SAFC and distributor timing retard

[farlsmagee6]

Okay... I use the search button religiously, so this is the last resort.

I am wondering if it is accepted practice to adjust timing at the distributor for low boost - 8-9 psi - with only the use of an SAFC. I hear that no timing adjustment is needed for somewhere near or less than 5 or 6 psi, but I've also read that many people use the MSD to start pulling timing as early as 2 psi.

I am running a turbonetics t3/t4 .57 trim internally gated at 8psi - no ecu tune and SAFC only. I am not looking to make huge numbers but more concerned with driveability and smoothness. How much effect will timing adjustment at the distributor have on non-boost driving? Also what effects will such an adjustment have on the efficiency/safety of the setup?

I've read that some people just run AFC's and just retard timing around 2 degrees... is this a safe bet for a daily driven car for the next six months?

forgive my noobness

[ghx407]

A safe bet is to retard your ignition timing 1 degree for every pound of boost over 6psi.

[farlsmagee6]

so a 2* retard of base timing should do it you think?

anybody had experience with a similar setup? The biggest thing Im worried about is that dammn internal wastegate not venting enough and causing boost creep. Also, idle control, low throttle response and off-boost deceleration are areas where I've heard people have problems with this kind of setup. More or less Im just trying to gauge people's satisfaction with similar setups. That and people more knowlegeable than myself might forsee other problems that I could be thinking about as well...

[S13FX]

build your self one of those over boost protectors and you should be fine

[ghx407]

If your're gonna run 8psi max 2 degrees off base timing should be fine. Base timing for your car is 20 BTDC, if I'm not mistaken, so you should be looking for 18 BTDC. An overboost protector is also a great idea. Low throttle response probably won't be an issue. If you run into idle control and decelaration problems, they probably won't be that serious and you'll most likely be able to correct them with the SAFC.

[Craving4Boost]

do you have 91 or 93 octane as the highest offered...

[farlsmagee6]

you think the higher octane would be enough to offset a timing issue? is that what youre getting at? Id rather be safe and retard it just to be sure

Other than that thanks for the input. I'll just retard it 2* like I thought in the first place and tune it with the AFC.

my biggest fear now is either overboost and/or boost creep, but it seems like people have had good results with the size turbo I am going with, so maybe I'm just getting a little too worried about creep issues.

[S13FX]

Here you go bro this works great

zerothread?id=148380

[ghx407]

At least 91 octane, preferably 93, and SAFC tune, and 2 degs. off base timing.

[sunnys14]

well, in my experience, please retard your timing 5 degrees if u are going to boost around 10psi. it will save you a motor in the long run. i barely felt a difference when i retarded 5 degrees on 91 octane. on 93 octane u should be able to squeeze in a lil more timing, so retard about 3-4 degrees for your 8-9 psi.

[farlsmagee6]

no one thinks thats too much? what's your experience been?

[Florida240sx]

Retard 3 degrees if 93oct 4 degrees if 91octGot a wideband to tune?

[farlsmagee6]

yeah...

ill do 4 degrees then. we'll find out today

[Neejay]

Retard 3 degrees if 93oct 4 degrees if 91octGot a wideband to tune?

How much do you recommend for 7psi?

[crzycav86]

I had my timing retarded 4* at 11-12 psi for quite a while. I recently turned the boost up to 15(it drops off to 12) and didn't adjust the timing.

[Craving4Boost]

ugh I hate having to retard timing...it's no fun. WD, come up with that DIY alky injection kit already damnit!

maybe the holiday spirit will motivate you?

[S13FX]

wouldn't this do? Thats what I'm planing on buying here pretty soon I'm sure this will work pretty well.

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs...47_-1

[Florida240sx]

How much do you recommend for 7psi?

What's your set-up and octane?

[Neejay]

What's your set-up and octane?

Sorry, didn't get a email notification...

Will be:T3/T04e 50 trim/.48 AR, SAFCII, MSD BTM, SR20 smic, Tial 38mm, N60 MAFs, 460cc, walboro. 93 octane is the highest available here.

Wastegate has a 7.25psi spring, so I doub't I'll be going higher than that with the SMIC. When I go FMIC, I might up the boost to 10-12...

