S-afc 2 vs. e-manage

Post by **chillmieste** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

Hey,I need some opinons on which one is better in the long run. I did some research and they can both upgrade injector size and Mafs. But the emanage you need to buy a little computer to go with it and the afc is its on computer. I can get them for the same price but the emanage comes with everything but the little handheld computer to control it. What should I do, go with the afc or buy the emanage and pay extra for the mini computer to control it.

Thanks,

Charlie

Post by **Redline240** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

Pretty sure the e-manage controlls a lot more than the safc, but i could be wrong...as for the controller you talking about its the E-01 boost controller and its another few hundred, but you do get a ebc then...i think you can run the e-manage off a laptop too, and one of those can be had for pretty cheap...

Redline

Checkered-Member · Post by **Checkered-Member** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

chillmieste wrote:Hey,I need some opinons on which one is better in the long run. I did some research and they can both upgrade injector size and Mafs. But the emanage you need to buy a little computer to go with it and the afc is its on computer. I can get them for the same price but the emanage comes with everything but the little handheld computer to control it. What should I do, go with the afc or buy the emanage and pay extra for the mini computer to control it.

Thanks,

Charlie

in the long run...e-manage is better,

E-Manage pro: 16 points fuel control, can control ignition and injectors.cons: needs software, extra wire harness, and a Lap-Top or PRofec e-01. ($500+)

S-AFC IIPro: Cheaper then E-ManageCons: doesn’t control ignition, only 12 points fuel control (S-AFC I has only 8)

Post by **GTS4-R** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

i have the e-01 and am installing the e-manage this winter/spring with my new turbo kit.....I'm pretty sure I don't need any software since im goin through the e-01 and not a laptop....but down the road I might still get a laptop cause its BADASS to have on sitting in the passengers seat (especially on dates....LOL) And the e-01 has a chip that remembers all the programming and data-logs other info U want....I'll let you guys know how they work out together come spring.

Post by **hurddawg** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

I believe you can adjust only the fuel curve in 6 pts w/o the computer or e-01. the unit is castrated without either of the two

Post by **Yellow4g63** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

Emange ownes the SAFC 2. Timming adjustment and map tracing makes it easy to tune. :ylsuper

Post by **NEED4BOOST** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

don't forget the anti-engine stall map!

-Safa (Emanage lover)

Post by **Jonny 290** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

just ordered the e-manage with support tool for my KA-T. And a new drive and car mount for my laptop.

i think it's the best not-standalone thing out there. i'm looking forward to integrating it with an LM-1 and maybe a custom A-D datalogger on the parallel port

Post by **chillmieste** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

Thanks guys Im probably gonna buy the emanage in the next 2 weeks. I was wondering, I was thinking of using my bro's laptop while I tune it but I cant keep it forever. After Im done tuning the emanage can I take out the laptop without it reseting or somthing?

Thanks

Post by **Jonny 290** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

yes, you can tune it and then unhook the laptop. not a problem.

Post by **chillmieste** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

Hey,Thanks for all the help from everyone, I just have another question. Im getting the emanage with the support tool, can I change my injectors from the stock ka (i think their 280cc or less not to sure) to the sr 370cc without buying the additional harness?

Thanks,

Charlie

Checkered-Member · Post by **Checkered-Member** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

chillmieste wrote:Hey,Thanks for all the help from everyone, I just have another question. Im getting the emanage with the support tool, can I change my injectors from the stock ka (i think their 280cc or less not to sure) to the sr 370cc without buying the additional harness?

Thanks,

Charlie

Yes you can, there is a specific feature in the e-mange that lets you put a new injector size, the additional wiring harness is only if you want to control individual injectors: when lets say you have an unequal manifold, the longer ports; the injectors need less fuel while the shorter once need more (I hope I got that right)

Post by **Jonny 290** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

pretty much, the additional injector percentage allows you to add fuel on a different map than the airflow correction map.

you could have an rpm vs throttle map for the standard airflow map, and then ALSO have an rpm vs boost map for the additional injection map, thereby allowing you multiple angles of tunability. you do need to have the injection harness, however, but it's just an extra wire for each injector, and then a ground, i believe.

standard ka injector size is 270cc. e-manage has an easy function to change the size without touching fuel maps; i'm going to put in the 370's next week because it'll be so easy.

Post by **chillmieste** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

Hey,

I got another question for you guys. I know you guys are gonna say my setup is stupid and wrong but it works just fine. Im using a ka harness and ecu with my sr. A mechanic said im running really rich since I have 370cc injectors and the ka is reading the stock injectors. In a post above they said that there is an easy setup part where I can change my injectors easily with the emanage. Im no tuning guru so I dont want to mess with the other settings and going to a shop to tune it for 70 bucks. So if this would fix my problem running rich I would greatly appreciate it if someone would tell me I need to do somthing else or just fix the injector problem.

Thanks

Post by **Jonny 290** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

yes

there'll be two little boxes in the support tool, you'll type in 270 and 370 and your car will run like stock

Post by **chillmieste** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

Thank you guys so much for answering my questions that means a lot to me and I really appreciate the fast replies.

Post by **240SXer** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

How do you tune it? Do you go off of the AF ratio? Dyno tune? How do you know you've got it setup correctly? I'm thinknig about going with a Emanage with S15bb turbo and 550cc injectors, I don't want a huge hassle tuning. How would that be done? With the laptop can you adjust fuel maps for race gas and can it change timing and stuff?

Post by **chillmieste** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

Hey,I got a local guy to tune it for me using the laptop for 70 bucks.(included a dyno for my car). They use a wideband o2 sensor and AF to tune it. I wasnt their when they did it but I got good gains out of it. Or if you know about using fuel maps and timing you can do it yourself with a laptop.

