Seattle steps up to battle Global Warming (lolZ)

[audtatious]

Beach bonfires may be bannedThey fuel global warming, parks department says

By KERY MURAKAMIP-I REPORTER

Even with the skies overcast and threatening rain, Khang Nguyen, 18, and Joel Juan, 19, kicked back after school at Alki Beach.

"It's just a relaxing way to hang out with friends," Nguyen said of the bonfire crackling in front of them one evening earlier this week.

But Seattle Parks and Recreation might do what even this week's chilly weather couldn't -- douse the long tradition of beach bonfires at Alki and at Golden Gardens.

Park department staff is recommending reducing bonfires at the two beaches this summer and possibly banning them altogether next year.

The park board will hear the recommendation Thursday, and the city plans to run public-service announcements and hand out brochures later this month about the effects of bonfires on global warming.

According to a memo to the park board from the staff released Thursday, "The overall policy question for the Board is whether it is good policy for Seattle Parks to continue public beach fires when the carbon ... emissions produced by thousands of beach fires per year contributes to global warming."

Under the proposal, the department in July would reduce the number of fire rings at Alki from six currently to three and at Golden Gardens from 12 to seven.

Then later this year, the department would consider banning bonfires or requiring fees and permits to reduce the number of bonfires next year.

It's the second time in the past few years the tradition of lounging by a fire at the beach has run up against the environmental ramifications of bonfire smoke.

Parks and Recreation recommended banning the fires in 2004, after a violation notice from the Puget Sound Clean Air Agency to the city after someone set a couch on fire at Alki Beach. However, 1,200 people signed a petition to save Alki's bonfires, and 100 others signed a petition to save the ones at Golden Garden.

Instead, park staff said the department should do more to regulate what people burn and make sure the fires are out by 11:30 p.m.

"I think people still feel the same way (about preserving bonfires)," said Larry Carpenter, treasurer of the Alki Community Council. "Old-timers see bonfires as a tradition that they did as children and growing up. It's a nostalgia thing."

At Alki on Wednesday night, Linda Garcia, a 56-year- old West Seattle resident, walked her dog and made a slightly rose-colored argument for preserving her beloved bonfires. "It's so windy around here it probably doesn't pollute that much.

"They have to try to take everything away," she said.

Sara Russell, 34, who also was walking her dog, rolled her eyes at the idea of banning bonfires to stave off global warming.

"If they really wanted to do something, they could enforce the no-cruising law, because in the summer you see so many cars cruising around here," she said.

Russell's neighbor, Debbie Nichols, said that last July Fourth, she got up at 5:30 a.m. to grab one of the fire pits. "I wrapped myself in a blanket and sat there all day," Nichols said. "We use the fire pits all year round."

Since the park board last heard the issue, the department assigned more staff to the two sites. The number of fires using illegal materials has dropped by two-thirds, according to the park memo.

The memo also noted that restrictions could cause illegal fires and fights over the limited number of fire pits. Charging fees to use the pits could disproportionately bar youths and low-income people from having bonfires, the report said.

But Mayor Greg Nickels' plan to reduce climate-threatening pollutants "begs the question of whether Seattle Parks is acting responsibly ... to systematically reduce controllable contributions to global warming," the memo said.

"I can certainly understand it. (Global warming) is a legitimate concern," said Robert Drucker, vice president of the Sunset Hill Community Association.

Still, he said of the bonfires at Golden Gardens: "It's a long-standing tradition. I think people would be upset to see it go."

But at Alki, Nguyen said he'd be OK with banning bonfires.

"By all means, I'd rather not have bonfires than have global warming," he said.

As a sliver of silvery sky shrank under the growing clouds, Nguyen played a guitar, and maybe for the last year, the flames licked the salt air.

MORE INFORMATIONThe Seattle Board of Park Commissioners will hear the bonfire ban proposal at its next meeting, Thursday at 7 p.m. The meeting will be at the park department's offices at 100 Dexter Ave. N.

[brizanden]

wowwwwwwwwwwww... hahaha yeah bonfires they are a modern indulgence they cause too much "green house gasses" lmao seriously why are people so up for such a stupid cause

[AZhitman]

Freaking MORONS.

One huge wildfire creates more mess than the entire history of bonfires since the dawn of time...

I swear, any politician supporting such nonsense should be run out of office immediately.

[audtatious]

Next up? Outdoor BBQ's....

[dusred]

Just thought this thread deserved a bump.

What ever happened on this ban? Did it go through?

[S133P3R]

are you sure this isnt california?

[480sx]

The park board will hear the recommendation Thursday, and the city plans to run public-service announcements and hand out brochures later this month about the effects of bonfires on global warming.

Cant get past there right now.

I would assume that because there are competent people that who wrote that message from the 'city', this would mean that their effects are so nill there should be more of them.

Bond fires for all!



