MasterMan wrote:time for the US to move in a start sucking the country dry of all of its oil.. but hey, look on teh bright side maby now the gas prices will drop..
Yup can't wait to pump that dirt cheap blood ... wait I mean Gas into my 240.
Saddam - OWNED
That is one beat-a** looking guy.He is so f**ked, and he knows it.
We'll probably only hear about 10% of it, but I'd love to know all the info they get out of him.
I also read an article on Yahoo that cracked me up. Saddam supporters called him a coward and disgrace for not putting up a fight, and some were just astonished that this almost mythical figure was in a dirt hole under a farm.
Imagine being in palaces for 25+ years of your life, and end up having to live in a dirt hole avoiding Americans for almost a year. That must stink.
We'll probably only hear about 10% of it, but I'd love to know all the info they get out of him.
I also read an article on Yahoo that cracked me up. Saddam supporters called him a coward and disgrace for not putting up a fight, and some were just astonished that this almost mythical figure was in a dirt hole under a farm.
Imagine being in palaces for 25+ years of your life, and end up having to live in a dirt hole avoiding Americans for almost a year. That must stink.
Saddam has just been freed. SH hires celebrity lawyer Johnny Cochrane. Cochrane establishes that because the United States essentially acted illegally without getting permission under international law to invade Iraq and because there was no case for self defence due to an absence of WMD and conclusive links to anti US terrorists that Saddam was arrested illegally. SH walks away a free man.
Dean made a good point today (backed up by the financial markets) that the capture of SH really has changed nothing regarding the threat of terrorism against the US.
Except for invading Kuwait (for which he got his *** handed to him) and gassing Kurds (Turkey, a NATO ally has been fighting the Kurds for years), SH was killing radical Muslims bent upon the establishment of another Islamic theocracy a la Iran. He was allowed to do this with the tacet approval of the West for years and years.
It is complete spin to all of a sudden start claiming that the invasion of Iraq was to free these same poor Iraqis whose extermination we stood by and quietly watched because it furthered our own ends namely, the quashing of radical Islamists.
Face it folks, SH was never a threat to US security. Some think he was a powerful Muslim so he had to be an enemy of the US. SH was secular and about as devout a Muslim as Clinton was a devout Christian. SH's Iraq had nothing to gain by starting an unwinnable war with a superpower. A terrorlst attack, no matter how severe, would ever destroy the US but it would mean certain destruction for the sponser state. SH was an a$$hole but he wasn't stupid.
Now bin Laden is entirely a different story. However, it is incredible that so many lump BL and SH in the same boat. They represent diametrically opposed philosphies. One of radical Islam and the other of a kind of stylized Stalinism. Apples and oranges.
Well? Will all this lead to the establishment of a new Islamic theocracy in Iraq? Will Iraqis forever mistrust the US as an agressive imperial power? Will the middle east forever mistrust the US? Time will tell.
Dean made a good point today (backed up by the financial markets) that the capture of SH really has changed nothing regarding the threat of terrorism against the US.
Except for invading Kuwait (for which he got his *** handed to him) and gassing Kurds (Turkey, a NATO ally has been fighting the Kurds for years), SH was killing radical Muslims bent upon the establishment of another Islamic theocracy a la Iran. He was allowed to do this with the tacet approval of the West for years and years.
It is complete spin to all of a sudden start claiming that the invasion of Iraq was to free these same poor Iraqis whose extermination we stood by and quietly watched because it furthered our own ends namely, the quashing of radical Islamists.
Face it folks, SH was never a threat to US security. Some think he was a powerful Muslim so he had to be an enemy of the US. SH was secular and about as devout a Muslim as Clinton was a devout Christian. SH's Iraq had nothing to gain by starting an unwinnable war with a superpower. A terrorlst attack, no matter how severe, would ever destroy the US but it would mean certain destruction for the sponser state. SH was an a$$hole but he wasn't stupid.
Now bin Laden is entirely a different story. However, it is incredible that so many lump BL and SH in the same boat. They represent diametrically opposed philosphies. One of radical Islam and the other of a kind of stylized Stalinism. Apples and oranges.
Well? Will all this lead to the establishment of a new Islamic theocracy in Iraq? Will Iraqis forever mistrust the US as an agressive imperial power? Will the middle east forever mistrust the US? Time will tell.
