S14 All Motor?

Post by **ninjanick** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:17 pm

Thinking about getting an S14, however wanted to go NA. Prefer a more linear/predictable acceleration. I've searched around and most people agree that 190RWHP is about MAX you can get with the KA. How does it drive? I've driven a stock KA and it feels really anemic! :oface Does I/E/H and Cams really wake this motor up? Forgive me for saying this in a Nissan forum, but I was thinking about getting an ITR, but the cost and insurance alone will prohibit this kind of purchase. :help

Post by **C-Kwik** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:17 pm

The cost of building a 190 RWHP KA would probably be more then you'll spend on an ITR. I've seen bolts ons including cams pull out about 154 RWHP. A nice improvement over the baseline of 127 RWHP. 190 RWHP can certainly be done, but you will be sacrificing a lot of low-end drivability to do it. And it will hardly be linear. In order to pull off building a high HP NA KA, you have to increase it's top end breathing. Cams will be a significant factor, but with wild cams, don't expect a steady idle. You might even have to bump up the idle speed.

I'd say either get the ITR or figure out a different way to make the power you are looking for. A turbo will get you there for much less.

Post by **:: orion ::** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:17 pm

Without opening the motor, the most you will see is 165rwhp.

Later - Brian

Post by **ninjanick** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:17 pm

The main reason I don't want to go SR is because of SMOG. Plus I'm coming from DSMs and turbo is nice, but the 1G just didn't handle well. I'd like to have moderate power and have it be able to have lots of corner speed. RWD would be a plus, but FWD would be tolerable in a good chassis and engine setup. Just seems like the KA really wasn't designed for this purpose?

Post by **AelSic** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:17 pm

Think NOS or KA-T(sorry Guys) for what your expecting

Post by **U12 2NR** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:17 pm

it's possible for someone who really knows how to do things right. Cam, ported/polished head, header, exhaust, ignition, pulleys, ecu, make your own intake manifold, intake. then you have to get rid of things you don't need like your ac compressor and power steering. SAFC to tune your mixture. Dyno runs to properly tune everything, like your timing, mixture, test pipe or not to test pipe..etc. if you really want to get into it then you can even go with higher compression pistons.

Post by **ninjanick** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:17 pm

U12 2NR,So how does your car drive? I see you have pretty much most of the mods you were talking about. I know it's probably hard to explain, but I basically wanted to know how responsive the engine feels. Any suspension mods?

Post by **TBreu007** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:17 pm

It takes a lot of cash to get the KA to 190+ RWHP, but it is possible if you have the cash. It is not possible without opening up the motor. Having owned both cars, I can honestly say the ITR will be faster if you just have I/H/E/ECU, etc. on the 240. I personally hate FWD though and think the 240 is much more fun.

Post by **ranisron** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:17 pm

altimas.net member here,

in order to build a fast KA motor, you have to touch the internal part of the motor....

do high compression forged pistons, rods, rebalance the crankshaft... as for the head work, vavle angle job, porting and polishing, and of course CAMS... even though we, the altimas share the same motor with the 240sx, you guys have more after market parts than the altimas.... JWT cams (N/A application) will be a good choice, but they are SLOW as fug in turnaround time....

as for intake manifold.... port match it, and extrude hone it to increase the airflow....

sorry... didnt know too much about 240sx... I guess there's more power loss in RWD than FWD?

Post by **ninjanick** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:17 pm

Well the ITR is nice, however the insurance is insane!!

Website · Post by **240dreamer** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:17 pm

it'd be cheaper to build the single cam but you wouldn't have an S14 now would you? So, if you really want that 190 ranison is right. You gotta move internal and branch off that. I'm thinking around $4 grand plus going all N/A. Just a ballpark guess though.

Post by **ninjanick** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:17 pm

Yeah it's not lookin too good for the 240 ... I just want something I have fun with .. something that winds out! It just feels better to wind out the engine .. don't know why?

Post by **JasonRox** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:17 pm

I'm new here so I got a questions that kind of involves this topic.

If I decide to get a Nissan 240SX, it will probably be the DE Motor, with RWD.

190HP is pretty nice, IMO, but I'm looking for a car that can push above 200HP.

I prefer all motor, and I'm wondering what are the popular swaps for the 240SX? What will a turbo cost? $2-3k?

