I've done some research and I couldn't find this question asked anywhere. Will s13 flcas work on an s14? I understand that there's no good reason to do this and that's why I couldn't find anyone who's done this. The reason I'm considering this is that I have an s13 that is a long way from done (or even running for that matter) that came with the old style psm modded knuckles and flcas (already has 5 lug swap with different flcas installed anyway, the modded units were in the trunk). My s14 could go to the track tomorrow and I want that angle (I'm willing to trade 5 lug for the mod).
So my plan is to rob the tein coilovers from my s13, because they're better than the ones on my s14 and will make it so I don't have to drill the coil mounting holes on the knuckles. The flca and knuckles were a set, so no need to get a different ball joint. The modded flcas have tein tc rods which I will try to adjust out, but I'm pretty sure I'll need to use the stock s14 tc rods (that part sucks, but I can still use them on the s13 eventually). I plan to run two pass side s13 tie rods for the extra thread so I can safely run spacers.
My research indicates that this will suck my wheels in 7mm or about a 1/4 inch on each side (not worried about that really as I'm pretty sure I can more than compensate the positive change in camber with my adjustable pillow ball mounts and if needed I'll run spacers).
Can anyone think of a reason this won't work? Are there any known clearance issues? Any advice would be much appreciated.
Cool side note the s13 I'm taking the parts from is Hellagay from Daft.
S13 flcas into s14
-
compactfean
- Posts: 2602
- Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:28 am
- Car: 89 240sx s13 sr gt3071r 23psi
B14 sentra ser sr20de-t 7psi
daily - Location: reno nv
Re: S13 flcas into s14
Considering us s13 guys use the flca and spindle from an s14 to do 5 lug conversions and is direct bolt on for us, id say the opposite, you'll be just fine.
Re: S13 flcas into s14
Thanks Compactfean. I'll be swapping everything over in the next few weeks and posting my results.
Re: S13 flcas into s14
One more thing... I want to use my s13 rotors with my s14se non-abs calipers. From what I've read my s13 rotors are the same diameter as the s14 ones, but are thinner. Do the s13 pads work with s14 se calipers? If not, which pads should I run? It seems like a thicker pad would be needed.
I also have the option of running the s13 calipers or re-drilling the s14 rotors. Any advice would be much appreciated.
I also have the option of running the s13 calipers or re-drilling the s14 rotors. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Re: S13 flcas into s14
I just found the fsms posted by AZHitman. The 96 fsm and the 89 fsm show the same diameter and thickness for the rotors. The 96 didn't have different specs for se, so I'm guessing they're the same for se.
The 89 fsm didn't have pad dimensions, but the 91-94 did and they match exactly the 96. 91-94 and 96 fsms also showed the same caliper piston bore, so either pad should work.
From what I can tell, there's no reason to not use the s13 rotors and s14 calipers. Someone please chime in if I'm missin something. Thanks.
The 89 fsm didn't have pad dimensions, but the 91-94 did and they match exactly the 96. 91-94 and 96 fsms also showed the same caliper piston bore, so either pad should work.
From what I can tell, there's no reason to not use the s13 rotors and s14 calipers. Someone please chime in if I'm missin something. Thanks.
Re: S13 flcas into s14
This is on hold for a while. I just put all available project car funds into the JGS urethane transmission mount, an upgraded pressure plate and clutch disc (clutch was slipping bad) and diy flexane motor mounts.
Even if I have tie rods and tension rods that will work I will still need to buy the aftermarket five lug hubs for the s13 spindle (rather than buy two dedicated four lug wheels for the front, since I have plenty of five lug wheels). The hubs are only a little more than adapters and all the four to five lug adapters I found had more spacing than I want to run. So, at this point I'm planning on using my s14 rotors.
Anybody have any advice on the aftermarket 5 lug hubs for the s13?
Even if I have tie rods and tension rods that will work I will still need to buy the aftermarket five lug hubs for the s13 spindle (rather than buy two dedicated four lug wheels for the front, since I have plenty of five lug wheels). The hubs are only a little more than adapters and all the four to five lug adapters I found had more spacing than I want to run. So, at this point I'm planning on using my s14 rotors.
Anybody have any advice on the aftermarket 5 lug hubs for the s13?
Last edited by jonny96 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: S13 flcas into s14
How do I request to get this moved into a build thread?
So, I finished the stage 1 clutch, motor mount and transmission mount job and finally got enough money to get everything I needed to put the super angle kit from my s13 on my s14.
