Scion FR-S The 240SX Replacement?!

[LoserCard]

Anyone else see the new 2013 Scion FR-S? FR layout, 6-speed transmission, boxer engine, stock with 200hp @7,000rpm, and it's a coupe?! Designed by Subaru and produced by Toyota.

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!

What are you guys' thoughts on this new FR car? A bit high price tag for the tuner crowd though $25k for a manual.

Here is Scion's FR-S's website: http://www.scion.com/cars/FR-S/index.html

[abl0ck0fch33s3]

unfortunately with the economy the way it is they have to make a profit, so the price is going to be a bit high. Not to mention the startup costs for a project like this and the higher standard for today's cars (economy, safety, etc) make it more expensive to produce a sportscar. It's great, however, that they're finally starting to appeal to the enthusiasts again. In a few years time, i'm sure this car will be in the hands of every college kid. It seems like a well designed vehicle with reliability and good base characteristics, with plenty of room for upgrade.

by the time the work out the kinks from the first gen, this thing is going to be a masterpiece.

[Mercury_Hg]

151 LB.-FT @ 6,600 RPM

I'd rather have a bone stock S13, honestly. Half the reason I own a 240 is because I can tinker with it without fear of ruining a $20,000 car.

[LoserCard]

Actually the torque curve is, for the most part, level across the board according to some dyno charts. I can foresee lots of aftermarket potential for this car, although the price tag does ward me away from it a bit. Would probably make a great used car in 5-10 years and I am sure they will eventually make a turbo version/sports model with similar power to a WRX. From what I hear, the handling is what makes this car special.

[OutToWinPAHC]

I think the Nissan S16 will be the replacement...... 5 models over 5 month and one is a RWD vehicle that is supposted to be prices well below Z.

[Mercury_Hg]

Actually the torque curve is, for the most part, level across the board according to some dyno charts. I can foresee lots of aftermarket potential for this car, although the price tag does ward me away from it a bit. Would probably make a great used car in 5-10 years and I am sure they will eventually make a turbo version/sports model with similar power to a WRX. From what I hear, the handling is what makes this car special.

Intedesting.

[simmode1]

Scion FR-S The AE-86 Replacement?!

Fixed.

Plus, who gives a f*** about a 240sx replacement? I don't. Give me a Silvia successor. And the Genesis Coupe 2.0T is the closest thing to it. I'd take the Genesis coupe over the FR-S/BRZ anyday.

274hp for the 2013 model. Look at those rear fenders and tell me they don't scream S15...

[n00b240]

ROFL, ^^ Rick James on the plate

[LoserCard]

From what I am reading about the new 2013 Genesis Coupe, it still sounds like the handling is labored due to the weight, of both the 2.0T and the 3.8, like their previous years but they simply upped the power and improved suspension components. Personally I would rather have a 2662lbs 200hp nimble car than a 3362lbs 274hp brick. THAT'S 700lbs!!! I always have looked at the Genesis as a 3000GT VR4 replacement, simply a Grand Touring Sport Car with a tendency to understeer that never quite made it big, nothing more.

So, yes the 2013 FR-S sucks when it comes to power/cost, but I am gonna stick it out and hope they introduce a turbo sports model with numbers similar to a WRX STI. Plus the FR-S looks way cooler than the Genesis and has a 10 inches shorter wheel base. The FR-S is a sports car, the Genesis is a sporty car. So have fun with your boat while the rest of us stay in the game.

[simmode1]

^^^Lol... The Genesis Coupe's performance is more closely related to the G35 Coupe than a 3000GT VR4, IMO. You do understand that this is like preferring a KA powered 240sx with N/A bolt ons over a car that performs similarly to a G35 coupe yet has better options for making power?

I used to be like you... calling any car heavier than my 240 a boat and thinking lightweight trumps all... It's certainly a great weapon on a roadcourse. But on the street? The Z32TT 2+2 is another car that would be comparable to the 2013 Genesis 2.0T. Go into the 300ZX boards talking that ying yang you just said...

Not that I'm happy about it, but 3300lbs to 3400lbs is common for a sports car nowadays. The MKIV Supra, the Z32, the older GTR's, E46 M3's. Not exactly what I'd call a slow or boat-like bunch. I'll go with the car that has decent handling, can do 0-60 in about 5 seconds, can relatively easily bring home a 12 sec timeslip in the quarter and while being budget friendly.

Plus, Subaru's 5x100 lug pattern? F*** dat sh*t. For real. That's worse that 4x114.3...

[LoserCard]

You assume that they aren't going to make a sports model for the FR-S or that it wont have big aftermarket capabilities. That chassis is basically screaming for a turbo model, whether it be factory or aftermarket.

