S13 rb vs sr

[Lawrence1994]

I know this topic has been covered a bunch of times, but when I search it everything I find is like 10 years old. With that being said I feel like the prices of things has changed in that's time not to mention tuning. I'm looking to buy a swap this summer and hopefully install it over winter. My questions are which is the better for the money? Little bit of info
Car will not be daily driven be mainly a track car and street from time to time
I will be swapping myself
Ac will not be needed would be nice but not needed
Do have 2 local guy with rb swapped s13's so there's some knowledge on those around here but they have bigger power goals then me
Looking for roughly 400whp
which would be the best for the money not what is cheapest what's the best bang for your money to get the kinda hp I'm looking for

[2_Liter_Turbo]

It really depends on what you plan on doing with the car. Road racing or keeping cost of maintenance down while having an enjoyable engine, I prefer the SR. If cost of up-keep and parts isn't a concern and you are more into drifting or drag racing, then the RB is a better choice. I have both engines, and the SR will be cheaper to keep going by quite a bit. The RB has a much better TQ band though, which is nice for certain scenarios like drifting or drag racing. A solid enjoyable setup on an SR without cracking open the engine is a bottom mount GTX2867R turbo with some 256 cams and a good tune. You'll net around 350-ish to the wheels and awesome boost response. You can approach 400whp on this setup, but it really depends on where you live and who tunes your engine.

Also, don't waste your money on an RB20, if you go RB, go to the RB25. It's a much better engine (and transmission by A LOT), and the cost isn't that much more. It also has WAAAY more potential.

Good luck!

[Hijacker]

The only RB20 I ever drove felt anemic and the amount of work to get it in just felt wasted versus the drop in install of an SR. So I would definitely recommend going to a larger displacement RB if you go that route.

[centralcoaster33]

What track(s) do you intend to drive on? What type of events?

[Lawrence1994]

I'll start by saying I really appreciate you guys not telling me to "do my research" or "use the search bar". I live in Oklahoma the car will be mainly a drift car. If I was to go rb it would be a 25. Sr's seem to be a lot more common so I see keeping the cost down with a sr more parts out there etc. I've seen so many horror stories about sr's knocking eating cyl 3 or 4 can't recall exactly which. IS there reasons behind this? Better to go with a red top vs black top? Honestly I'd be content with 350whp and it be RELIABLE lol

[Lawrence1994]

I'm more concerned with the drivability and how fun the car is vs how much power it makes. I'm currently a Miata owner LOL I know right? lol makes like next to no power and it's a blast but I'm looking for something a little more if that makes any sense to you guys

[2_Liter_Turbo]

I've heard practically every "horror story" over the years about how SR's blow this or throw that, from all sorts of people. And from my experience, there are a few rules you have to follow with SR's to keep them uber reliable (I've put hundreds of thousands of hard miles on my SR's btw).

1. Use the correct oil. This is a huge thing that is missed by 90% of SR owners, and is why these owners experience tore up valvetrains. SR's were designed in a time period of high zinc and other additives in commercial off the shelf oils. Well, the EPA and other governing bodies changed this since then (for the environment according to them... lol), so modern off the shelf oils don't have the film strength they used to (Mobil 1 is a prime example of this), so they can meet OEM/EPA standards. Because of this, you have to buy oils that are labeled for "race use" such as Valvoline VR-1, Royal Purple XRP, Amsoil, Torco SR-1, and some diesel truck specific oils to name some examples. The reason why SR's need high film strength is in the rocker arm design. You have a very small contact surface that is smooth hard metal (no bearings) contacting the the valves and cams. When you use a lower film strength oil, the great pressures educed by this system makes metal to metal contact and you get a higher rate of wear. A small side note, SR's are old engines, and thus, can have a reasonable amount of blow by (and their PCV system sucks on earlier models), so make sure to change the oil every 3500 miles/3 months (max) for normal street driving. More often if you race it.