There's the rub. The invasion of Iraq was about oil but it wasn't about giving cheap oil away. If Iraq manages to get its oil industry up and running (barring sabotage attacks), the extra supply will be sold at world prices. Iraq will probably rejoin OPEC and suply will be controlled. However, the prize is that Iraq's 300 billion barrels of oil will be sold in US$.89240sx wrote:Yup can't wait to pump that dirt cheap blood ... wait I mean Gas into my 240.
Both Russia and Saudi are considering moving to the Euro$ for oil sales. Iraq was doing business in Euro$ prior to the invasion. It is important for US business interests that the US$ be used as the standard currency for oil transactions. That allows the treasury to print money based upon future oil sales all over the world. Moving to the Euro$ curtails that ability and suddenly the US would be forced to come face to face with it's incredible debt. No new dollars could be printed to service the debt based on future oil sales.
Follow the money.
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Onizuka
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Im just glad the Saddam Hussein and his cohorts will finally be able to be put on trial by iraqi's in a iraqi tribunal for the murder of 300,000 civilians as the mass graves found suggest, the slaughter of the kurdish villiage with use of chemical wepons, the use of secret police and tortue chambers, and several other war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Im glad our troops didnt leave iraq, they have come so far and accomplished so much, them leaving would have ment no captured saddam, no protection for international aid workers, and a host of other problems guarenteed if we left. The capture of saddam has led to more international support from out allies, notably the contribution of more troops from the likes of japan.
As I look at the numerous articles on the joyous iraqi people and international leaders in todays edition of The New York Times I fill with joy. Im glad that we are continuing the most successful military campaign the world has ever seen. Im glad that people realise that smoking kills more US citizens in one day than the entire war and aftermath in iraq and would rather protest a cigarette company than a US fighting force doing good for the 20 million people of a country.
Im glad our troops didnt leave iraq, they have come so far and accomplished so much, them leaving would have ment no captured saddam, no protection for international aid workers, and a host of other problems guarenteed if we left. The capture of saddam has led to more international support from out allies, notably the contribution of more troops from the likes of japan.
As I look at the numerous articles on the joyous iraqi people and international leaders in todays edition of The New York Times I fill with joy. Im glad that we are continuing the most successful military campaign the world has ever seen. Im glad that people realise that smoking kills more US citizens in one day than the entire war and aftermath in iraq and would rather protest a cigarette company than a US fighting force doing good for the 20 million people of a country.
J-Spec Tuner wrote:slaughter of the kurdish villiage with use of chemical wepons,
Interesting development from SH's debriefing today. Chulabi, the Iraqi American carpet bagger revealed some of the things SH said to interogators. His spokesman said that when he was asked about the attack on the Kurdish villages SH said it was an Iranian attack.
Well, if you have been a member of this site for a while, you will recall a certain extremely well informed post by a particular member (not me) who said that analysis of the chemicals used in the Kurdish attacks had the hallmarks of Iranian manufacture.
You must be aware that the Turks, Iraqis and Iranians have all been attacking the Kurds for years. Not all is as it seems or as it is purported.
By the way, where are those WMD that the administration went to war over anyway?
Remember, too, that the US killed well over a million people in Viet Nam. Just trying to keep things in perspective here.
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Onizuka
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I dont give a flying **** what saddam says, he also said that he was a just and fair leader and that he did nothing wrong.
Vietnam is the past, this is a new army, a new leadership, and a new set of warfare ethics. Are you going to use the same logic with the germans? They murderd 6 million jews just 60 years ago but you dont see anybody holding that against them because they have changed.
Vietnam is the past, this is a new army, a new leadership, and a new set of warfare ethics. Are you going to use the same logic with the germans? They murderd 6 million jews just 60 years ago but you dont see anybody holding that against them because they have changed.
Simmer down J-Spec. SH has claimed things and the administration has claimed things. Some things stand up to scurtiny and some things don't. There have indeed been certain things claimed by both sides to advance their agendas that don't stand up to objective analysis.
The object of the war as put to congress and the UN was the threat posed by WMD. Many things have been said about these WMD: where they were "definitely located", where they were used and by whom, etc. The sad fact remains that nothing has changed. The danger of terrorism remains the same as it was. Perhaps atacks will abate somewhat on the troops in Iraq but the scourge of terrorism remains. Iraq was not the center of anti US terrorlst activity despite what some may say.
