Rx-7(FD3S) vs. All 240's and Z's

Post by **MaineExport** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

s14=pimpin' wrote: Can the 4WD drivetrain from the skyline also be transfered into a 240? I'm not looking for a monster to rip up the drag strip. 4WD or AWD as well as a turbo would be a nice set up IMO, but all that extra weight may take away from the 240's outstanding handing abilities, what do you guys think? I've heard of a 4WD 240, but could never find anything on it, urban legend maybe?

As they say, anything is possible with enough money!. This is just WAY to complicated to make happen, and justify the expense. You need the dual-output transmission (not technically a transfer case), and the entire drive system.... (differentials, drive shafts, output half shafts, wheel assemblies, cv joints, etc.....etc...etc..) Then you need to consider the custom fabrication for mounting this stuff, custom suspension to fit all of it into, find room under the engine to fit all of it.... the list goes on....... SOOOOOOOOO much work. In the end you could buy several AWD vehicles and make them faster than hell!!! It's an awesome idea, just VERY impractical.

Post by **InstantRice** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

I dont think the gains from that would justify the cash. Isnt awd really just a hinderance aka weight after launch or am i horribly wrong?

Post by **Daunttless** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

standard all wheel drive yes, in fact it slows you down after 100mph. However the Attessa system in the Skyline and the Porsche system in the Porsche are intelligent AWD. They are 100% RWD until the computer senses the need to have power in the front, then it will transfer up to 40% of the power to the front wheels, when you don't need it anymore all of it gets redirected to the back wheels. Works like a standard RWD tranny till you need the grip. Amazing system really. : )

Post by **s14=pimpin'** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

hey swift drift,

good points man, I was actually considering buying a 90 rx-7 T and tuning the crap outta it. My buddies race carts, and their dad owns a mazda tuning company (forgot the name). He took me for a boot once, and this is the high school days, when everyone thought they drove a fast car, but didn't know how to drive. So this guy rips the s*** outta his 7, turns, straights, whatever, and i was sold on the car, especially after seeing the last gen (sick!!!). But then I did my research, and there were alot of problems with the car, seals, gaskets and others. So I elected to get a talon, but the same results, not a very reliable car. Fast, very stylish, but more of a money pit than what i could afford. Once I read about the SR about 4 years ago, I knew what kinda car I was getting, just had to wait to save and get my license back. Nissan all the way!!!

Dauntless, the RB motor was a dream to me about a year ago. Then I find out people in Japan were throwing them into their 240's, so I considered it, but at the time I shopped around, the price was WAY too high! I even picked up a Japanese mag that had an RB 26DETT in a miata!! Now that was tight!! Now that the 240 is getting more press coverage, seems as if the SR and RB motor are being imported regularily, so it might be a practical option afterall. I realise that putting in an AWD or 4WD drivetrain would be one hell of a b****, but as i said, I heard it was done to an S13, thats why I asked. But I'm no mechanic, so as maine and rice put it, a big waste of time unless it was for show. Priced out an S15 black top for $5500, not including IC, wiring harness, clutch as well as all the associated piping and wiring. So with all said and done, including install, probably looking around $10 000 US, which is about $14 000 Canadian, more than double what i payed for my ride. Of course I can get a red top which is alot cheaper, but I would like an engine at least 95 and up. When i have a good amount of money ready, I'll contact you for prices for the motor, thanks for your input, much appreciated.

that is all, for now

good bye

Post by **Daunttless** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

I'm selling complete S15s for 4900 USD. Unless you're getting the incomplete for 5500 CD you might be better off talking to me now. =P

Also, RBs aren't being regularly imported by anyone to my knowledge, its a special order sorta deal. Even for me, I'll be keeping parts in stock but only because I'll have on in my car eventually. : )

Enjoy your day!

Post by **SWIFT_DRIFT** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

agreed s14=pimpin.I actually regret buying the rx7 i had, because if i didnt i would of already had an sr in a 240 three months ago =\And it's true they are soooo big of money pits its not even funny. Yeah sure i wouldnt mind having a fast as hell 7 one day, but it would piss me off to have it work good one day, then have to fix it up the next day, so then i could drive it the day after that!I would much rather have a more reliable car that is nearly as fast as a 7.But after driving my old 7, all I can say is I definitely have somthing to aspire to with tuning my 240 (handling wise anyways).

