rotating assembly

[dsm turned nismo]

I'm looking for the best "bang for the buck" rotating assembly. Like pistons rods bearings. Cheap but decent. Looking for 300-400 hp na

[Razi]

300-400hp on a N/A KA engine is impossible.Do more research.

[dsm turned nismo]

300-400hp on a N/A KA engine is impossible.Do more research.

I have a goal now then. If a little honda 1.8 can make thos numbers na I think I can make that on a ka no prob. Go with about 12:1compression and the right valvetrain I kno it can and has been done

[Razi]

I have a goal now then. If a little honda 1.8 can make thos numbers na I think I can make that on a ka no prob. Go with about 12:1compression and the right valvetrain I kno it can and has been done

200hp has been the max for a N/A KA, and the two engines have more differenences than their displacement.But it's your money, just don't feel too bummed when your "400hp NA build" barely makes 200hp.

Have fun.

[liquid_cool]

I have a goal now then. If a little honda 1.8 can make thos numbers na I think I can make that on a ka no prob. Go with about 12:1compression and the right valvetrain I kno it can and has been done

im running 13:1 NA with a fully built forged everything stage 3 BC cams 272's duel springs..blah blah..you wont get past 225hp to the wheels NA...trust me..ive tryed everything to break that with no luck and lots of wasted cash...turbo is the way to go..some head studs..new pistons and 12 psi..your close to 300hp just like that.

[EgoManiac77]

quick question what grade fuel and sized injectors do u run bc if u are not making 300hp on built 13:1 compression and race gas (witch u have to have with that compression without knocking at very least E85) u or your tuner is doing something wrong. it also sounds like u haven't tried the BC stroker kit. however i do think turbo is the way to go to make power u guys need to step back and think before u tell some something cant be done if u havent explored all ur options. good luck with ur build and welcome to nico dsm turned nismo

[berman]

I'm looking for the best "bang for the buck" rotating assembly. Like pistons rods bearings. Cheap but decent. Looking for 300-400 hp na

if your looking best bang for the buck go turbo or spray. N/A builds on a 4cy get very exspensive if done right

[gumby74]

You obviously don't know enough about engines let alone THESE engines in specific to consider such an unrealistic feat as nothing more than a "goal". You have neither the resources, nor the finances to make it happen with a KA.

Best realistic option would be an Autech SR20 with ITB, and some additional work. Even with the Tomei stroker kit and ITB's that engine will still not break 275. JUN has not had much success in that department either.

Now on the other hand if you are intent on staying atmo with a four banger (make no mistake, I respect that greatly as I am an n/a man myself) consider the S2k powerplant. And don't go getting all offended, try and understand that when I speak, I speak in general terms. It is not even a consideration to boost egos any more than to insult or hurt feelings.

[liquid_cool]

quick question what grade fuel and sized injectors do u run bc if u are not making 300hp on built 13:1 compression and race gas (witch u have to have with that compression without knocking at very least E85) u or your tuner is doing something wrong. it also sounds like u haven't tried the BC stroker kit. however i do think turbo is the way to go to make power u guys need to step back and think before u tell some something cant be done if u havent explored all ur options. good luck with ur build and welcome to nico dsm turned nismo

im not gona flame ya dude..as you obviously havent tryed to build a KA ...even with the BC stroker kit..or even the allmighty on your side can you make 300hp NA out of a KA...if you think this is possible....show us the numbers..and how it was done..so the rest of us can copy your holyness and make our money pits 300whp NA...prove it..or retract thine statement sire!

[liquid_cool]

still waiting for your reply sir....with that monster 300whp NA build your braggin about...we are all really interested in your work..lol

[dsm turned nismo]

You obviously don't know enough about engines let alone THESE engines in specific to consider such an unrealistic feat as nothing more than a "goal". You have neither the resources, nor the finances to make it happen with a KA.

Best realistic option would be an Autech SR20 with ITB, and some additional work. Even with the Tomei stroker kit and ITB's that engine will still not break 275. JUN has not had much success in that department either.

Now on the other hand if you are intent on staying atmo with a four banger (make no mistake, I respect that greatly as I am an n/a man myself) consider the S2k powerplant. And don't go getting all offended, try and understand that when I speak, I speak in general terms. It is not even a consideration to boost egos any more than to insult or hurt feelings.

tell me this then what is it about the ka that is so na power limiting?