And as far as the G35 comparison, great, that car is big too to be called sporty. That thing is nothing more than a luxury sports car. Look at the WRX guys putting down 300+hp factory at 2800lbs if you want to talk about awesome street cars. Now imagine a RWD coupe with awesome handling and the capability to put out same numbers as WRX's...

Have you even driven/ridden in any of these cars you boast so highly of? Have you ever driven in a tuned WRX STI? I have and it sure feels a lot like my father-in-law's Gallardo when you step on it and it will corner like none other if you really push it. Why? Power to weight ratio (You say: "Stupid Honda Guy!", I say: "Tell that to the Elise.").

So lets take your comparisons into account:
2013 Genesis = G35 (your basically saying that it is comparable to a luxury sports car that is not quite as sporty as a 350Z)
2013 Genesis' Weight = MKIV Supra, Z32 (both of which are somewhat heavy straight line cars), and don't even try to match this up with Skylines and M3's. The way they handle their weight and power is nothing short of incredible and the Genesis is far from that with it's understeering tendencies (WTF? Is this RWD or FWD?!).

You do know that they did nothing to change the suspension geometry from the previous models right? So they basically took a sub-par chassis and gave it a track suspension and a better engine (read the earlier model reviews to see how they handled). Cool... I don't see much room for improvement as far as handling goes since it comes factory pre-modded and tuned to make the best of their bad chassis.

So basically yes your right, this is comparable to a G35. But the Silvia successor, Nissan or not, will not be a sports luxury car and definitely not the 2013 Genesis Coupe. The FR-S is already making it's way into the drifting scene and whether or not they ever release a factory turbo, people ARE going to turbo it and make the suspension better than it already is.

[simmode1]

Actually yes... I have driven or rode in Z32TT, MKIV Supra, E46 M3, G35 Coupe, Elise and STI. I have buddies who've had all of these and more at one time or another. If you aren't aware of the handling prowess of the MKIV Supra and the Z32.... Holy crap are you ignorant... The point I'm trying to make is that it will easier/cheaper to get the Genesis Coupe to a certain performance point than the FR-S/BRZ.

Both Toyota and Subaru have gone on record saying they have no plans to use forced induction on this car from the factory. It's a no brainer that the aftermarket will respond and offer options instead. But I'd rather just have the car set up for forced induction right out of the gate. Not sure if you've ever built a turbo KA or turbo'd an S2000, but NA to turbo projects can be a real PITA. And you can forget about keeping your warranty if you want to boost your FR-S. I'm not even gonna waste time talking about it's N/A bolt on potential...

I'd rather deal with improving handling tendancies via coilovers, camber arms, tie rods, wheel/tire combos, etc any day rather than mess with trying to make a motor do something radically different than it was engineered to do by people much smarter than me. Kudos to the guys who are successful with their N/A to turbo projects, but I'd rather just start with a car already optimized for boost. Genesis guys are already making over 550whp on factory internal with the OLD motor and their 2.0 is even torquier than KA-T's...

You got two cars here, right around the same price point. The FR-S really shines at handling corners. But it's gonna get walked on straightaways and on the street. The FR-S isn't a bad car at all, but it is not a spiritual successor to the S-Chassis. Not that I care, though. I'm just all about which ever car will reach my desired performance goal with the least amount of money and effort.

[LoserCard]

To each his own, I wasn't trying to turn this into an argument. Both cars WILL be good some way or another and we can leave it at that. Nissan just needs to release the damn S16 already and make it affordable for the rest of us.

[simmode1]

^^^I can definently agree with that. If I hadn't read about Subaru/Toyota torpedoing any plans for forced induction, I'd be singing a different tune, I assure you. The Genesis Coupe is FAAAAAAR from perfect... lol... To be honest, what I'm really looking forward to is BMW dropping their new N20 engine into the 128i. Now that would seriously be worth the money, IMO. If they can bring that in at a little under $30k, Imma go nuts for it...

[The_caveman]

I read nothing but the title. My desicion Epic Fail

Why?

I'll never let a subi-ota Replace my s chassis,nissan did it right in the 90's. Now all the copycats are flooding out due to demand for these old rwd cars. Nissan just hasn't caught on or just doesn't car too,so untill i see a s16 i will stick to an s13 s14 for fun and not waste money on a pointless new sports car with payments required,

[pepesilvia]

i saw the fr-s and br-z at the new york auto show this year. sat in both and even popped the hood somehow (even though they clearly didnt want you to because the whole hood mechanism was missing... but i was still able to catch a glimpse)... nothing special. felt like i was sitting in a genesis coupe... and yeah, the price tag deterred me a little... i'm gonna wait for nissan to make the RIGHT decision and buy an s16 if it comes out. NISSAN FO LIFE

p.s. i can find some pics if y'all are interested

[simmode1]

nissan did it right in the 90's. Now all the copycats are flooding out due to demand for these old rwd cars.

