does anyone know where i can find one?
looks like this http://jacquemond.com/za12.jpg
S13 Wide Bodykit
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MAXIMUS Nismo
- Posts: 1535
- Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 7:23 am
- Car: 95 240sx SE
- Contact:
yeah, you can get S13 widbody fenders from:http://www.jspec.com
they just got them in! I was thinking about getting them for the rea of my hatchback, so I can run a 9" wide or 10" wide rim and some fatty tires...but then I was like "uhhh...not so much." because that woudl F-UCK UP my handling hardcore. can you say "understeer"?
they just got them in! I was thinking about getting them for the rea of my hatchback, so I can run a 9" wide or 10" wide rim and some fatty tires...but then I was like "uhhh...not so much." because that woudl F-UCK UP my handling hardcore. can you say "understeer"?
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not_a_porsche
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 6:33 pm
W1thStyle wrote:but hey! understeer can be a good thing if u wanna go drifting =)
Other way around.
Oversteer is what you want.
Seeing that drifting is about setting up your car to go around a track as slowly as possible following the absolute worst line through every corner, a 10" wide tire and 50lbs. of bondo and plastic hanging on the rear end sounds about right.
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Daunttless
- Posts: 3890
- Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 7:20 am
Heh, good drifters follow the best possible line around the corner and use drifting to exceed the limits of their tires capacity for grip. : )
Its bad drifters that follow the worst line. A lot of actual racers drift for cornering, its just extremely hard on their tires and they can't afford to do it the whole race. Some forms of drifting ( the nonshow type ) are actually quite fast and when used in conjunction with grip can cause much faster acceleration into the turn, a higher maintained speed, and a faster acceleration out of the turn. : )
Its bad drifters that follow the worst line. A lot of actual racers drift for cornering, its just extremely hard on their tires and they can't afford to do it the whole race. Some forms of drifting ( the nonshow type ) are actually quite fast and when used in conjunction with grip can cause much faster acceleration into the turn, a higher maintained speed, and a faster acceleration out of the turn. : )
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not_a_porsche
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 6:33 pm
Heh, good drifters follow the best possible line around the corner and use drifting to exceed the limits of their tires capacity for grip. : )
So a sliding/spinning tire generates more grip?
That's interesting, perhaps someone should let the Formula1, NASCAR, and even the NHRA organizations know that they are doing it all wrong.
The line may be correct, but the attitude of the car in relation to that line couldn't be more wrong. The fastest way through a corner is not sideways. *
The best line around a track means zig-zagging 4 times on the straight parts too?
Its bad drifters that follow the worst line. A lot of actual racers drift for cornering, its just extremely hard on their tires and they can't afford to do it the whole race.
They all follow the worst line around the track.
Some forms of drifting ( the nonshow type ) are actually quite fast and when used in conjunction with grip
There already is a name for that, throttle induced oversteer.
can cause much faster acceleration into the turn
Accelerating into the turn, that's novel. And wrong.
Don't use 'Drifting the sport similar to water ballet for cars' as a generic term for anytime a car slides. Some of them are legitmate, but do not associate it with that choreographed dancing crap.
*Unless you are racing on dirt.
So a sliding/spinning tire generates more grip?
That's interesting, perhaps someone should let the Formula1, NASCAR, and even the NHRA organizations know that they are doing it all wrong.
The line may be correct, but the attitude of the car in relation to that line couldn't be more wrong. The fastest way through a corner is not sideways. *
The best line around a track means zig-zagging 4 times on the straight parts too?
Its bad drifters that follow the worst line. A lot of actual racers drift for cornering, its just extremely hard on their tires and they can't afford to do it the whole race.
They all follow the worst line around the track.
Some forms of drifting ( the nonshow type ) are actually quite fast and when used in conjunction with grip
There already is a name for that, throttle induced oversteer.
can cause much faster acceleration into the turn
Accelerating into the turn, that's novel. And wrong.
Don't use 'Drifting the sport similar to water ballet for cars' as a generic term for anytime a car slides. Some of them are legitmate, but do not associate it with that choreographed dancing crap.
*Unless you are racing on dirt.