EDIT - Oh.. This is history and probably didnt get implemented..

[ishkabibble]

Just thought this thread deserved a bump.

What ever happened on this ban? Did it go through?

Did you search "the Google"?

[C-Kwik]

Wood burning does indeed emit carbon, but is considered potentially be a renewable source as the carbon would be recycled as trees grow to replace it. The key is that they need to be replaced with the same amount of biomass. However, burning wood does increase particulate pollution in the air. I'd say they are chasing their tails on this one. My focus would be on replenishing forests and keeping the ones we have over this. But then again, Any one city's control only spans so far. I'd say its more of a message than an effective level of carbon control...

[audtatious]

No limits on beach bonfiresCity backs off proposal for restrictions or a ban

By KERY MURAKAMIP-I REPORTER

Seattle Parks and Recreation has backed off considering restrictions on bonfires this year, and on possibly banning or charging fees for them at Alki and Golden Gardens beaches next year.

In a statement Friday, parks Superintendent Tim Gallagher said the agency does not intend to take any action this year.

Gallagher had asked parks staff members to recommend options for new board members on how to deal with bonfires, parks spokeswoman Dewey Potter said Friday.

In a briefing memo released Thursday -- before a department meeting next Thursday -- staff made several preliminary recommendations:

# In late June, the department would use press releases, public service announcements and brochures to inform the public about the significant impact of beach-fire carbon emissions on global warming.

# After July 6, reduce the number of fire rings at Alki Beach from six to three and at Golden Gardens from 12 to seven.

Then late this year, the department would schedule meetings or focus groups to discuss the pros and cons of eliminating or charging fees for bonfires in 2009, the memo said.

Gallagher had not decided whether to sign off on his staff's preliminary recommendations to the park board, Potter said, but has now decided not to proceed with any of them.

Potter said Gallagher's decision had nothing to do with negative reaction to the ideas once they were made public.

"He thinks things are working just fine," she said.

The department recommended banning the fires in 2004, following a violation notice from the Puget Sound Clean Air Agency to the city after someone set a couch on fire at Alki Beach. However, 1,200 people signed a petition to save Alki's bonfires, and 100 others signed a petition to save the ones at Golden Garden.

Instead, park staff members said the agency should do more to regulate what people burn and make sure the fires are out by 11:30 p.m.

Since the park board last heard the issue, the department assigned more staff people to the two sites. The number of fires using illegal materials has dropped by two-thirds, according to the parks memo.

The memo also noted that restrictions could cause illegal fires and fights over the limited number of fire pits. Charging fees to use the pits could disproportionately bar youths and low-income people from having bonfires, the report said.

But Mayor Greg Nickels' plan to reduce climate-threatening pollutants "begs the question of whether Seattle Parks is acting responsibly ... to systematically reduce controllable contributions to global warming," the memo said.

[smockers83]

I don't know what the rest of the country has been experiencing this spring/summer, but here it's been pretty cool for the time of year.

GLOBAL WARMING IS OVER!!!!

I'll tell you how we solved the problem. Oil prices peaked, causing people to drive less and buy fuel efficient cars. On top of that, the auto industry is crumbling with the economy in the crapper. With GM and Chrysler going bankrupt and able to cut production significantly, we've been able to reduce emissions with auto sales being significantly down. Everything that we blame for global warming has now been fixed.

/sarcasm

[480sx]

Damn thats a relief. Im loving this weather! Global warming being a conclusive myth FTW!

[audtatious]

lol

It's cool here too. Was in the 40's the other day and will be down to 50 tonight. The weekend will warm back up to the 80's tho. I love 70's and cool evenings tho.....

[ishkabibble]

It's been 80 and sunny for a month straight in Portland. That pretty much never happens, it's almost always in the 60s and rainy here.

[szh]

It was 58 when I drove in this morning. Expected to get to a high of 74 today in San Jose.

Z

[Jesda]

People think California is a mess... well you haven't seen a trainwreck until you've examined the state of Washington.

[smockers83]

Read an article the other day reporting that MI has higher CO2 emissions than 167 countries.

[S133P3R]

shouldnt be a problem once we get rid of those pesky gross polluting car factories! they just make more gross polluters!

[Bubs daddy]

Man made global warming is the biggest hoax and fraud perpetrated. Notice how they change from warming to "climate change."

The earth is what, 4.5 BILLION years old. Forest fires, floods, Massive volcanos and earthquakes, and other natural calamities caused by natural weather phenomenon and an always changing seismic and cataclysmic events.

A meteor that was estimated to be 6 miles wide hit about 65 million years ago and caused such destruction that it completely killed off an untold number of species including the dinosaurs. Weather was changed so dramatically it took hundreds of years to stabilize.

Climate cycles that have been going on since this rock was formed.

