigation it is currently under. I think I will eventually have it tuned for the aftermarket exhaust. It did change the engines power band some. Now has a tad less low end torque, but actually gained more mid-upper end power. Hopefully UpRev can get some of the power back down low or give me more power all the way around.I'm in no hurry because the oil consumption test will take quite a while to complete due to the minimal mileage the vehicle accumulates. I'm only 1,300mi into the test. I really don't know how long they test it for actually.Get that M tuned already Ken!

J

I'm trying my darnedest to make it happen, but life is killing me right now. I could go into it, but no one would beleive me and I have no room to complain. Just too many expenses and not enough time in the day.