[seang]

What isn't limiting about an NA KA24? They were made top to bottom for midrange torque and power.

[gumby74]

tell me this then what is it about the ka that is so na power limiting?

Where to begin? First, let's begin with the most obvious factor. This engine was primarily engineered as a truck, sedan and minivan engine in which low down torque, broad accessible powerband and slower engine speeds are preferable.

Then lets move on to the half-balanced crankshaft that, with any serious revving, will result in spun bearings. Even Nissan's race built KA's don't spin beyond 8500 RPM's. I think I read that in SCC. And since Dave Coleman is an engineer, he is by default smarter than anyone not also an engineer.

Then we can look at the dual chain timing set-up that adds weight against rotation, and I as well as a few others believe, cause harmonic stress to the rod and main bearings. I am not educated enough to prove it, but I know a few guys that probably are, but it's just one of those things that I feel could have been done differently, and as such do not redline these particular engines myself. As it is pointless with out more aggressive cams and a tune, shifting at about 5500rpm's is plenty high enough.

After that we can focus on the head (valve angle/ valve sizing/intake and exhaust runners as well as quench area blah blah blah...) To include intake manifold shape, volume, and runner design all of which are engineered for...wait for it now...low end torque, broad power band and slower engine speeds. Not to mention the sheer size and weight of the valve train. The valves are bulky and heavy, the dual valve spring arrangement while nice, again is bulky and heavy. All these things are bad for high engine speeds.

Look kid, I can appreciate what you are thinking. As mentioned, I also am an atmo man at heart myself. This engine however is not an ideal starting point for anything other than boost and or an effective daily driver with some spririt on occasion. All of the important bits and pieces needed for higher engine speeds are not designed for it. Why do I continue bringing up high engine speeds? Because the typical automotive engine is little more than an air pump. Obviously the more air we can efficiently pump, the more power we ultimately make.

Anyone else that can positively add or detract to anything I have stated please do so. It is in the best interest to the Nissan community to spread correct information, not biased, unfounded opinions.

[liquid_cool]

nice post gumby...thats about it in a nutshell...but im still waiting for his miricle 300hp NA build to show up...lol

[gumby74]

nice post gumby...thats about it in a nutshell...but im still waiting for his miricle 300hp NA build to show up...lol

C'mon now, cain't we all just get along?

Seriously though, a proper crank shaft, a single piece chain (SR style) or timing belt, and a proper valve angle would make this a suprisingly strong breather. Very similar in performance to a Honda B18 with a spacer plate.

Because the Honda engines are much better suited to higher revs the addition of an extra 20mm to upwards of 30mm between the head and block on some engines actually slows down the valve action at higher speeds getting much improved intake and exhaust cycles.

Engines are...really amazing things sometimes. Hell I still look in awe at the VR6 in my GTI. A rediculously narrow angle V6 with all the benefits of both an inline and V engines. Torque from idle to redline, very solid construction. The only real drawback is that in FWD configuration it is a ginormous pain in the a** to work on. But I'll be damned if the exhaust note wasn't so addicting.

[liquid_cool]

humm..possible swapp idea there gumby...torque from idle to redline...hummm...need to think on that one a bit..i might source one and try it!..whats the stock Hp to wheels?

[gumby74]

Factory trim is 203+/- a couple of horses powers with 200lb. ft. of torque. That is the 2.8 liter engine, now the 3.2 liter engine cranks out just over 250. Several cars dyno at about 170 to 180 WHP.

[liquid_cool]

are there any supported aftermarket mods?..im not familliar with this power plant?

[gumby74]

Superchargers from Nuespeed, CEC, and a few others available bolt on kits, turbocharger set-ups and all the goodies to make them worthwhile. Hell even the 1.8T and 2.0T engines are quite stout and capable of building rediculous power levels with surprising driveability and reliabilty. If any drawback to the VR6 powerplant is the unfortunate weight that comes from a cast iron block and 6 cylinders worth of rotating assembly.