Yet, some liberal, socialist, agenda driven alarmists without any factual base whatsoever are going to tell me that water vapor expelled from the tailpipes of automobiles will eventually cause the earth's climate to change so significantly as to completely alter a climate cycle on its own.

This is so foolish and arrogant. Arrogant to think that man could possibly change earth's natural weather cycles. This is bulltucky of the highest order and so ridiculous it is amazing that people actually believe it.

Bonfires on the beach contributing to made made global warming... So sad and pathetic. Ludicrous. Especially coming from people who are convinced they are so intellectually superior.

Complete idiocy.

[themadscientist]

I think the smoke of the world economy burning unchecked may be contribution to global warming.

[heliochrome85]

what about the smoke from my cuban cigars? does that hurt the planet too?

what about the fleet of gassed up hummers i keep in the drive way, idling, just cause i can?

A-RAB MONEY BABY!

seriously though, what i dont understand is the moment you leave the civilized world, cars and trucks manufactored for second and third world countries lose their emissions controls. Why does a chevy made for the US have emissions controls that the chevy made for mexico doesnt? if the government really wanted to crack down on carbon emissions, they would go through the law systematically and close these obvious loopholes.

that is, when they arent caling for 53 roll call votes http://congress.blogs.foxnews....-rama/

[smockers83]

Well, with that though, Mexico doesn't have as stringent controls. The US government can't necessarily control what gets exported in that sense. With lower standards in Mexico, car mfgs in the US can produce cars cheaper that are bound for countries like Mexico. With higher standards come higher costs to production.

Standards can also be put in place to prevent goods from other countries from being imported as a barrier to trade, but that is the opposite in which we are talking about here.

[C-Kwik]

Man made global warming is the biggest hoax and fraud perpetrated. Notice how they change from warming to "climate change."

Proof?

The earth is what, 4.5 BILLION years old. Forest fires, floods, Massive volcanos and earthquakes, and other natural calamities caused by natural weather phenomenon and an always changing seismic and cataclysmic events.

Incomplete sentence. Not sure what point you are making here.

A meteor that was estimated to be 6 miles wide hit about 65 million years ago and caused such destruction that it completely killed off an untold number of species including the dinosaurs. Weather was changed so dramatically it took hundreds of years to stabilize.

Its actually a contentious "fact".

http://www.daviddarling.info/e....html

I don't know anything about the site I quoted. It was just the simplest to read that summarizes most of the points you can find in much more scientific articles on google.

Ironically, its likely that many of the scientists that believe MMGW ot be true are or are working with scientists that are figuring out the extinction of dinosaurs.

Climate cycles that have been going on since this rock was formed.

Noone denies that. The contention is that it is being accelerated by humans.

Yet, some liberal, socialist, agenda driven alarmists without any factual base whatsoever are going to tell me that water vapor expelled from the tailpipes of automobiles will eventually cause the earth's climate to change so significantly as to completely alter a climate cycle on its own.

Its CO2 that they are putting primary focus on. Sure, there are many greenhouse gases, but CO2 is what they claim is the biggest contributor.

Take a trip back to chem class with me. In the most basic form, the equation for burning a hydrocarbon is:

Hydrocarbon + Oxygen = Carbon Dioxide and Water (vapor)

Water vapor is somewhat self regulating though as earth's temperatures and atmospheric pressures will regulate how much water vapor stays in the air (think vapor pressure on a large scale). CO2 on the other hand, at atmospheric pressures and temperatures will remain a gas regardless since its vapor temp/pressure is much lower than water (think dry ice).

This is so foolish and arrogant. Arrogant to think that man could possibly change earth's natural weather cycles. This is bulltucky of the highest order and so ridiculous it is amazing that people actually believe it.

One might see dismissing such a possibility without scientifically evaluating it to be arrogant...

Bonfires on the beach contributing to made made global warming... So sad and pathetic. Ludicrous. Especially coming from people who are convinced they are so intellectually superior.

This is likely coming from legislators and uninformed people in the area. Not from the experts. In fact, my human ecology professor last semester indicated wood burning is a carbon neutral process as the carbon emitted from burning wood will grow back in the form of new trees (assuming the trees are not permanently removed). The issue for wood is the particulates they release. On a small scale such as bon fires and campfires though, it is really a non-issue. If anything, it might be viewed as a symbolic piece of legislation, but I would be in disagreement with it.

The reason burning fossil fuels is an issue is because were taking carbons that have been stored away within the earth and releasing it. In particular, we are releasing it in a particular form (CO2) that is being claimed to affect our greenhouse effect.

Keep in mind, I've stated before that I am undecided on the issue. But for anyone to even try and make an educated decision about it, you have to try and understand the processes. I barely scratched the surface of it in my human ecology class as MMGW was a very small part of the classes cirriculum. The issue is quite complex and cannot be summed up by a handful of articles you've read that are conveniently aligned with your take on it...

[themadscientist]

It's a red herring conceived by the true culprits!