Running E-mannage? How large are your injectors?

[node]

Im trying to find out the biggest injectors that can be run on the E mannage before going standalone.

Also are any of you running lower than stock fuel pressures at idle?

[C-Kwik]

you may want to ask on the e-manage yahoogroup. I think someone was running 50 lb or 550cc injectors on a KA with the E-manage. The limitation is not so much the injector, but the ECU. The E-Manage only modifies the inputs. The ECU interprets the inputs. But there wil likely be a point where either the ECU can not hold an idle as it can't shorten the injector pulse anymore, or the ECU doesn't have any mapping for too low or high an input.

[Checkered-Member]

there is no limit on the e-manage, however you will max out your fuel pump (even aftermarket) and fuel rails way before you'll max out the injectors size with e-manage

[node]

I was more concerned with getting the ECU to idle & if the KA ecu can shorten the injecton pulse that much. C-Kwik thanks Ill check that out.

So, Iguess my question should be. What are the biggest injectors I can run with the stock ECU, regardless of the piggyback system I choose. At what point must i switch to a stand alone. Anyone running 550's, 600's or, 720's?

[C-Kwik]

I know JWT is only aboe to tune up to 720cc or 72 lb injectors right now. I'm not sure if they have tried higher and failed.

The E-manage does have the option of running additional injectors though. You can probably even wire it to fire additional injectors. The E-Manage probably won't have much problem handling the fuel requirements of just about any motor if you use the additional injectors. Since the motor does not need the additional injectors for idle, you won't need to worry about having too short a duration. So you can supplement with some rather large injectors.

[andrave]

I'm gonna try 850cc's and emanage.

[C-Kwik]

Good luck...

[node]

ONLY 720s!! thats good for like 400 HP on the KA right?

andrave keep us posted.

[andrave]

ok, hoping to get the emanage unit in january, but probably won't have machine work done on the engine until spring, don't plan on dropping the engine until may, so don't hold your breath...lol

[yoyoS14]

what are the largest injectors that can be run with SAFC 2? I was thinking it adjust +or - 50% so I can run 550's. 550 - 50% =275cc it will be a little rich. am I correct?

Also I looked up on ebay e-manage and SAFC 2 are about the same price $280-$300, if you guys say that emanage can adjust the injector pulse more than 50%+- is there any other reason people get the Apexi product? I've seen the safc used alot more than emanange, is there an advanatage that safc 1/2 has over emanage?

[240_2NR]

i think its because the S-AFC 2 is easier to program for the injectors unlike e-manage u dont need a computer, and i thought 10.5cc/min=1lb/hr if so that means 72lb injectors are 756cc not 720cc dont quote me though

[C-Kwik]

The SAFC should have about the same range as the E-Manage. They modify the airflow meter signal the same way so it should be bound to the same limitations.

I would hardly rule out using a E-Manage for a lack of a computer. I'm sure most people here have a friend who has a laptop they can borrow for a couple of hours.

And I can see where you mistook what I said about the injectors. What I intended to say was that JWT tuned to either 72lb injectors or 720cc injectors. Not that I was trying to say they were the same. Sorry for the confusion.

[Projex240]

Well here a question. If you wre going to use the e-manage, they what about changing to the 3 bar map sensor? It would probably mean more tuning time, but also it adds layers of tuneability that arent available with a stock MAF. The e-manage has been used on supras and such for a long time with injectros as big as 960's that ive heard about. I dont think that with and e-manage, youll have no trouble using the injector correction feature. As for the computer deal...it IS chreaper to buy the e-01 than it is to buy a laptop, right? SO far , from what ive seen, you can have the e-manage and all its goodies for tuning for about 1100 bux. Thats about a full standalone systems when all said and done. Not to mention the fact that youll always have the advantage of using greddys base maps for a tuning curve. Im using a JWT ecu right now, and have no complaints at all about it. The only thing is that I cannot tune the car myself. JWT uses very basic "flashes" that are used for every car that may fall into the same category of mods you have. But to get the full potential, you know ya gotta tune. E-manage does have an injector correction feature, and I believe that you can control open and close loop funcion...would that help with idle? WHat about the timing harness?Im trying to decide whether to keep or lose the JWT ecu.

[andrave]

The E01 isn't necessary...you obviously have access to a computer since you just posted on the internet, and I'm guessing that the place you would go to dyno has an outlet and an extension cord...it will work on a desktop too. Just a little less portable. Anyway check ebay, you can get a decent older laptop for under 400, its not like you need a new one.Probably even cheaper. Anyway I plan on using the MAP sensor because it, with its harness, is about the same as it would cost to get a Z32 mafs and convert to blow through.

[Jonny 290]

I *was* planning to run an Apexi SAFC, but am leaning towards the e-manage the more I read about it.

First of all, the timing correction is key to me. I'm kinda building for 12psi right now, though I'm only planning on running 5 to 7 after the initial install, with the upgrade coming after forged pistons and 550's.

I don't have a working laptop at the moment...an ancient P133, but it's not worth much.

You don't have to tune anything EVERY day, and you can run rs-232 cables up to about 25 or 30 feet. so, you could theoretically park your ride close enough to your pc to just run the cable out the window.

it's nuts, but it works.

otherwise, i bet you $10 you could borrow a laptop for a day, in exchange for a sixpack or something like that. tune it, stuff it in the glove box and go drive home.

honestly, if you want to look at cost/benefit ratio, the only thing that is TRULY worthwhile is a standalone. i'm seriously considering trying to pick up an old Tec2 or something.

