S14 Total Electrical Failure (Starter Related)

Post by **Sil40_Mayhem** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:17 am

First off, I screwed up royally, and I need serious help. Note: I am a complete and total electrical n00b, so responses like "check the grounds" and "check fuses and relays" will need to be much more detailed. I have a rudimentary knowledge of how to use a multimeter, but I may need guidance on where to place the leads for specific grounds, and whatnot. Now for the details:

- 95 S14 base manual- car is completely dead electrically (interior, ignition, lighting, etc)- ~11.96V on the battery- all of the fuses I thought to check seem fine (12V, starter, IGN, 75A, 30A IGN, and a few others)

The story:

The starter died recently. I was doing my best as a (mostly) fearless non-mechanical type, and struggled putting in a new one. I attached the ground to it (I believe that's the round doo-dad with the rubber boot over it) to one of the posts on the solenoid (the one NOT already connected to the starter motor). However, I forgot to connect the (power?) harness. I then cleaned the battery terminals with a one of those wire brush things you scrub the posts with, as well as the connectors on the battery cables. Hooked up the positive, then the negative. As I was hooking up the negative, it sparked like the 4th of July. I thought it was because of the freshly-cleaned terminals giving it better connectivity. Anyway, within seconds, there was a wisp of white smoke from around the area of the starter. I disconnected the the negative cable, crawled under the car, and attached the harness. Reattached the battery cable (again loads of sparks), and voila: dead car. Really dead. I mean being at ground zero of a nuclear bombing dead. No power without the key, none at ACC, none at ON, and none at START.

I searched (both here and Google), and got some ideas, but nothing's panning out. Like I said, I'm almost as noob as noob can be with electrical stuff. I'm confident that I fried something closer to the battery side (near the fuse/relay box), as it affects the whole car, not just a subsystem or two. What can I check, and how can I check it? For one, I haven't checked the relays (big block things with the blue caps in the fuse box) as I have no idea how to get in them, and I don't want to risk tearing something up. Also, I'm sure one of the things I would have to test for is a short. I presume this would involve starting at the battery, and tracing the wiring until I stop getting voltage. The problem is, I don't know how I should go about doing that. Does it involve cutting shielding off and exposing copper to get a multimeter lead in there? Or is there a better/easier smarter way? Also, am I right in thinking I would have to hook up the battery to get a reading in the first place?

Bottom line is I screwed this up, I want to fix it, and I'm willing to try and accept advice. I just may require a little (okay, okay, a lot) of hand-holding. Thanks for reading my sordid tale of trial, tribulation, joy, and suffering.

Post by **onepuff** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:10 pm

You can start checking the continuity of the wiring. Set your multimeter to read ohms and put the leads on each end of one of the wires. It should zero out or have very little resistance. Post some pics of how you have the starter hooked up. The starter grounds to the engine block. Someone correct me if i'm wrong. Hopefully you didn't fry too much of your wiring/electrical system. You might have to pull the fusebox out a little and open it up. It's kind of a PITA but the fuse/relay holders will come out of the box. You should be able to get a lead from the multimeter in the fuse terminals without doing that though, to check the continuity of the wiring.

Post by **Sil40_Mayhem** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:59 pm

Thanks for the assist. After finally getting some time to get back at it (what with waiting on rain, working, and being extremely ill for a week), I am in much better spirits. I've never been so glad to be so wrong in my life! I removed the new starter tonight to see if any wiring on it got fried, and on a whim I decided to hook my battery back up. Wouldn't you know it? Electrical power flows through the car again. My guess is the starter itself was causing the short.

Anywho, after the little smoke show, I'm going to see if I can get it tested before I wrestle it back in. Since I'll be waiting to see if whether or not I need to buy yet another starter, I wanted to get a definite answer on something: the ground for the starter.

I think this is the ground for the starter. It was on the top bolt of the starter that came out of the car, so that's where I put it on the new one. A few questions:

1. Is this actually the ground? It's got this rubberized coating on it.2. Does it need to be bent a certain way so that it does/does not make contact with the block or bell housing?3. If so, should it be touching the block or the bell housing, or does it matter?

If you can even get me a pic of proper installation of this doohickey, that would be even better.