Do not be distracted by those who say, "The war on terror started on 9-11 and Iraq is the center of the war on terror." Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 so the mantra is a good example of circular logic.
We have a tough time judging the sensibilities of the Arab world where there is an adage, "It is better to endure 1000 years of tyranny than one year of uncertainty." Our Western sensibilities do not serve us well when it comes to understanding the oriental mind. "East is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet."
The object of the war as put to congress and the UN was the threat posed by WMD. Many things have been said about these WMD: where they were "definitely located", where they were used and by whom, etc. The sad fact remains that nothing has changed. The danger of terrorism remains the same as it was. Perhaps atacks will abate somewhat on the troops in Iraq but the scourge of terrorism remains. Iraq was not the center of anti US terrorlst activity despite what some may say.
Do not be distracted by those who say, "The war on terror started on 9-11 and Iraq is the center of the war on terror." Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 so the mantra is a good example of circular logic.
We have a tough time judging the sensibilities of the Arab world where there is an adage, "It is better to endure 1000 years of tyranny than one year of uncertainty." Our Western sensibilities do not serve us well when it comes to understanding the oriental mind. "East is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet."
The REAL one?
His capture is timely for the Bush administration. It comes at a time when many are saying that Iraq IS a 21st century Vietnam, and there are rumors floating of the draft coming up in 2005. It'll be interesting to see what sort of impact his capture has on the "insurgency" (author's note: isn't it weird that the local forces indiginous to the country are being framed as insurgents? Doesn't insurgent imply some sort of foreign involvement?)
If it's the real Saddam and not one of his look alikes, we should have this "war" pretty much all wrapped up by the end of next year. The 30+ daily attacks against our troops should taper off to a trickle, and nearly cease all together once the Iraqi Security Force, or whatever they end up calling the poor bastards drafted into the responsibility of maintaining law and order in their recently "freed" country. I sure hope that's the case!! The troops need to come home.
If it's the real Saddam and not one of his look alikes, we should have this "war" pretty much all wrapped up by the end of next year. The 30+ daily attacks against our troops should taper off to a trickle, and nearly cease all together once the Iraqi Security Force, or whatever they end up calling the poor bastards drafted into the responsibility of maintaining law and order in their recently "freed" country. I sure hope that's the case!! The troops need to come home.
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Onizuka
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You are going to have to live with the fact that there will ALWAYS be US troops in Iraq from this point forward, along with US bases just like there is in japan, germany, and every other country the US has ever conquered. US solders are just as safe there as we are driving our cars on the road, the only difference is they are way more qualified and prepared to do what they are doing. When they join the army they know what they are getting into, they dont sign up to stay in the safety of their home with their mommys close by, they sign up to be trained as killers, or to provide the infrastructure for trained killers. Wishing for the safety of US troops is a lame excuse to end the US occupation of iraq.
Im tired of hearing the same old "there are no WMD's" argment over and over again as if thats going to change something. Live in the now, protest something that will make a difference, not something that should have been in question months ago. The capture of saddam hussein should shed some light on this question anyway.
I also see zero similarities between iraq and vietnam other than US involvment.
Im tired of hearing the same old "there are no WMD's" argment over and over again as if thats going to change something. Live in the now, protest something that will make a difference, not something that should have been in question months ago. The capture of saddam hussein should shed some light on this question anyway.
I also see zero similarities between iraq and vietnam other than US involvment.
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ShadowKnight006
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Lightening the mood.......
Just to lighten things up in here, I thought everyone might get a kick out of this like song parody out of a radio station in Cincinnatti.
CLICK HERE FOR MP3 (56K WARNING)
Their website is http://www.webn.com this song and another are in the downloads section.
OK let the serious political stuff commence........
CLICK HERE FOR MP3 (56K WARNING)
Their website is http://www.webn.com this song and another are in the downloads section.
OK let the serious political stuff commence........
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skydragoness
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92' 240sx 60k survivor :) - Location: North DFW, TEJAS
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VimyJ wrote:We have a tough time judging the sensibilities of the Arab world where there is an adage, "It is better to endure 1000 years of tyranny than one year of uncertainty." Our Western sensibilities do not serve us well when it comes to understanding the oriental mind. "East is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet."
Was that not a ancient chinese quote? As they have had endured long reigns as well.
You make a good point VimyJ.
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Onizuka
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If that be the case, then now iraqi's have the chance to vote in any tyrant they want.