I swapped over the tien coil overs and installed the SAK modded knuckles with the reinforced lower controls arms that came with (not on) my S13.
I originally thought that the previous owner had removed the SAK knuckles and arms to swap S14 arms and knuckles on, because the ones on the car were five lug. When I pulled the Tien coil overs out I noticed that the bolts holding them to the knuckles were smaller than on my S14 and there were no inserts in the knuckles. I pulled the hubs off and sure enough they’re aftermaket S13 5 lug hubs with good extended studs all the way around. I swapped those hubs onto the SAK modded knuckles, then installed the rotors and caliper brackets.
I tried to put the Jonny Fraz power bar from my S13 on my S14, but I found out that the TC rod brackets are not interchangeable between s13s and s14s.
Now I’m waiting for my PBM order to get here with my Ikeya inner tie rods, steering rack eccentric bushing and steering rack spacers. I’ve also ordered moog outers and new sway bar end links with urethane bushings (on the end links and sway bar to frame) for the front sway bar.
I still need to see if my adjustable TC rods will extend enough to mount to an S14, if not I’m pretty sure the stock ones will work for now.
So, I finished the stage 1 clutch, motor mount and transmission mount job and finally got enough money to get everything I needed to put the super angle kit from my s13 on my s14.
I swapped over the tien coil overs and installed the SAK modded knuckles with the reinforced lower controls arms that came with (not on) my S13.
I originally thought that the previous owner had removed the SAK knuckles and arms to swap S14 arms and knuckles on, because the ones on the car were five lug. When I pulled the Tien coil overs out I noticed that the bolts holding them to the knuckles were smaller than on my S14 and there were no inserts in the knuckles. I pulled the hubs off and sure enough they’re aftermaket S13 5 lug hubs with good extended studs all the way around. I swapped those hubs onto the SAK modded knuckles, then installed the rotors and caliper brackets.
I tried to put the Jonny Fraz power bar from my S13 on my S14, but I found out that the TC rod brackets are not interchangeable between s13s and s14s.
Now I’m waiting for my PBM order to get here with my Ikeya inner tie rods, steering rack eccentric bushing and steering rack spacers. I’ve also ordered moog outers and new sway bar end links with urethane bushings (on the end links and sway bar to frame) for the front sway bar.
I still need to see if my adjustable TC rods will extend enough to mount to an S14, if not I’m pretty sure the stock ones will work for now.
Last edited by jonny96 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: S13 flcas into s14
I've started a build thread
post6361704.html#p6361704
I'm almost done with the swap, just waiting on some wheel spacers and steering rack boots.
After I get it aligned and get the clutch broken in I plan to take it to the track after which I'll post my results here, too.
post6361704.html#p6361704
I'm almost done with the swap, just waiting on some wheel spacers and steering rack boots.
After I get it aligned and get the clutch broken in I plan to take it to the track after which I'll post my results here, too.
-
Hijacker
- Posts: 14373
- Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:57 am
- Car: '92 240sx Convertible
'94 F-150 - Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Re: S13 flcas into s14
Did you put the S13 FLCA into your S14? If you did, I would recommend swapping it for an S14. The ball joint has a different taper between the two. The reason S13 guys have to swap the LCA when they do 5 lug swaps is because of that fact. Otherwise, we would just slap the S14 knuckle on and go.
Re: S13 flcas into s14
Hijacker wrote:Did you put the S13 FLCA into your S14? If you did, I would recommend swapping it for an S14. The ball joint has a different taper between the two. The reason S13 guys have to swap the LCA when they do 5 lug swaps is because of that fact. Otherwise, we would just slap the S14 knuckle on and go.
Thanks for the info. This quote is from the OP.
"The flca and knuckles were a set, so no need to get a different ball joint."
I may end up putting s13 ball joints into my s14 arms to restore the track width, but I'm going to see how much camber I can get and whether or not my clearance issues are too great to overcome wth the s13 arms first.
-
Hijacker
- Posts: 14373
- Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:57 am
- Car: '92 240sx Convertible
'94 F-150 - Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Re: S13 flcas into s14
Sorry. Missed that part where you mentioned you were putting the S13 knuckles on with the S13 coilovers.
Re: S13 flcas into s14
I just updated my build thread (there's a link in one of the above posts if you're interested) and wanted to update this thread as well. I did a very rudimentary alignment myself and can drive the car around town without too much of an issue.
I lifted the front of the car up a bit higher than it was before I did the above mentioned suspension mods. I did this to get closer to a stock roll center. This created an issue with the tie rods, though.