Thanks for helping, thanks for reading. I'm profoundly glad to have (so far) not screwed up royally (at least not as bad as I thought).

Post by **onepuff** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:49 am

Nooooooooooooooo that is not the ground. That is a strap to keep wires held in place so they don't flop around. The starter consists of the motor(the big cylinder) and the solenoid(the small cylinder). The solenoid should have a very short wire going to the motor housing of the starter. The starter grounds to the engine block when it is bolted up. There should be 2 positive connections on the starter. One thick wire(2 or 4 AWG) providing constant power and a small spade connector which provides the start signal when you turn the key.

Post by **bruinbear714** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:24 am

Sil40_Mayhem wrote:First off, I screwed up royally, and I need serious help. Note: I am a complete and total electrical n00b, so responses like "check the grounds" and "check fuses and relays" will need to be much more detailed. I have a rudimentary knowledge of how to use a multimeter, but I may need guidance on where to place the leads for specific grounds, and whatnot. Now for the details:

- 95 S14 base manual- car is completely dead electrically (interior, ignition, lighting, etc)- ~11.96V on the battery- all of the fuses I thought to check seem fine (12V, starter, IGN, 75A, 30A IGN, and a few others)

The story:

The starter died recently. I was doing my best as a (mostly) fearless non-mechanical type, and struggled putting in a new one. I attached the ground to it (I believe that's the round doo-dad with the rubber boot over it) to one of the posts on the solenoid (the one NOT already connected to the starter motor). However, I forgot to connect the (power?) harness. I then cleaned the battery terminals with a one of those wire brush things you scrub the posts with, as well as the connectors on the battery cables. Hooked up the positive, then the negative. As I was hooking up the negative, it sparked like the 4th of July. I thought it was because of the freshly-cleaned terminals giving it better connectivity. Anyway, within seconds, there was a wisp of white smoke from around the area of the starter. I disconnected the the negative cable, crawled under the car, and attached the harness. Reattached the battery cable (again loads of sparks), and voila: dead car. Really dead. I mean being at ground zero of a nuclear bombing dead. No power without the key, none at ACC, none at ON, and none at START.

I searched (both here and Google), and got some ideas, but nothing's panning out. Like I said, I'm almost as noob as noob can be with electrical stuff. I'm confident that I fried something closer to the battery side (near the fuse/relay box), as it affects the whole car, not just a subsystem or two. What can I check, and how can I check it? For one, I haven't checked the relays (big block things with the blue caps in the fuse box) as I have no idea how to get in them, and I don't want to risk tearing something up. Also, I'm sure one of the things I would have to test for is a short. I presume this would involve starting at the battery, and tracing the wiring until I stop getting voltage. The problem is, I don't know how I should go about doing that. Does it involve cutting shielding off and exposing copper to get a multimeter lead in there? Or is there a better/easier smarter way? Also, am I right in thinking I would have to hook up the battery to get a reading in the first place?

Bottom line is I screwed this up, I want to fix it, and I'm willing to try and accept advice. I just may require a little (okay, okay, a lot) of hand-holding. Thanks for reading my sordid tale of trial, tribulation, joy, and suffering.

Well, chances are there are some fried electronics, so you will have to do some tedious work to figure out what got messed up.

1) Check AS MUCH wiring as possible for signs of damage, overheating, melted insulation, etc etc. Repair or replace them.

2) Check all fuses to make sure they are not blown. This includes fuses by the driver kick panel and in the engine bay.

3) Pull the key out of the ignition. Remove ALL fuses and and connect your battery properly. Insert one fuse at a time, put the key into the ON position, check if fuse blown. Pull key out, insert fuse, rinse and repeat. Start with the high current fuses then work your way down to the low current fuses.

4) For the fuses that are blowing up, you will need to trace the electronics connected to those fuses to see what's causing the short.

Hopes this helps.

Post by **ShaunakaRichard** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:21 pm

To have all those sparks you probably attached the positive wire to the ground side of the starter. Or reversed the terminals at the battery. Its going to be a very long process to get the car going again. Chances are you fried a lot of things, potentially even the ECU. If your not really sure you know what your doing I'd look around for help. Chances are you won't be able to do it on your own, or your going to learn a lot by the end of it. Good luck.