[sunnys14]

no one thinks thats too much? what's your experience been?

my experience? hmmm i dont know where to start... ive been thru 3 ka's. 2 stock, 1 built. 2 different turbo setups (t3/t04e, t04b...), 2 different fuel setups (stock injectors+fmu, 480cc+safc2+wideband+msd btm)... is that enough for u?

[Biggamehit]

I am set at 16* at 8psi, havent had any issues at all. and all I use is 93 from sunoco and at the track 104

[Edub1]

Why not just break down and buy a damn BTM.

The new ones have a start point that allows you to set when (up to 5lbs) to start pulling timing. I'll be starting at 5 and pulling 1* per lb for a total of -10* at 15lbs.

[WDRacing]

Why not just break down and buy a damn BTM.

The new ones have a start point that allows you to set when (up to 5lbs) to start pulling timing. I'll be starting at 5 and pulling 1* per lb for a total of -10* at 15lbs.

My thoughts exactly bro

[turbo2nr]

i heard bad things about the btm and obd2. i really wanted to go this route but i hear that the obd2 ecu pulls crazy amount of timing on its own at random, and the btm pulls timing as well so the total timing pulled is alot.

is this true? can the btm only work well on the obd1 ka24de? ireally dont have enought for a tuned ecu right now. i really want to use the btm. but i dont want to be pulling alot of timing..

[WDRacing]

If the OBD2 ECU is pulling timing out randomly, its because you're car is broken...

I've run one with excellent results. Give it a shot man

[Neejay]

Why not just break down and buy a damn BTM.

The new ones have a start point that allows you to set when (up to 5lbs) to start pulling timing. I'll be starting at 5 and pulling 1* per lb for a total of -10* at 15lbs.

So you say that -1 per lb? I don't have a new BTM and Im not going to buy one. I've gotten conflicting opinions so far (1lb, 2, and even 3).

With 460cc's, SAFCII, and a BTM, what timing should I pull @ 7.25spi? Im thinking 2?

[WDRacing]

So you say that -1 per lb? I don't have a new BTM and Im not going to buy one. I've gotten conflicting opinions so far (1lb, 2, and even 3).

With 460cc's, SAFCII, and a BTM, what timing should I pull @ 7.25spi? Im thinking 2?

So you say that -1 per lb? I don't have a new BTM and Im not going to buy one. I've gotten conflicting opinions so far (1lb, 2, and even 3).

With 460cc's, SAFCII, and a BTM, what timing should I pull @ 7.25spi? Im thinking 2?

You do know that the 1-2-3 marks mean 1,2 or 3 degree's of retard per lb of boost. So at 8 psi of boost you'll be losing 16* of timing...thats no good bro. I run half way to the 1, so about .5 degree's of retard per lb of boost. I run AFR's in the 12's and 14 lbs of boost on 91 octane fuel.

Think about timing retard like this, you don't even actually need it until you boost past 6 psi, but I've run 9 with no issues. But thats on my car with a knock meter. So, set it to the 1 and you'll be way safe.

On a Nitrous powered car we retard timing 2 degree's per 100hp shot. Thats about 10 psi of boost through a decent turbo.

WD

[Neejay]

You do know that the 1-2-3 marks mean 1,2 or 3 degree's of retard per lb of boost. So at 8 psi of boost you'll be losing 16* of timing...thats no good bro. I run half way to the 1, so about .5 degree's of retard per lb of boost. I run AFR's in the 12's and 14 lbs of boost on 91 octane fuel.

Think about timing retard like this, you don't even actually need it until you boost past 6 psi, but I've run 9 with no issues. But thats on my car with a knock meter. So, set it to the 1 and you'll be way safe.

On a Nitrous powered car we retard timing 2 degree's per 100hp shot. Thats about 10 psi of boost through a decent turbo.

WD

Ohhhh...ok. So retarding timing manual is different than the 1-2-3 on the BTM? Ok, so just turn the dial to 1 on the control and I'm set?

[WDRacing]

Roger that man...1 is all you need at 7psi.

[lrb_2000]

I run 16*btdc @ 12psi... I'm probably being pretty safe though, i'm sure it should be fine up to 15psi.