Post by **Movingviolation240** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

I'm a pretty big fan of the HKS SAFR, more adjustable than the AFC and better than the Emanage (at least I think it looks better). I had an Emanage and I wans't that happy with it. My freind also had one on his MK III Supra and I don't think he liked it either.

I've seen some people get good results from the SAFC, and on paper the SAFR looks better so that's what I'd go with.

Paul

Post by **240SXer** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

I have not heard much about the HKS SAFR. This is what they're propaganda says:

The HKS Super AFR is the very first airflow meter correctional device in the industry with a built in CPU. The advantage of having a built in CPU is that instead of making corrections to the airflow meter voltage/map sensor, the characteristics of the airflow meter/map sensor is inputted in the CPU so it can calculate the most accurate amount of air flow. Since the correction will be made to this specific intake volume, the correction ratio of fuel will be precise and proportionally correct. With an illuminated digital display and face mounted adjustment controls, the compact Super AFR is a simple to use fuel computer that offers many of the advanced features that were once exclusive to full engine management systems. The L.E.D screen is utilized to digitally display all adjustments as they are entered along with RPM and fuel % adjustment (over baseline) in real time. The Super AFR is compatible with virtually any fuel-injected vehicle, 12Volt, 2-12 cylinder vehicle that utilizes a hot wire, Karmen Vortex, airflow meter or pressure sensor. The internal CPU allows it to be versatile and utilized on many of the newer type airflow meters.

The air/fuel Ratio Correction function of Super AFR allows complete fuel curve tuning by offering eleven points between 650 and 8000 RPM of adjustment, that can be arbitrarily moved in 50 RPM increments. Each point of adjustment offers a tuning range of 50% rich to 50% lean of the factory baseline setting in 1% increments. Also incorporated in the Super AFR is the Idle Correction function, where Idle fuel mixture can be adjusted from 50% rich to 50% lean of the factory baseline setting in 1% increments within the idle range of 650-1500 RPM. This offers the ability to adjust idle air/fuel ratios as modification progress and require further specific levels of tuning to compensate for the characteristics of high lift cams and/or larger injectors. The response function, similar to the one in the VPC, allows for adjustments to the fuel settings upon throttle inputs to improve driveability and performance. Much like the corrections made to the idle mixture to compensate for high-lift cams and/or larger injections, the response function can also compensate for differences in fuel requirements upon initial throttle input as airflow characteristics are changed from high-lift cams, larger injectors, and bigger turbos. In detail, the response function allows for management of engine response in milliseconds with six points of air meter signal adjustment between 650 and 5000 RPM that can be randomly moved in 50-RPM increments. Additionally, an Electronic Idle Stabilizer function (EIDS) function, which buffers the dramatic airflow meter signal fluctuations, prevents the engine stalling or stumbling effect associated with the sudden imbalances in the air/fuel ratio of airflow meter-equipped vehicles that utilize discharge blow-off valves that vent to the atmosphere.

Warning: Due to the nature of this product, a lean air/fuel ratio can occur which may cause detonation or other severe engine damage. HKS strongly suggest consulting a trained technician before the purchase and use of the AFR.

It's only 215 at 9second racing. Could a piggyback help me with the stock injectors and stock turbo? Not as far as leaning it out more for power but for runing higher boost (past 14psi)

Post by **Movingviolation240** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

Nothing can help the stock injectors past 14psi. They are all the way open, so no controller can make them open more to give you more gas. But that really dosn't matter because your MAF is also all the all the way maxed out. Plus you don't want to spin your stock turbo past 14psi.

You've come up against a wall, it's gonna take some $$$ to get past it. There's no real easy way around it.

Paul

Post by **240SXer** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

So I basically now need a new turbo, injectors, MAF, FPR, and a FMU. That's cool. Which would be the best to start with because I don't have enough cash to buy it all at once.

So in addition to a Fuel controler you'll need a wide band o2 sensor. Why isnt there (or is there) some controller which works WITH the o2 sensor to automatically adjust it, like the stock stuff does? Tuning seems like a pain.

Post by **Movingviolation240** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

you just need a MAF, Injectors, and either a tunned ECU or an AFC. Don't need an FMU or a FPR.

A wide band is used for tunning, but they run like $600+ so I'd say just 'work the math' and go from there. For instance if you run a SAFC on some 550cc injectors and a 300zx MAF you would settup your car as having a Z32 MAF, and then take everything 33% lean to compensate for the bigger injectors. If you want to tune it more from there just rent time on a dyno with a wideband, it will be cheaper in the long run and give you better results.

PaulOrlando, FL

Post by **240SXer** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

How will you know you're not going to lean or too rich? EGT sensor? How decent is throwing a gauge on the stock O2 sensor. I know it sux but can it tell you basic info?

Post by **IvoryJ30t** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

240SXer wrote:How will you know you're not going to lean or too rich? EGT sensor? How decent is throwing a gauge on the stock O2 sensor. I know it sux but can it tell you basic info?

not really. at high RPM/high boost/WOT the difference between a good AF ratio and too rich is the difference between two led's in the rich section. the stock o2 sensor is just for fuel efficiency while cruising. it lacks the precision for anything else.

Post by **240SXer** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

Will the EGT tell you if you're going too lean?

Post by **IvoryJ30t** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:57 am

yes it will, but the EGT's can also go up as a result of pulled [retarded] timing.

if your gonna do it right, you need a wideband [weither its on a dyno, or you buy one]

S-afc 2 vs. e-manage

S-afc 2 vs. e-manage

Re: S-afc 2 vs. e-manage

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