If 190HP can do good times, then that's even better. What will I pull with 190HP? High 13's, low 14's, and don't forget the weight reduction.

I currently own a 1996 Dodge Neon, but it is my daily driver. I know it's possible to get the Neon about the 200HP mark, and it's only a 2.0 SOHC 16 Valve engine.

I'm looking for a project car, and just wondering if the 240SX is any good.

Thanks.

Post by **ninjanick** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:17 pm

Well the 240 is a great project car ... especially an older S13. Popular swaps ar SRs and RBs. The KA can be turbo'd with good results as well. If you want to go all motor ... looks like 190RWHP is pushing it without extensive modifications to the internals. If you want above 200RWHP then turbo is most likely it or engine swap.

Post by **:: orion ::** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:17 pm

JasonRox -

You talkin' RWHP or crank HP...? - Gotta clarify.

With all the bolt-ons, 160rwhp is pretty easy, and we've basically established that 165-170rwhp is about the MAX without SERIOUS work.

As far as drag #s...it depends on the chassis. A stripped S13 may be 2500lbs w/o driver, and with 160rwhp and good driving you could run mid-to-high 14s at 93-94mph.

I had 160rwhp in my S14 (which is full weight, 2860lbs w/o driver) and ran a best of 15.2 @ 92mph. Car was faster, but I was never into drag. Fastest I've seen from an S14 with similar power is 14.7 @ 93(?)mph - by Frankie in NC, with his '97 base model...

Turbo is anywhere from $1500-5000, depending on goals. With a T3/T4 (at ~6psi, non-intercooled = 225rwhp) I ran 14.2 @ 101mph. With an intercooler and 8psi I ran 13.6 @ 104mph...

Later - Brian

Post by **JasonRox** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:17 pm

I was talking at the wheels.

When you mean "serious", does that mean beyond bolt-ons, or beyond internals that I don't know about.

Getting new Pistons, Rods, Cams, and Valves. Would that be considered "serious"?

I'm talking from bolt-ons to internals.

If you can't get 170RWHP with internals done, that is pretty damn sad.

Post by **C-Kwik** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:17 pm

Realistically, 170 HP is doable. Even 190. But don't expect it be very comfortable driving around in traffic. More radical cams tend to cause a loss of low-end torque and can make idle a mess. Keep in mind, the way Honda makes high HP is to provide good breating at high RPM's. The VTEC helps to keep the car drivable, since it runs a milder cam at lower loads and RPM. If you were to run the high lift cam on a VTEC motor at idle, you would see some poor idling and a severe loss of low-end torque. I'd speculate the S2000 would not idle at all if VTEC were on at a normal idle speed.

But by the time you build your 190 HP NA KA, you will have spent quite a bit more than I have for my turbo. Not to make this a turbo vs NA debate, but I'm just being realistic here. And even if you made the 190 NA, you likely wouldn't pass smog in Cali. Wilder cams tend to cause higher emissions due to a bigger overlap.

Post by **JasonRox** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:17 pm

The thing is that I don't know where to pick up a decent turbo, and I know almost nothing about it. I would rather have a supercharger because I have a better understanding about it, but for some reason I wouldn't get a supercharger. Weird.

How much power can you expect with Turbocharger shooting 7 PSI? What kind of compression should I use? Would 9:1 be alright?

Post by **C-Kwik** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 1:17 pm

There are several kits out there for the KA24DE. NSport, XS Engineering and F-Max(Turbonetics) all make a kit. All are designed to work at around 7psi as a bolt on. With some fuel upgrades, all can see more boost. And this is on stock internals. I run a XS kit now at 6.5 PSI.

Most of these kits are seeing about 230 or so HP at the wheels at about 7 psi.

Turbos aren't a whole lot different in concept than a supercharger. Both are designed to push more air into the motor. The supercharger is belt driven. A turbo is driven by exhaust pressure and heat.

I'd recommend reading the FAQ's on the turbo section, perhaps checking out the How Stuff Works site, and even reading books about turbos if you are interested. Maximum Boost by Corky Bell is a simple to understand book that explains just about all you will need to know about turbocharging.

I'm not trying to push anyone towards Turbo here. I know this is the NA forum. Just making sure all options are explored.

S14 All Motor?

S14 All Motor?

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