Nissan wasn't the first with a RWD 2+2 sports coupe in the market. Nor the first to offer a turbo with that setup either. Not sure what was the first, but there was the Starion/Conquest, GNX, Porsche 944, etc... Nissan is a copycat too. They probably just made the cheapest & most durable one at that time...

To be honest, I'd loooove to have a Porsche 944 and swap an STi motor into it. Look at dem sexy fenders...

[jbracy7]

Nissan has no plans to under cut the 370z buy making a slightly cheaper rwd platform, there no need right now, but hey carlos might get fed up one day and build us want we want, but it's proberbly going to be a 180sx that returns, not a 240.... Sad realty

[simmode1]

^^^Thats what I keep saying! The Z is cheap enough that there really isn't a need for a Silvia/240 successor. However with Hyundai, Audi, and BMW all starting to offer 2.0 turbo 4 bangers in their base models, maybe Nissan might change it's tune.

If they take the Z just a little bit more upmarket like they've been doing, that would make room for a new Silvia. I mean, was the base Z33 like $26k when they first came out? Now a base Z34 is like $32k or something. Next gen might see the base Z at something like $36k. Who knows? Pricing like that might neccessitate a new entry level RWD offering with 2.0 turbo 4.

But I don't really see this happening unless the Z34's sales fall off big time.

[asoomal]

The Z is around 40 grand...

They need to make something in the low 20 range...

[jbracy7]

Agreed, I'd pay 20-26k for a new rwd nissan 2.4 direct injected n/a or 2.0 turbo.


Ps 185-200 ft-lbs is a must anything less is a waste

[orangeNblue]

I would definitely by an S16, granted they don't look like some of the pictures I saw when I googled it. A $22-25k, rwd, 4 cyl 2.4 or 2.0 turbo would be the car most of us S chassis lovers would upgrade to, as long as its an upgrade.

I've owned 2 350z's and 2 240sx's and there is a definitely difference between the 2. The 350z is more of a raw power feel and is Nissan's sports car comparison because to me its kinda like the poor man's porsche. The 240sx is more of an all around, fun to drive daily, entry level sports car. There really isn't a comparison for it because well its kinda a one of a kind, though I guess it could be like the civics and integras just much, much better.

I think Nissan is missing out on a great market here with not currently having a rwd 4 cyl option. Most of us that have grown up with 240's are getting jobs and bringing in more cash. Plus most of us are looking for a new more practical daily (at least I know I am). Considering how many S chassis fans are there, I think it's about time Nissan pushes something out, because I believe it'll sell like crazy.

[jbracy7]

We're members of the largest nissan community in the world, If we can't get it done no one can

[asoomal]

The rich can.

At the end of the day, it's all about how much profit you're making.

[jbracy7]

When the people don't care nothing changes, rich people can't do any better money doesn't solve problems just helps buy time, untell more money is needed

[orangeNblue]

If there is a large demand for it (money) then nissan would be more inclined to produce it. But the money would have to be there in order to start a project like this one. I think nissan has the thought to make the car but is probably waiting to see how well the BRZ/FR-S does before it provides anything more than a concept.

[simmode1]

The Z is around 40 grand...

They need to make something in the low 20 range...

The ranger topper Nismo Z is around $40k. But yeah, we're all in agreement. The Z has increased in price too much to be considered an entry level sports car any more.

If Nissan is really waiting for the verdict to come back on the FR-S/BRZ, then they better get a move on, because those cars are flying out of the dealerships and are on back order like crazy. They're a critical success before they've even hit the streets in the US.

I think they should price a 200hp N/A version at around $21k using whatever motor that is in the Sentra SE-R and offer a turbo version matching the Genesis coupe's 2.0T price ($26k) and output. Silvia K's and Q's models...

You guys looking over the Genesis Coupe puzzle me. I was at the gas station last night filling up my red S14 Zenki as a red 1st gen 2.0T GC was pulling out of the same station. Dude put on a little show for me... All I could hear was the turbo spooling and the BOV blowing off as he chirped the rear tires down the street. Sh*t sounded and looked beautiful. Made me want to douse my S14 in gas and light it on fire.

[asoomal]

In Canada, base MSRP is $40 9xxx

The base V8 Mustang with the 5.0 is under $34 000...

V6 Stang is under $22 000

FR-S is priced just under $26 000.

Canadian prices.

[simmode1]

I really don't understand why this isn't getting much attention from 240 drivers... Its like a damn futuristic SR20... 270whp and 330ft/lbs on the stock turbo and development is still ongoing... Geezus.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... tMFcM5qd_Y#![/youtube]
(Is embedding broken?)

This is on a 1st gen GC. I hear the 2nd gen is using some integrated turbo+exhaust manifold setup. Not sure if I like that. Still trying to determine which engine has more budget potential...

[asoomal]

If it's not under $2500, most 240 owners won't care lol