2. Don't sit on the rev limiter! This is a big problem with the drifting crowd. SR's can rev high (even higher with the right mods, I can go to 9k on mine), but what they don't like is sitting on the rev limiter. This is guaranteed to throw a rocker arm. I've been racing mine for years and have NEVER thrown one, but I don't sit on the limiter. I either control my throttle to sit just below redline (if I need to be there for whatever reason), or I shift into the next gear. You can drift without riding the limiter. In my opinion, sitting on the limiter is a lazy way of controlling throttle input, and it's very hard on engines, but especially SR's.

3. Don't use rocker arms stoppers. These "safety devices" are trash. Never install them. They are advertised as keeping your rocker arm in place if you over rev. Well, the problem is, is that when the rocker arm comes off the shim (see #2 for reasons why it would), it will now be held in place forcefully instead of falling off to the side like Nissan intended. This will cause some serious head damage. A rocker arm falling off to the side will suck, but it won't bend valves and totally screw your day up, it'll just cause your engine to run like crap. You can throw the arm back in and go on your way (most of the time).

4. Keep oil level perfect/increase sump capacity. SR's have a crappy factory lower oil pan at just 3.5 qts of capacity. The first thing anyone does when swapping in an SR needs to be a large capacity/baffled oil pan. Don't get crappy fitting knock-off pans, get higher quality stuff like Greddy, Tomei, etc. The copied "cheap" parts may look close, and be made in the same country (Taiwan) as some of the name brand stuff, but they fit like crap and use poorer quality materials and/or craftsmanship. Also due to the crap oil pan design, you need to keep the oil pan full at all times. Too much lateral forces in motorsports (such as drifting and road racing) will cause oil starvation because the pickup tube will get air. This is very bad! Don't overfill though, because if you do, the crank will aerate the oil and cause a whole mess of problems.

5. Don't use cheap parts! As will everything (well almost) in life, you get what you pay for. I'm not saying you have to go out and buy the most expensive version of everything, but do your homework and ask if you can't find the info on the parts you are looking at. There are a TON of crap parts out there for the SR. I'm not going to go on blasting certain companies, but I've seen a ton of people's engines crap out on them because they go the cheap route with parts (even engine internals!). Sure they can make power, even for awhile, but you'll either not be able to utilize the full potential of the mod you just did, or the part will just outright fail and cost you a lot more in the long run. SR's are not a small block chevy, they are a high strung 4 banger that require a level of precision and craftsmanship in their builds to be reliable and run strong. Yes, it will take longer for you to get where you want by buying quality stuff, but once you are there, you will stay there, and not have to keep rebuilding your engine because it fails after every season.

There are more, but my wife is bugging me to do some stuff around the house, ha ha. I've had my same SR since 2005, and have abused the crap out of it, but I am on top of maintenance and I try to do things right the first time (I didn't always, and I paid the price then). It has lasted me since then and is still going strong. Good luck!

[Lawrence1994]

This is a awesome page! I've learned a lot since this was posted last night! lol I'm really leaning towards the sr after reading a few things. Simply because both rb swapped cars in town are CONSTANTLY having to order stuff and wait for normal parts that you've gotta replace on a engine. Seems like they are cheaper I would like to keep the cost down since unfortunately I'm not rich by any means. So on with my next question the good ole red top vs black top argument? Looking for 350-400whp if I was in it a little less money and made a little less power I can settle with that.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

Either redtop or blacktop work. Blacktops are newer, so things are most likely to be in better shape. Redtops are cheaper. If you go with an S14 SR you get a few nice upgrades on the stock motor like a better valve cover (In terms of the PCV capabilities), better flowing head, larger turbo, etc. Both engines will handle about the same power in stock form.

[float_6969]

I'm a CA18 guy, so I can't help in this area much, but I can say that I find it interesting that 10 years ago, SR's were indestructible and CA's were the ones that would spin bearing. The issue is age. I think people forget that they're talking about junkyard motors. Some may have been setting in the yard for a LONG time. And you never really know how many miles they have on them. Regardless of the engine, if you're going to beat on it, keep the oiling good and don't set on the rev limiter.