Post by **s14=pimpin'** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

hey Daunt,

Remember that little arguement 7hedon and I got into? Yeah, well, thats cause heavy throttle quoted me $5500 USD for the S15 motor WITHOUT IC, harness, fans, clutch or piping. To purchase those items, plus install, I figured I'm looking at the 10g mark, give or take a g. When you say complete, you mean EVERYTHING aside from piping? Pretty sweet price, how far of a drive is it to your town from Toronto? Thats why I was asking for a RB kit. Hey, maybe you should be the main importer for the RB motor. Are you getting them from Japan or Europe or Australia or other? To be honest, the cash I have now and coming will have to be used to pay for insurance, debts and to install some suspension items on my ride. We'll be chatting probably closer to winter/spring, but I will contact you once I'm ready. I'd also like to see how your RB install goes, and hopefully Greddy comes out with their KA turbo kit soon, I'd like to see all my options before making my final decision, y'know?

hey swift, don't regret anything in life man, its all a learning experience. You had a car most people dream of. My buddy just picked one up in the winter, and he loves the thing! I keep telling him to get the car checked, but he keeps insisting that its good, nothing will break, whatever. This guy has money to burn, keeps telling me about the '99 front end conversion kit of some sort (Japanese I suppose). He doesn't want to go for power, but I'll talk him outta that soon!

That car is beautiful though. i would have gave you my 240 for it!

Hey, at least you have a set a mark to reach, that is in the 12's or faster with your 240, in order to say that this ride is faster than your last. And you will get there, just set your goals and work towards them.

good luck w/your new car, a nice, reliable 240SX (the handling isn't that bad, but compared to an rx-7.......)

Post by **SWIFT_DRIFT** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

To true

For the price of the 7, the speed is not super spectacular...the handling is what you are paying for. Stock rx7s run 14.5's with no mods or tweaks. You could have a faster 240 for a third the price. I also tried drifting a bit in the 7 but promptly stopped. I mean yeah its hella heLLA easy to do because you can break the tires loose in no time, but man I would feel soo bad if i wrecked it for drifting. Plus how many junkyards around here have rx7 parts? like ummmmm......oh yeah, they are called mazda dealers (which by the way have the worse customer satisfaction rating of ALL dealerships in the world). Man if I drifted a 240 into a curb or whatever, oops, junkyard time, fix, back on the road, more drifting!I also was disgusted with all the little things wrong with my 7 when I had it. These are all common problems with 93's too. The center console dash pieces were peeling because of the ****ty coating on them, the rear hatch squeeks really bad and requires a whole new locking assembly to fix, the passenger handle on the door panel was broken (happens on nearly every car), the sunvisors don't lock into place when they are folded up, and the leather shift knobs nearly melts black crap into your hand because the engine and tranny run so hot. It's just stupid a** little crap like that which gets on your nerves, and especially for such a top end car you'd think it would have been fixed before they even sold it in the first place.http://www.scuderiaciriani.com...a.htmThis is a great link to this guys saga of his rx7. I know not every single rx7 is like this, but it's not very reassuring knowledge in the least.http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/FAQ.htmlThis is also a great link to a ton of info and questions on rx7's. I read everything I could get my hands on before buying an rx7 and still knowing all of their problems I bought one for a while. Looking back I would have rather had an SR in a 240 lol.

Post by **Daunttless** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

Um, no, that S15 price includes EVERYTHING including stock mount IC and piping, its as complete as my S13 motors. : )

You're more than welcome to come down and check things out, I can't remember offhand exactly where Toronto is, but if its by Detroit then you are about 8 hours away from me. : )

Enjoy your day!

Post by **s14=pimpin'** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

Hey Swift,

thanks for the links man, I forwarded them to my buddy, I'm sure he'll appreciate it. I'm gonna save my urge to drift for the track, once I get my shocks, springs and tower brace on that is. Really not worth the trouble it can get you into, although knowing how to properly counter steer can help you out big time. I got rear ended by some jerk on the highway a few months back, sent me drifting at about 140km/hr, but I didn't expect it at that time, and I lost control, totaled my first s14!