The old PSM knuckles that I installed have the tie rod mount lower than stock to "correct" the angle of the tie rod when very low. It would seem to me that you would always want the flca and tie rod to be parallel to eliminate bump steer. Maybe there's an issue with the functionality of the tie rod when it is at that extreme angle on a lowered car that dropping the mounting point alleviates. I'm not sure (I haven't run the car with these mods low enough to find out), but obviously it's better to correct the roll center and leave the height of the tie rod mounting point close to stock with respect to the ball mounting point so the tie rod and flca stay parallel to each other. This is what I intend to do eventually (with PSMs new super angle roll center corrected forged knuckles), but for now it's angle over no bump steer.
The car actually handles pretty well (I really haven't driven it a whole lot, though). I would say better than before these mods. I attribute that to the fact that my roll center is closer to stock, the sway bar bushes are new and urethane and that I have Tien coil overs instead of the cheap and broken coil overs that were on the care previously (too bad S13 rear coil overs don't fit S14s). The car does have really bad bump steer, though. As stated above the original PSM knuckles were designed for cars that are lower than mine. When the flcas are at that roll center fubaring angle dropping the tie rods down puts them almost parallel to the ground. This means that when you go over a bump the flca and tie rod are both past the apex of their arcs and are moving in the same direction (flca and tie rod mounting points on the knuckles are both moving toward the inside of the car). The flca being further along in its arc moves in further for every unit of suspension travel, so you will still have some bump steer no matter what with these knuckles, but I would imagine it's not too bad when you're really low.
My issue is that when I raised the car up it puts the tie rod past the apex of its arc so that when the suspension compresses the tie rod mounting point is moving toward the outside of the car. I did not raise the car high enough to bring the flca past the apex of its arc so the flca mounting point moves toward the inside of the car upon suspension compression. This causes the knuckle to turn in when going over a bump creating really bad bump steer. If I hit a bump with both tires simultaneously it's not so bad as both wheels turn in at the same time, but otherwise it's pretty bad.
I am getting some other issues with the car buttoned down. Once I do that I plan to take it to Sonoma Raceway (formerly Infineon) to see what I can do with these knuckles, a serious clutch and solid mounts.
I lifted the front of the car up a bit higher than it was before I did the above mentioned suspension mods. I did this to get closer to a stock roll center. This created an issue with the tie rods, though.
The old PSM knuckles that I installed have the tie rod mount lower than stock to "correct" the angle of the tie rod when very low. It would seem to me that you would always want the flca and tie rod to be parallel to eliminate bump steer. Maybe there's an issue with the functionality of the tie rod when it is at that extreme angle on a lowered car that dropping the mounting point alleviates. I'm not sure (I haven't run the car with these mods low enough to find out), but obviously it's better to correct the roll center and leave the height of the tie rod mounting point close to stock with respect to the ball mounting point so the tie rod and flca stay parallel to each other. This is what I intend to do eventually (with PSMs new super angle roll center corrected forged knuckles), but for now it's angle over no bump steer.
The car actually handles pretty well (I really haven't driven it a whole lot, though). I would say better than before these mods. I attribute that to the fact that my roll center is closer to stock, the sway bar bushes are new and urethane and that I have Tien coil overs instead of the cheap and broken coil overs that were on the care previously (too bad S13 rear coil overs don't fit S14s). The car does have really bad bump steer, though. As stated above the original PSM knuckles were designed for cars that are lower than mine. When the flcas are at that roll center fubaring angle dropping the tie rods down puts them almost parallel to the ground. This means that when you go over a bump the flca and tie rod are both past the apex of their arcs and are moving in the same direction (flca and tie rod mounting points on the knuckles are both moving toward the inside of the car). The flca being further along in its arc moves in further for every unit of suspension travel, so you will still have some bump steer no matter what with these knuckles, but I would imagine it's not too bad when you're really low.
My issue is that when I raised the car up it puts the tie rod past the apex of its arc so that when the suspension compresses the tie rod mounting point is moving toward the outside of the car. I did not raise the car high enough to bring the flca past the apex of its arc so the flca mounting point moves toward the inside of the car upon suspension compression. This causes the knuckle to turn in when going over a bump creating really bad bump steer. If I hit a bump with both tires simultaneously it's not so bad as both wheels turn in at the same time, but otherwise it's pretty bad.
I am getting some other issues with the car buttoned down. Once I do that I plan to take it to Sonoma Raceway (formerly Infineon) to see what I can do with these knuckles, a serious clutch and solid mounts.