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Daunttless
- Posts: 3890
- Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 7:20 am
Heh, actually I don't watch much Formula 1 or Nascar, so that would be probably be where our differences come in, I watch a lot of rally's and road racing. : ) I suppose I should have defined that better. Also, whats a drift except a throttle induced oversteer. : ) Quite a number of drifts are throttle induced. =P
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lateralmotion
- Posts: 291
- Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 8:49 pm
- Car: guitar, skateboarding, driving
i wonder if anyone on this board have a wide body kit? the reason why i wanna get this kit is becuz no one has it. i mean everyone and their mama has a souped up car with buddy club kit , street figher kit etc.... but no one has THIS KIT! does any body have this kit on and does it slow u down a lot?
Hope u have a garage to park your new 4-6 thousand (kit+paintjob) dolla investment. I would SUGGEST spending it on your motor and suspension. But then again my taste is being a silent sleeper.
Body kits=unwanted attention, require more maintence (cracks, chips, etc), worst of all the thought of a 6 thousand dollas investment when drifting is unbearable.
Body kits=unwanted attention, require more maintence (cracks, chips, etc), worst of all the thought of a 6 thousand dollas investment when drifting is unbearable.
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not_a_porsche
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 6:33 pm
Originally posted by lateralmotion No, if you get a wide-body kit and get some fatty wheels to go with it your handling will be a lot better, because tires=grip, thus more tire=more grip, so it will have a positive effect on the car's handling.
That isn't true. Basically, given a constant vehicle weight the size of the contact patch will remain the same regardless of tire width.
I am not sure how the wheels mount with a widebody kit, but if it uses spacers that can be bad....Read this
The only positive effect I can see from a widebody kit is increased roll-over resitance.
That isn't true. Basically, given a constant vehicle weight the size of the contact patch will remain the same regardless of tire width.
I am not sure how the wheels mount with a widebody kit, but if it uses spacers that can be bad....Read this
The only positive effect I can see from a widebody kit is increased roll-over resitance.
"No, if you get a wide-body kit and get some fatty wheels to go with it your handling will be a lot better, because tires=grip, thus more tire=more grip, so it will have a positive effect on the car's handling"
uh, this is only if the suspension can keep all of that fat tire in contact with the ground, and I was refering to the rear tires, put on a 40mm(just a number) wider rear tire, and thusly(idealy) more grippy, it will upset your handling ballance in favor of understeer.
-chet
uh, this is only if the suspension can keep all of that fat tire in contact with the ground, and I was refering to the rear tires, put on a 40mm(just a number) wider rear tire, and thusly(idealy) more grippy, it will upset your handling ballance in favor of understeer.
-chet
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not_a_porsche
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 6:33 pm
Lost_To_A_K-Car wrote:Originally posted by not_a_porsche "]That isn't true. Basically, given a constant vehicle weight the size of the contact patch will remain the same regardless of tire width.Please elaborate.
Ok, but this is from memory. The old thread is gone from my email where there was a discussion about this. In a nutshell, ff you put a wider rim/tire combo on a car without changing the O.D., laterally the contact patch will increase in width but will become shorter in longitude. This:------------| || || |------------ Becomes this:---------------| || |---------------
You can change the shape, but not the area because it's determined by weight and air pressure.
------------------------
This is slightly different than what I said, but describes why a wider tire will not net you more grip:
F=u*rwhere F=friction, u=coefficient of friction (a constant particular to the materials involved) and r=weight. The coefficients of friction of dry road surfaces generally range from 0.6 to 0.8. You can't get more grip unless you:A. increase the coefficient of frictionB. increase the weight. Note: Increasing the width of the contact patch will not alter A.
Two-Forty wrote:Hope u have a garage to park your new 4-6 thousand (kit+paintjob) dolla investment. I would SUGGEST spending it on your motor and suspension. But then again my taste is being a silent sleeper.
Body kits=unwanted attention, require more maintence (cracks, chips, etc), worst of all the thought of a 6 thousand dollas investment when drifting is unbearable.
well i didnt say i m not gonna spend $ on my motor. you r right about the kit, it catchs too much attendsion. but den when i lay my eyes on those kit i know i m in love. but spending 6g on just the kit? that changed my mind. if its like 2g then i mma do it =) <---- cheap bastard!
