Im starting up the ultimate project, a conversion for my 1990 Q to run off a 90% ethanol 10% gasolene (to help with vaporization) mix. The potential is real awsome, though it will get a little less mileage then gasolene, it would be like having 110 octane fuel in your car. The real benefits come not from the power boost though... but the fact that I can make the stuff in my backyard for about 28 cents a gallon! And lets not forget the OTHER benefits of having 195 proof vodka lying around the house... ha ha, oh yeah... and I think it helps the enviroment too :icesangel

There was a guy hanging around the old format that would love your 28 cent a gallon fuel. His name was Blueballs :fruit or something like that.

That is an interesting project.Please post more details as they become available.

Fred...

What sort of modifications do you think you'll need to make this work? New Injectors, ECU re-program? It sure sounds interesting...

Heath

PRETTY INEFFICIENT!!!!!!!!!!!"Comprehensive energy studies on com production were performed by the U.S Department of Agriculture in 1974, 1978, and in 1988. The amount of energy used for the production of the U.S. corn crop ranged from a high of 7,630,000 BTU/acre in the 1974 study to a low of 7,490,000 BTU/ acre in the 1988 study. Since corn yields were reduced dramatically in 1988 because of the drought, a more appropriate comparison would be the high yielding corn crop of 1987 (119 bu/ acre). As well, the amount of ethanol (2.5 gallon/bushel) and corn distillers (.32 bushel) produced from a bushel of corn and the amount of energy it takes to produce these products needs to be known. This latter figure is hard to estimate as both wet and dry milling processes are used for the conversion with dry milling generally being the more energy consuming of the two. The National Advisory Panel on Cost Effectiveness of Fuel Ethanol Production (1987) states that between 40,000-60,000 BTU is used per gallon of ethanol. A fair estimate of the energy consumed in the processing is therefore approximately 50,000 BTU/ gallon ethanol. As well, the energy contained in the corn distillers must be credited. The main outlet for corn distillers is as a dairy feed. Nutritionally H has the same net energy value for lactation as does regular corn. Therefore we can credit the corn distillers on the basis of the same amount of energy required to produce an equivalent amount of corn.

The energy value of a gallon of ethanol varies from 75,700 BTU 84,000 BTU depending on burning temperature. We will use a figure of 80,000 BTU as this is the energy value of ethanol burning at 25 degrees C.

Based on the high yielding 1988 corn crop of 119 bushels/ acre the energy generated by the ethanol exceeded energy inputs by 16%

Where are you going to store the 400 bushel of corn necessary to make 1,000 gallons.

So somebody put in 50,000 BTU to grow and process the corn then after distilling [uses 18,000 BTU] you are lucky to get 80,000 BTU back netting 12,000 BTU or 1/10 of what is in a gallon of gasoline which wholesale costs 69 cents per gallon.So you are willing to lose 33.4% mileage and pay twice as much.

http://www.arserrc.gov/es/EthanolProcess.htm

Aww, Q45tech didn't even touch on the power loss even after retuning the injectors, timing and compression ratio!

Maybe a a supercharger would make sense if the fuel system could flow at high enough levels.

I still think it's a worthwhile project from an engineering standpoint.Interesting too.

Fred...

If you need 4 acres of corn per car per year that's 800,000,000 acres of corn plus what ever is used presently for food.

http://www.usda.gov/nass/graph...d.htmh ... .r.htm"The area in corn in the United States has varied since 1900 from a high of 116 million acres in 1917 to a low of 64 million acres in 1969. The area planted to corn in 1999 was 78 million acres and 71 million was harvested.So 12-14 times the existing acerage must be planted in CORN, I'll bet it would have to be 25 times to adjust for lower yields in new areas.Central Park in NYC would have to be fenced and plowed over.

It's a BIG FARMER PLOT [AMD].

hah, yeah thats a really good point, luckilly Im buddies with a farmer who lives next door to me! But still most vegetables are pretty ineffecient as youve shown in producing fuel, but there is a really wierd strain of artichoke, the Jerusalem artichoke, and it yields many times more ethanol then any other vegetable. Though im using my friends crop at the moment, I have a 5 acre "garden" that im planning on planting these artichokes in. About the modifications, ethanol is corrosive to many plastics and some metals, im in the process of seeing what needs to be replaced. Also, you can squeeze the most power out of your ethanol by increasing the compression ratio, adjusting the ignition timing, and making the sparks hotter. Its hardly the best biofuel out there, but its convienent and cheap for me.

Manglefish:

Please keep us posted we are all real curious how this will work out.

Fred...

Sounds awesome, cant wait to see it work:ylsuper

I agree with Q45tech on this way, way too innefficient. At Minnesota State University (where I went to school), almost every vehicle that came into our program for something (mostlyl donations, or built cars, whatever), we converted to E-85 (85% ethanol, 15% gas). It's a dumb idea I think personally.

I can tell you though, if you want to do this, some of the things you will have to change...

The fuel pump will need changed. You need a higher pressure fuel system.

You'll have to figure out a way to warm the fuel on cold days. Cold ethanol doesn't like to burn very well.

You will need a way to control the amount of fuel that the injectors put out. Because ethanol has less BTU's/gallon, you need more of it to make the same power. So adjusting the fuel pressure *may* work, but you may also want to consider a SAFC or JWT ecu, custom made ofcourse.

That is the biggest things I can think of off the top of my head. However, I never worked on one of these projects, so I'm sure there is many other problems I can't think of right now.

But I really don't think it's worth it. You make less power, are equally efficient, and costs the same to run (if you buy commercially, at a gas station). The only advantage is you make cleaner exhaust

If you want more information on it, every senior project that was ever done at MSU has been made into an SAE technical paper. I don't know any Tech paper #'s off the top of my head, but search http://www.sae.org for "ethanol conversion" or "E-85 fuel" or something like that. Some projects used E-90 or even E-95, but most were E-85 due to the fact that you can buy that easily in Minnesota (available at many gas stations, for flex-fuel vehicles).

Why not try propane?

Cuz ethanol is not that difficult to change to, compared to propane. From an engineering standpoint, ethanol conversion is fairly easy. (This does not mean it's a simple task, but rather, much less to change than if it were another fuel).

You guys have rained on my parade, but... you are right, its definately not going to be worth it... ah well... I suppose I can deal with having a couple of bottles of ethanol without a car to put it in... :alcoholic

I didn't mean to discourage you from trying something new...but I also don't want to let you waste time on something that doesn't have many benefits.

Yeah, but I only wanted to do it for benefits that dont practically exist, even though I probably would have figured it out on my own before i spent some bucks, its definately not worth it. No money wasted, no problem.