Last edited by jonny96 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
Hijacker
- Posts: 14373
- Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:57 am
- Car: '92 240sx Convertible
'94 F-150 - Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Re: S13 flcas into s14
You could swap back to a factory knuckle for the time being if you're super worried about the bump steer issues. But if you can live with the bump steer issues and you don't plan on taking long to get the newer knuckles...
I went the GKTech route for RC correction, although I'm still waiting on them. There's lots of neat little bits on the GKTech knuckles to do things like correct bump steer, alter camber at the knuckle leaving your KPI and scrub alone. I can't wait to get my hands on them.
I went the GKTech route for RC correction, although I'm still waiting on them. There's lots of neat little bits on the GKTech knuckles to do things like correct bump steer, alter camber at the knuckle leaving your KPI and scrub alone. I can't wait to get my hands on them.
Re: S13 flcas into s14
The GK Techs are pretty bad arse, a little more expensive than the PSM forged knucks, but so much more versatile. I want to go PSM knuckles and arms (flca tc rod combo) on my S14 and GK Tech on the S13 with reinforced and extended (between the TC rod mount and ball joint) stock S14 flcas with hiems welded in in place of the bushings. I would also like to throw the COR TC rods at the S13 with their sway bar (I want the COR sway bar for the S14 too). I need to win the lottery, because I really want to go full PSM rear suspension, too. Those rear knucks with the dual caliper mounts and roll center correction are the bees knees. 
Do you have a post where you're going to document the install of the GK Techs?
I don't plan on doing too much driving on the current knuckles, but I do want to test them at the track before switching them out.
Do you have a post where you're going to document the install of the GK Techs?
I don't plan on doing too much driving on the current knuckles, but I do want to test them at the track before switching them out.
Last edited by jonny96 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
Hijacker
- Posts: 14373
- Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:57 am
- Car: '92 240sx Convertible
'94 F-150 - Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Re: S13 flcas into s14
I've got an entire review and testing planned for the GKTech's. I've already mapped out the suspension dimensions, drawn them up in my drafting program, and have different levels of ride height to illustrate the effects that has on roll center. I just need to get them to do my hands on review and install. It's just been a long wait due to delays from manufacturing.
Re: S13 flcas into s14
Took my car to the track on 7/3 and hit the wall on my first run breaking my driver side control arm. There was some cosmetic damage and I'll probably have to pull the bumper support and rad core support. It was pain in the arse getting it off the track.
I just happened to have an extra S13 arm lying around, so I fixed it at the track and got some more runs in. I'm actually really glad it was the control arm and not something else. The car felt really good before I put it in the wall. My initiation and first transition felt good, but as I was coming into the second transition I realized I was way too wide and I tried to straighten out and understeered the front into the wall, instead of slamming the back of the car into the wall.
In the two weeks leading up to taking it to the track I was putting miles on it and adjusting the toe and got it to the point where it felt pretty good. I didn't really have the time for adjustments after changing the arm out and I could tell that it was toed out too far. I got a little bit more drifting in, but I have to fix my lights, fix my radiator fan wiring and get the alignment dialed back in before I take it back to the track.
I'm selling my S13 with the PSM SAK modded knuckles. Which means I'm going to be taking this set up off my S14 and getting newer/better S14 coil overs and some sort of knuckles (and possibly aftermarket arms) for the S14. Hopefully I get it to the track for a few more test runs before swapping out the front suspension.
I just happened to have an extra S13 arm lying around, so I fixed it at the track and got some more runs in. I'm actually really glad it was the control arm and not something else. The car felt really good before I put it in the wall. My initiation and first transition felt good, but as I was coming into the second transition I realized I was way too wide and I tried to straighten out and understeered the front into the wall, instead of slamming the back of the car into the wall.
In the two weeks leading up to taking it to the track I was putting miles on it and adjusting the toe and got it to the point where it felt pretty good. I didn't really have the time for adjustments after changing the arm out and I could tell that it was toed out too far. I got a little bit more drifting in, but I have to fix my lights, fix my radiator fan wiring and get the alignment dialed back in before I take it back to the track.
I'm selling my S13 with the PSM SAK modded knuckles. Which means I'm going to be taking this set up off my S14 and getting newer/better S14 coil overs and some sort of knuckles (and possibly aftermarket arms) for the S14. Hopefully I get it to the track for a few more test runs before swapping out the front suspension.
Re: S13 flcas into s14
I swapped the arms out recently when I thought someone was going to buy my S13. So that's it for the S13 flcas on an S14 experiment.