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not_a_porsche
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 6:33 pm
Geez, I try and give a simple explanation to a simple statement.....
Unfortunately, hydraulics alone do not explain the behavior of a tire. You're completely ignoring tire construction and materials. Even two of >the same-sized tires can have different contact patch areas depending on the configuration of their crown radius.
Yes, I was omitting variables such as tire construction for the sake of keeping the statement simplified.
I think it is shortsighted to assume that a wider tire will _always_ give you a larger contact patch. There are many variables involved and until someone comes up with a magic formula that I can plug a bunch of numbers into I wouldn't make the blanket assumption that wider is better.
As you noted, on a narrow tire you'll have a roundish contact patch, and on a wider tire, the contact patch will be broader and more >rectangular. If you apply the deflection to both of these, you'll find that you lose a much larger portion of your contact area in the former >case than in the latter - just when you need it the most.
Agreed, but the actual area involved does not matter. Remember the other 6th grade experiment where we dragged a book across a table with a spring scale? If we use a brick instead and lay it on it's face and take a measurement and then lay it on it's side (which has a smaller area) the force required to drag it across the table will be the same in both cases.
It sounds to me like the group you saw discuss this spends too much time reading and not enough driving.
Yup. You know them.
Now, as to your second point...
F=u*r
...if your tires are made of glass, and you're driving on a glass road.
I do not understand what you mean by this. Do you not think that formula applies to tires and asphalt? The coefficient of friction between the two is real and measurable.
...In these situations, a wider tire will permit more of the pressure to be spread off of the spots where you can't use it (such as on the raccoon) and onto the spots where you can use it (tread).
I don't see area or pressure in the friction equation. Please explain how pressure variations can effect friction.
Unfortunately, hydraulics alone do not explain the behavior of a tire. You're completely ignoring tire construction and materials. Even two of >the same-sized tires can have different contact patch areas depending on the configuration of their crown radius.
Yes, I was omitting variables such as tire construction for the sake of keeping the statement simplified.
I think it is shortsighted to assume that a wider tire will _always_ give you a larger contact patch. There are many variables involved and until someone comes up with a magic formula that I can plug a bunch of numbers into I wouldn't make the blanket assumption that wider is better.
As you noted, on a narrow tire you'll have a roundish contact patch, and on a wider tire, the contact patch will be broader and more >rectangular. If you apply the deflection to both of these, you'll find that you lose a much larger portion of your contact area in the former >case than in the latter - just when you need it the most.
Agreed, but the actual area involved does not matter. Remember the other 6th grade experiment where we dragged a book across a table with a spring scale? If we use a brick instead and lay it on it's face and take a measurement and then lay it on it's side (which has a smaller area) the force required to drag it across the table will be the same in both cases.
It sounds to me like the group you saw discuss this spends too much time reading and not enough driving.
Yup. You know them.
Now, as to your second point...
F=u*r
...if your tires are made of glass, and you're driving on a glass road.
I do not understand what you mean by this. Do you not think that formula applies to tires and asphalt? The coefficient of friction between the two is real and measurable.
...In these situations, a wider tire will permit more of the pressure to be spread off of the spots where you can't use it (such as on the raccoon) and onto the spots where you can use it (tread).
I don't see area or pressure in the friction equation. Please explain how pressure variations can effect friction.
"You're applying knowledge, which is good. You'll applying it incorrectly though, which is bad."
I do this a lot
yeah, it is complicated, but I think going from a 205-55-15 to my 225-45-17 tire, even if the contact patch remins the same)which it changes chape apparently) the V to Y speed rating and more stable contruction(PZero is way stiff..) would grant me much more grip overall, braking or otherwise..
-chet
I do this a lot
yeah, it is complicated, but I think going from a 205-55-15 to my 225-45-17 tire, even if the contact patch remins the same)which it changes chape apparently) the V to Y speed rating and more stable contruction(PZero is way stiff..) would grant me much more grip overall, braking or otherwise..
-chet