So I wouldn't necessarily say you could only smash your car by drifting, it may help you out if some a$$hole bumps ya, but is very dangerous and should be practiced on public roads. Fun all the same though, just be careful, I'm very lucky to be alive. I've never been a big fan of mazda, and the quality of their trims seem really bad. Actually, the rx7 is the ONLY Mazda I like, I used to own a pos 626 (my first car). That thing overheated on me and puked itself on the highway. Had to rebuild the motor. Hey, did your 7 have those ossilating interior fans? Funny feature, exclusive to Mazda i believe.

Dauntless, I'm about 2 hours away from Detroit. Was actually talking to a guy from detroit who said he was ordering a CA off you, thats why I asked. Any idea what an RB25 is gonna cost, complete with whatever I'll need to hook it up? i mean, can I use my wiring harness, haven't really seen any 240 with an RB in her. Again, i won't be ordering anytime soon, but so far, you have the best prices yet. I'll keep in touch. And where were you a month ago? My buddy got ripped off large on a s14 black top. BTW, do you have any parts in stock at the moment? In case he needs anything, I'll give him your email so he can contact you. Do you know how to make the AC work on the s14? I think the guys at the shop are trying to figure that one out at the moment.

party on summer ain't done yet

:ylsuper

Post by **SWIFT_DRIFT** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

Glad to be of help

Post by **Daunttless** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

RB25 will be about 4,000 100% complete as with all my engines. : )

You can't use your harness, you ahve to use the skyline harness, same as with a SR, you need its harness. : ) Well, it makes things WAY easier at least. : )

Or you could jsut go standalone and make everything easy.

Hehe, I was trying to get everything in line a month ago, I was checking the feasbility of doing it. : ) I will be carrying a full line of components for SR20s, so I can get anything he needs. I'll have stock in October. : )

If you're talking about making the AC work on a S13 to S14 swap it can be done. If you're talking S14 engine into an S14, I can't believe they can't figure it out. : )

Post by **s14=pimpin'** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

yeah, its an s14 blacktop going in a 97 s14. i figured it can't be that hard, and from what I can tell from your reply, it MUST be easy. LOL, haven't spoken with him lately, but the shop seemed very compitent, I'm sure they'll figure it out. What do you mean by stand alone, taking out all the toys? Good luck with your shop. How is the import scene in Iowa anyway?

have a nice day

Post by **Daunttless** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

Its getting bigger with me here. : )

Also, by stand alone I mean stand alone engine management. As in like a Haltech, Motec, etc. As in, no more using the stock ECU or wiring harness. : ) Complete control over air/fuel and ignition.

Post by **neurovish** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

Daunttless wrote:I will be putting the RB26DETT into a S13 Hatch. I will be retaining the twin turbos, its not a direct swap. : ) The RB25 is significantly more of a direct swap and doesn't appear to be too difficult for someone with experience.

I will not be selling kits, I will however do in house installations. : )

The weight difference is not significant, when my shipment gets here I'll weigh all three. An aftermarket hood and battery relocation should balance things out a little better, but I'll know for sure how much difference there is when everything gets here.

I was not aware they made a RB35...I think you mean 25, and yes, it has been done by 1 or 2 people in the nation. McKinney has one over in California in a S13 coupe, but I don't know of anyone else offhand who has one, supposedly theres one in South Florida but who knows.

Anything else? : )

ooo, goin for the TT...make sure you post the weights of all three, and toss on some accessories too to get a better idea of how things will be affected (y'know, turbos, piping, etc)

Post by **Daunttless** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

Yeah, one step ahead of ya. : )

For now, I"m going to take Joel's advice and do a 100% stock swap, wire everything into the stock system, no mods, just straight up swapped. Then, once its been done and I have photographic and video evidence I'll tear it back out and build it up like mad. : )

Post by **neurovish** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

Daunttless wrote:Yeah, one step ahead of ya. : )

For now, I"m going to take Joel's advice and do a 100% stock swap, wire everything into the stock system, no mods, just straight up swapped. Then, once its been done and I have photographic and video evidence I'll tear it back out and build it up like mad. : )

heh, you are many more than a single step ahead of me

any ideas about cramming in a couple turbos and their piping?I was planning on copping out and switching to a single 'butt kicking turbo' to save a headache or two...but then again, what's a couple headaches when you already got 50?

