S13 alignment issue.

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Whitehatchwonders13
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Alright so I'm stumped with this so maybe someone can give their input. I have a 1992 240sx that has never been in any accidents or anything like that. The alignment is dead on rear 10 degrees toe in on both sides, camber is at 1.3 degrees. Front toe is at 10 degrees and camber at 1.1 degrees. Caster is set at 6.8 on each side. When I drive the steering wheel is straight depending on how bad the crown of the road is but when I let go, the wheel and the car itself will steer to the right. Remanufactured rack, New rack bushings, inner tie rods and the outers appear fine as well (No play when shaken down). Pbm coils and the height is even all around. I even switched out the column bushing. Tires are good, radial and lateral run out is good as well and tire pressures are even. The only components that I can say need replacing are the ball joints even though they don't have play the boots are torn and the steering ujoint has a tiny bit of slop. Is there anything that I missed?


mrangry
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Have you checked to see if one of the brakes are dragging?

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PapaSmurf2k3
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^+1
Ten degrees of toe seems like a lot.

Whitehatchwonders13
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My bad .10 degrees yeah that would be massive toe in lol. But it's all up to spec. I think you're on to something mrangry. It does pull left on hard braking sometimes depending on which road I'm on but at the same time if that were the culprit then I would be pulling right way more or am i wrong?

Shelbym240sx
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Try swapping tires from side to side. I've had this issue before a tire had a broken belt. With running more than factory -camber it will enhance the pull at times.

Whitehatchwonders13
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Yeah I recently rotated them but still the same issue. I even changed out the front LCAs (new balljoints and bushings), realigned it and still same issue.

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PapaSmurf2k3
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Did you bring it to the same alignment place? Maybe their rack is off.
Did you sit in the vehicle while it was aligned? You wouldn't think the weight would throw the alignment off that much, but you never know.

Whitehatchwonders13
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Well I aligned it myself at my job so that's how I know everything is in spec but yes the alignment rack could perhaps be throwing off the alignment. I know driver weight does have a slight affect but usually you see the alignment affected the most by overweight people lol. Maybe it could be the crown of the road but for the most part its always pulling right, sometimes on my usual routes the wheel will be slightly straight with a slight pull to the left but then it'll go back to being cocked to the left and then pulling right. I just changed out my steering u joint to get rid of the slight steering free play but that didn't help, Im going to tighten the rack preload and realign it and see if it helps. Thanks for the suggestions so far guys.

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PapaSmurf2k3
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Nice. Let us know how you make out. Try and make sure the wheel is straight when you do it too ha.

Whitehatchwonders13
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So I adjusted the rack preload to where there was no slop but the steering wheel did not want to return to center. Backed off the adjustment so I wasn't doing permanent donuts but the slop is there. Im thinking maybe the rack is defective? Its a possibility since its a remanufactured one. Its also still pulling right just not as bad.

amc49
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You guys need to learn that you can set toe with the steering wheel WAAAAY off and still get perfect toe. You can also set toe and steering wheel perfect and if the caster is not locked then you are still screwed.

When the car wants to go one way or the other that is the caster lock trying to occur and necessary on all cars. The two casters fight to then neutral out on each other. At that time ONLY, the toe must be dead on AND the steering wheel dead straight and then drive the car. Any slight pull to one side or the other then you adjust the outer ties slightly to neutralize that and while driving on many different types of road crown as some are not the same degree as others, you want a good average.

I have aligned my own cars to perfection for 40+ years and using no machine AT ALL. And some up to 200+mph race cars in there too.

Rack preload is ONLY to stop rack rattling back and forth while going over rapidly changing small bumps where first one tire and then the other get jacked by forces back and forth. There is NOTHING wrong with the rack.

If you truly have the wheel taking a set to pull BOTH ways occasionally then the balljoints or LCA bushings are likely dead. Could be ties too.

Whitehatchwonders13
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Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:17 pm
Car: 1993 240sx hatchback
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I do realize that but the steering wheel has been straight prior to any front adjustment. I even redid the caster sweep after the initial alignment and checked the angles again and readjusted to where they needed to be. Everything is in spec and I made absolute sure that the steering wheel is COMPLETELY straight before and after the alignment. I've changed out everything that I could possibly change in the front end, rack, inners, outers, steering u joint, column bushing, lower control arms (with ball joints and bushings), and polyurethane rack bushings. And of course im not ignoring the rear angles because I know they can affect front alignment as well. I align many cars throughout the week from cars to heavy duty trucks and they all come out great but I can't seem to align my own car, its kind of discouraging lol. Also the only reason I believe the rack is bad is because when the wheel is in the straight ahead position theres a bit of freeplay, almost like a dead spot, cornering feels great though.

amc49
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You may well be able to adjust that loose spot out of the rack. On the same subject, I have had them loose enough from wear to take rack apart and flip the pinion 180 to get a new area, the column has to be re-indexed for it possibly as to fit to make wheel straight again. Modern clocksprings make that harder. Basically an almost new rack out of thin air. Or look at the tie couplings, if they look like way to one side then overcorrect them the other way to now make the straight ahead rack engagement point in a new spot on pinion with no wear and the same. The wear spot is still there but off to one side now and you only encounter it with bigger moves of the wheel to go over it so fast you no longer feel any looseness.

If you are redoing caster and finding you need to adjust it again that is clearly telling you something is loose.

You are focusing too much on the steering wheel being straight ahead, it literally means nothing as you can compensate for that. Focus instead on what the pulling to one or both side(s) is telling you. Both ways is looseness SOMEWHERE, can't escape it. One way only is wheel position not lying on top of the caster lock like it should be. Why the wheel force is pulling to one side, the lock has not been achieved. By lock I mean the two casters have negated both their forces on each other in a dead neutral position where they 'lock' against each other. Wheel straight ahead on a rack and under power with car dynamically moving are two totally different things.


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