[andrave]

cost/benefit ratio...your alternative to emanage, if you want timing AND injector control (not to mention the degree of control that e manage provides, and the fact that you can switch to a MAP if you choose, which I believe is valuable) is SAFC (at least 280 dollars) and msd 6al with btm... and thats another 300 or so.You can get the emanage for 250, the injector and timing harness for 100 more. And I've seen packages for 400 that included ignition, injector, and support tool. thats not bad.

the boost sensor and harness add another 200 or so to it, depends of course on where you buy it.

but I think its car more cost effective to spend maybe 400 or 500 on something that you can use, than to spend 1200 and up on a standalone when it is so much more advanced and offers more features than most users would ever need or use.

Thats my decision, anyway...

[Jonny 290]

yeah, i'm kinda hoping to snatch up some $450 deal for e-manage, ignition harness and support tool, as i don't care about additional injectors.

The SAFC is a nice piece of ice, and i could very well see the monitoring/measuring capabilities useful for my purpose, but the really wide range injector size adjustment of the e-manage as well as the ignition maps have me pretty much convinced.

hint: the e-01 is silly, though. spend $250 on a 300 mhz ebay laptop, and you get so much more functionality...like datalogging off an LM-1 and stuff like that.

[andrave]

the injector harness isn't just for additional injectors, it allows you to use the full injector correction table for the e manage. the "stock" emanage only allows +/- 25 percent if I remember correctly.

[yoyoS14]

how does the harness make a difference?So you absolutelye have to have a laptop to use e-manage?Is it more difficult to learn emanage than the SAFC ?

[andrave]

for the first part, re readmy post, I just said, it allows you to use the larger table.

for the second, no, you can also use a E01 or a desktop, which has also already been answered in this post.

for the third part, I don't know I've never actually tuned with either.

[Projex240]

E-manage PRofec E-01 Support Tool Ignition Harness Injector Harness PRofec E-01 External Signal Harness PRofec E-01 Pressure Sensor Harness PRofec E-01 Remote Switching System PRofec E-01 USB Cable PRofec E-01 Meter Cable This Full Package for ONLY $1089

This is from mohdparts.com/emanageThis is what you would need to do a full tune on a dyno with all the features available for tuning on a dyno with nig turbo and injectors. I've talked to them, and the reason that they offer this as a package, is because everyone woul try to get by with "just the the basics, and then end up calling back to order the other stuff that they though they wouldnt need in the beginning.

[huguetpj]

Emanage $295Support tool $119Injector harness $32Ignition harness $34Pressure sensor $128Borrowing a laptop six-pack and pizza

Being able to tune your car.... priceless

It's just a slow Saturday, no pun intended.

Anyway the above (E-manage + Support Tool + ignition & injector Harness + Pressure Sensor & Harness) is $575 as a kit. How much is the JWT retune nowadays?

The more I talk about the emanage the more I'm liking it. Gonna go read some FAQs now http://www.mohdparts.com/emanage/EmanageFAQ.txt Although I'm still mainly interested in retuning my own ECU.

[huguetpj]

Nice little cost saving FAQ:

"NOTE: You can buy JUST the ignition harness and use the extra wires for the injector harness. The ignition harness comes with 12 wires and an extra connector to plug into the E-manage. Most cars don't use all the wires – 4 cylinder and rotary cars especially. Look at the E-manage manual, find your car, and find out how many wires you need for igntion control and for injector control. Make sure to add 2 wires to the total if you plan to use additional injectors. If the total is less than 12, buy just the ignition harness and add the extra wires to the main E-manage plug for your injector harness. The injector harness is just some wires with ends crimped on them that you add to the main E-manage plug."

[huguetpj]

Back to subject:

"The E-manage really works well with larger injectors, and larger injectors are highly recommended. Greddy advertises that you can increase injector size 150% - this is not really a limitation of the E-manage, but of the engine itself. Larger injectors will squirt more fuel at their smallest pulsewidth, and too large injectors will cause idling and running problems. But, additional injectors can be added as well to supplement the stock injectors."

[andrave]

I know you can use the common GM 3 bar map sensor for most standalones, and you can get that for 38 bucks or so.I wonder if greddy's is the same... ?

EDIT:Second, you can't get rid of the airflow meter and use a MAP sensor. Even if you add the optional Greddy pressure sensor, you must still have an airflow meter in the system. The Greddy pressure sensor simply adds another basis for your fuel maps in the E-manage - you can use it to tune your fuel maps instead of the input from the airflow meter (very useful if your airflow meter has run out of range), but that's all internal to the E-manage.

So.. whats the point? I'm not sure a see it. Maybe I will end up with Z32 mafs after all...does anyone know that diameter of the mafs? I'm gonna run blow through if I use a mafs, what diameter piping should I run up to the mafs?

[Jonny 290]

Quote »you can use itto tune your fuel maps instead of the input from the airflow meter(very useful if your airflow meter has run out of range)[/quote]That's exactly what it's for.

I'm running blow through with 3" from the IC to MAF and 3" from the MAF to the TB. Will keep it simple, anyways.

[andrave]

right, but in the case of the 240, the Z32 mafs is cheaper than the boost sensor and the harness, and its upper limit is somewhere over 500 hp (generally accepted to be around 550 hp).So what is the advantage of it on a car like the 240?...

Also, are you running a Z32 mafs, with 3" piping? is that because the Z32 mafs is 3", or because...the throttle body is 2.5 right (well its close, I was thinking within a few MM).