Also thinking about just goint the rb25 route, but I'd hate that nagging feeling in the back of my head that it's not a 26

Post by **Daunttless** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

hey, don't think that way. : ) Joel is going with a 25 for his convert, the 25 is like 500 headaches less than the 26. If you want to truck up here for the swap you're more than welcome too, IM me, lets talk a bit. : ) I love chatting with people who are thinking about getting RB projects together, and theres so few you can't pass up anyone who says they're thinkin about it. : )

A single turbo or a top mount setup would save on the steering linkage problems, but that would just take all the fun out of it. : )

Post by **Stoneage_Turbo** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

whats that engine from ?r32 skyline or something ?twin turbo?then again if there was whole engine code i could awnser that heard of rb26 , but out side it i dunno . not schooled up on skylines yet or everthing that had a RB in it outside newer stagea and skyline

Post by **neurovish** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

Daunttless wrote:hey, don't think that way. : ) Joel is going with a 25 for his convert, the 25 is like 500 headaches less than the 26. If you want to truck up here for the swap you're more than welcome too, IM me, lets talk a bit. : ) I love chatting with people who are thinking about getting RB projects together, and theres so few you can't pass up anyone who says they're thinkin about it. : )

A single turbo or a top mount setup would save on the steering linkage problems, but that would just take all the fun out of it. : )

yeah, I know the 25 isn't really that much of a comprimise...going to a 26 is more bragging rights than anything

Trucking up to your shop would be quite a ways for me...over a days worth of driving I'm guessing, there's some people down here who are willing to help me out...1/2 the fun is putting the engine in yourself. I'm thinking about opening up a small shop with a friend of mine who's gonna help me out with the swap...not really do a high volume, just kind of a side project to give us something to do on the weekends, so we're planning on only doing rediculous things that most people wouldn't touch (RB would be kind of tame for what we're thinking...I'd like people to respond with "you did what!?" when hearing about cars we've done), and not even touch any of the more common swaps...there's plenty of places around that will do those, no real need for another one imo.

This of course is all quite far into the future, the RB and what he's planning on doing to his car will kind of be a test run to see if we're capable of it and if it's something we'd want to do. Right now, it's mostly just speculation.

Post by **neurovish** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

Stoneage_Turbo wrote:whats that engine from ?r32 skyline or something ?twin turbo?then again if there was whole engine code i could awnser that heard of rb26 , but out side it i dunno . not schooled up on skylines yet or everthing that had a RB in it outside newer stagea and skyline

rb26dett, came in the r32 - r34 skyline gtrs....I think it also was in the top of the line stageas in those same years.

Post by **s14=pimpin'** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

RB26DETT, wouldn't you be able to get more HP with one huge kick a** turbo? Then again, it takes the bragging rights outta saying, " Inline 6, TWIN TURBO!!"

LOL

Post by **FrEaK** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

One turbo would take enough long to spool up...

Post by **s14=pimpin'** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

FrEaK wrote:One turbo would take enough long to spool up...

Nitrous?

Post by **FrEaK** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

No... you cant spool up nitrous... but i hear you can weave it to make some nice sweaters....

Post by **SWIFT_DRIFT** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

lol no hes saying a small shot of nitrous for the lower rpms until the turbo is spooled.

but i don't like nitrous, can you weave me a sweater while your at it too?

Post by **s14=pimpin'** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

and it would help any cooling issue's that you may come accross. If I was to build a serious drag machine, or even for extra power on the autocross, this is the route I would take. But a stock RB25 under my hood would keep me smiling for a good while, hmmmm, RB26?

hey freak, its getting cold up here man, you knit socks?

Post by **FrEaK** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

Ok i obviously knew about eliminating spool up with nitrous... no i dont knit socks... but i think i may take up te past time.. but guys... big turbos are so ineffiecient...

Post by **SWIFT_DRIFT** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

yah but when big turbos spool as your hitting 2.2 bar of boost....thats like the greatest sound in the world.

Post by **s14=pimpin'** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:16 am

inefficient at low rpm's, but once they kick in, its like night and day! Playing with the cams may be able to help out in the low end department...

let me know when you begin knitting, my toque is getting a little fray

Rx-7(FD3S) vs. All 240's and Z's

RB25

Re: RB25

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