You are right about one thing, i cannot understand the williness of a person to accept a life time of oppression, death and despare. Like a prisoner serving a life sentence, some grow to accept their confinment and are unable to function when let free.
You are right about one thing, i cannot understand the williness of a person to accept a life time of oppression, death and despare. Like a prisoner serving a life sentence, some grow to accept their confinment and are unable to function when let free.
Let's at least try to look at things objectively. There are 130k US troops in Iraq. 456 have died in 7 months. That is a pretty high traffic death rate. 3000 have been maimed. Again a very high "traffic" injury rate.
One of the reasons Iraqis are having so much trouble getting a constitution dafted is the reality of the political situation there. 60% of Iraq is Shia. Of the alleged 300k dead in the mass graves (still some dispute about whether there are a lot of casualites from the Iraq/Iraq war buried in these sites) most are Shi'ite. The Shia wanted to establish an Iranian style theocracy. They may finally get their wish. Or if that is not acceptable to the occupying power, they won't. Then we are left with another Iran situation with a US backed puppet regime that will fail a la Iran.
The WMD question has been protested from the start. I'm sure the admin hopes it just goes away counting on the infamously short memory of the US electorate. WMD was the justification for the invasion after all. Where is this threat? Hmmm.....
One of the reasons Iraqis are having so much trouble getting a constitution dafted is the reality of the political situation there. 60% of Iraq is Shia. Of the alleged 300k dead in the mass graves (still some dispute about whether there are a lot of casualites from the Iraq/Iraq war buried in these sites) most are Shi'ite. The Shia wanted to establish an Iranian style theocracy. They may finally get their wish. Or if that is not acceptable to the occupying power, they won't. Then we are left with another Iran situation with a US backed puppet regime that will fail a la Iran.
The WMD question has been protested from the start. I'm sure the admin hopes it just goes away counting on the infamously short memory of the US electorate. WMD was the justification for the invasion after all. Where is this threat? Hmmm.....
Personally, I don't care if we never find WMD. All I know is that Suddam was killing millions not hundreds of thousands of people. The number I think right now is around 2 million people dead at his hands. Not to mention the people tortured, raped, and mutilated.
It wasn't necessarily about Iraq having WMD it was about Iraq's disregard of several resolutions passed by the United Nations. The United States was the only one who had the balls to inforce the resolutions. Also, Russia and France didn't want to us to invade Iraq due to them supplying Iraq with night vision, weapons, and weapon technology.
It wasn't necessarily about Iraq having WMD it was about Iraq's disregard of several resolutions passed by the United Nations. The United States was the only one who had the balls to inforce the resolutions. Also, Russia and France didn't want to us to invade Iraq due to them supplying Iraq with night vision, weapons, and weapon technology.
I take it then that you could care less that the admin lied about the reasons for war? Were you crying yourself to sleep about the plight of the poor Muslims in Iraq for the last 20 years?
Those "2 million" people who died during SH's rule resulted mostly from the Iran/Iraq war that went on with our tacet approval for years because it suited our political ends. Namely, proping up a secular regime against spreading Islamic revolution.
BTW, those were UN resolutions not US resolutions. Having balls is not an excuse to invade a country. That is exactly what SH thought he was accomplishing by invading Kuwait. Showing his big balls. LOL! As far as the resolutions are concerned, they demanded that Iraq rid itself of WMD. Well, it sure looks like they did just that so what UN resolutions are you refering to?
France, Germany and Russia did have their own selfish reasons for vetoing a UN sanctioned invasion of Iraq not the least of which was a serious lack of evidence regarding a credible threat. What were the administration's real reasons for invading Iraq? Hmmm.......
Those "2 million" people who died during SH's rule resulted mostly from the Iran/Iraq war that went on with our tacet approval for years because it suited our political ends. Namely, proping up a secular regime against spreading Islamic revolution.
BTW, those were UN resolutions not US resolutions. Having balls is not an excuse to invade a country. That is exactly what SH thought he was accomplishing by invading Kuwait. Showing his big balls. LOL! As far as the resolutions are concerned, they demanded that Iraq rid itself of WMD. Well, it sure looks like they did just that so what UN resolutions are you refering to?
France, Germany and Russia did have their own selfish reasons for vetoing a UN sanctioned invasion of Iraq not the least of which was a serious lack of evidence regarding a credible threat. What were the administration's real reasons for invading Iraq? Hmmm.......