S13 180SX CA18DET vs 1.5-2nd Gen DSM AWD Turbo which one? (RWD vs AWD debate?)

[Daemos]

So, one of my friends brought up a pretty good point, I live in a city dubbed "winterpeg" and although I see RWD cars driven all the time during our winters, (A supercharged Camaro, Mustang GTs, my Uncles CLK 500, Bmws, mustangs, 240sxs etc)

So I guess this brings up the age ol' AWD vs RWD

So currently I can either get a 180SX with a CA18DET (or even just a normal 240SX w/KA24DE) for the same price of 1.5 gen to maybe a 2nd gen DSM AWD.

Now currently there is NO doubt in my mind that RWD is more fun to drive than AWD. I've driven alot of cars, 350Z, WRX, M3, G35 coupes, the new G35x (blehhhhh)

However, my experience with AWD cars is limited

So between those two cars what would you choose?

This car will be driven all year roundI want a reliable low 12 second car in the 1/4 mileand most of my driving will be done in city, street and AUTOX

Help me decide please ><

[SpeeDDrifT]

well i would take the s13.....thats why i have one now.....i think most everyone will agree....otherwise they would be posting on a DSM forum.......and vice versa....

the real decision is up to you.......what you want out of it........if drag is your thing....dsm.....if autocross is more of your love.....s13........not either is significantly superior..... but 12 sec in a AWD if much easier to obtain.......and at the same time i think the a RWD car communicates with the driver better for autocross.......if snow is a major issue and one that decides what car you want than get a AWD....my car is set up for autocross and drifting...it snow here........but i have another car to drive.

[InlineSix]

I noticed you said reliable. Ive had friends that used to own DSM's. Both of which blew the engines. Knowing this, personally I wouldnt get one.But if you were to pick one over the 240, Id get a first gen. The engines are better.

Jack

[easymmkay240sx]

stick with Nissan. You'll be pissed at the amount of trannies you'll have to replace working with the DSM.

[k6kicker]

yeah dsm's were neevr known to be reliable and now age is rearing its ugly head and the s cars are tkaing it with more grace then the diamond

[masticatingcow]

I want a reliable low 12 second car in the 1/4 mileand most of my driving will be done in city, street and AUTOX

What you're asking here is the impossible. You want a reliable 12 second drag car that's streetable and competitive in auto-x? Sorry man, there are just too many variables involved for that to work.

First of all, what do you mean by reliable? You mean daily-driver reliable? Weekends only? Reliablity is a tough one to accomplish without limiting your performance options or pouring cash needlessly into the machine. If you want a reliable car, get the 180/240sx.

Secondly, a 12 second E.T. will take lots of work, even if you do go with the AWD DSM. It will be next to impossible with the 180/240sx without even more work than that. And you can throw reliability out the window. But, if what you really want is a 1/4 mile screamer, you maight have beeter luck with the DSM.

I think that while the 180/240sx is way better in auto-x, the DSM could (maybe) hold it's own, but again, with a LOT of work. Also, I'm sure you know this, but auto-x is very demanding on the car. To be competitive, you'll need a pretty stiff suspension, race tires and all kinds of other goodies that, while improving the car, literally make it a pain in the *** to drive every day. So in either case, you can probably forget about streetability.

I think what you want is a Nissan. As others have said, you're posting on a Nissan board... you probably know the answer you'd get anyway. Just get the 180/240sx, whichever works, and go with it.

[k6kicker]

yeah a ca is also a heck of alot more fun to drive then a 4g63 too

[Daemos]

I'm honestly more partial to the 180SX as well.

In terms of power/reliablity, low 12s shouldn't be asking too much. I'm estimating 350wrhp, My goal is around 330-350wrhp. From what I've been reading about the CA18DET, it should hold that pretty well.

Of course, I'm going to have the engine rebuilt, the seals redone, metal head gasket, new cams, new head bolts, flywheel, clutch etc, tuning. This isn't gonna be done out of nowhere.

In terms of suspension, I've got quite a comprehensive list of what I want

AS long as it rides like my Spec V, I won't have any complaints, the ride sucks already, and I'm used to it

In terms of streetability, I think it would work. I'm planning to have a PowerFC and a Apexi 3 stage boost controller, so "winter mode" "summer mode" "track mode"

Winter mode will consist of no or little boost, which with steelies and winter tires, will get me through winter fine.

Now I also plan to have a system, so that'll probally make it a mid 12 second car, but it should be okay.

In my cars, the "fast" cars run low 12s, to 10s, and they're streetable daily drivers. Hell there's even a Supercharged Bigblock V8 Camaro that even goes through winter, and it's running 11s

But I'd like to hear what makes it impossible? But maybe that should be another topic, which I will post later tonight.

[masticatingcow]

I don't want this to be an argument, but...

You're thinking in terms of engine and power components. You talk about streetability as if it depends on the amount of power you're churning at the wheels. I would like to hear what you're considering for suspension. You grazed over it so easily, yet that will be the one aspect of the car you'll have a hard time dialing in.

Since you have no doubt researched your suspension options, you already know that high-speed drag and auto-x demand very different and sometimes conflicting suspension setups. I'm not just talking about stiffness anymore; how about camber, toe in and out, body pitch and FR weight balance? You, and every other Spec V driver out there know damn well what pitch can do to your grip on the road, AND if you plan on really auto-xing, you need to have a suspension that is leaps and bounds better than your Spec V.

Look, while it may be possible to mount suspension hardware that'll satisfy all the damands of the (let's face it) totally different tasks you have planned, I'd like to see how you plan to address these issues.

Please don't think I'm trying to discourage you. By all means, go for it. Hell, if you pull it together, you're under the unwritten obligation to post pics! LOL!

It's just that too many of the beautiful "car-to-end-all-cars" projects I've seen and been a part of have drowned in unplanned expenses and unforseen repairs. I'm sure many of the people on these boards could sympathize with that.

[whiterps13]

i definately get your point masticatingcow, but from the list this guy composed it seems like money isnt really an issue. however, these mods may all look fine and dandy on paper, but you put them all to the test when they have to work together. no part of the car can be overlooked. period. everything will have to be changed if want you really want is a car-to-end-all-cars. have you ever taken a look at the Sport Compact Car Ultimate Street Car Challenge? I would highly recomend reading these magazines and seeing all of the aspects of a car that can fail. it seems like someone always tries to build a car that dominates everything, but realistically it is not possible. no matter how much money you throw into a car, it will NEVER be perfect in all aspects. good luck

[Daemos]

I know, I talk to Nick Wong and Sean Morris over on another forum that we're part of, they're VERY knowledgeable espically with GTRs, and they know the ins and outs.

I've already posted another topic about this because it's totally a diffrent topic, but you're right, money might not be an option...I guess

By this time next year I'll have enough money to import the car and have the engine rebuilt.

After a month or two when I get more money, I'll upgrade brakes. Then Sell the Spec V. All the money from the Spec V will be dumped into the 180sx, (boost controller, and suspension will come before anything else )