[liquid_cool]

Superchargers from Nuespeed, CEC, and a few others available bolt on kits, turbocharger set-ups and all the goodies to make them worthwhile. Hell even the 1.8T and 2.0T engines are quite stout and capable of building rediculous power levels with surprising driveability and reliabilty. If any drawback to the VR6 powerplant is the unfortunate weight that comes from a cast iron block and 6 cylinders worth of rotating assembly.

humm...gona have to look more into this....whats the weight of the block compared to say an RB25?

[gumby74]

Couldn't answer that with any degree of certainty. It is however more compact lengthwise. Fron pulley to flywheel she is roughly the same length and height as a KADE, but somewhat wider because of the manifold layout. The intake plenum has 2 sections, the primary sitting just above the exhaust, followed by the runners going over the head and finally the main plenum. I have seen a few of these engines swapped into the lighter MK2 GTI's running throttle bodies and let me tell you, that is some serious power and speed generated from those little cars.

Just out of curiousity, are we chewing the fat, wasting time waiting for the 300 horsespowers KA? or maybe still working to convince him otherwise?

[liquid_cool]

Couldn't answer that with any degree of certainty. It is however more compact lengthwise. Fron pulley to flywheel she is roughly the same length and height as a KADE, but somewhat wider because of the manifold layout. The intake plenum has 2 sections, the primary sitting just above the exhaust, followed by the runners going over the head and finally the main plenum. I have seen a few of these engines swapped into the lighter MK2 GTI's running throttle bodies and let me tell you, that is some serious power and speed generated from those little cars.

Just out of curiousity, are we chewing the fat, wasting time waiting for the 300 horsespowers KA? or maybe still working to convince him otherwise?

haha...ya that 300hp ka NA will show up when the sun explodes..lol...

i was actually just curious...if you have the coin..you can swap any engine into any car...there are basic swapps easy to be had but there limited NA..ive been pokin around for a lighter wieght NA block with in the 200 to 250 whp range for a swapp possibility...im especially looking for one with ultra cheep replacement parts ..

[Pirate_Freder]

for a high power/lighter weight N/A engine you definitely want to go with the S15 Autech SR20DE. IIRC it puts out just over 200hp stock and of course is all aluminum. Plus the huge support base for the SR platform so parts are beyond readily available.

Also I do believe that the GT3 KA's actually push just under 300hp.

[RustspecS13]

I was going to mention the GT3 KA's.

Their down falls are longevity and cost. Ive heard its 10-12K per motor and they only last a short time. I think it was around 2-3 races? or maybe every race. But they made power every where and spun very high rpms, I think in the 10K range.

But they would need to be totally rebuilt. And of course its not even close to streetable.

~Alex

[gumby74]

For my money, I would go with the Autech, unfortunately their limited-ness becomes a liability.

That leaves the Honda engine. Readily available, incredibly reliable, and generally meets all the important qualifications. Namely a RWD engine, plenty enough aftermarket support, meets the proper power requirements in stock form, and is also a reasonably lighter power plant. The fact that it happens to be an above average starting point does not hurt it either, and it has already been succesfully swapped into other chassis. That in itself means the wiring and electronics aspects of the drivetrain have been conquered to some degree.

[liquid_cool]

all great info..but what i ment by cheep...is next to free..lol...i do everything on a searious budget...i have been thinking of a honda powerplant... in reality..the aftermarket support for them is amazing...there dirt cheep from a yard...and most can easly make 175 stock..and minor bolt-on's net proven gains....but then again..there is the SR staring back at me..or even the RB series...ive seen some RB's selling for $500. long block but needing rebuilds..thats not to bad...SR from japan are still running 1kish...the only down side to the RB swapp is the weight issue...humm lots to think of..

[RustspecS13]

How do you expect to EVER make 300-400hp for nearly free????

Going and "acquiring" a vette engine is the only way you could possibly do that. And I hope you get caught.

[yankabilly72]

How do you expect to EVER make 300-400hp for nearly free????

Going and "acquiring" a vette engine is the only way you could possibly do that. And I hope you get caught.

^^^ or an 5.0 with a turbo

[liquid_cool]

How do you expect to EVER make 300-400hp for nearly free????

Going and "acquiring" a vette engine is the only way you could possibly do that. And I hope you get caught.

i said..finding an engine next to free bud...take it into context!...i build for my team mates man..we do things on the cheep..that means reaserching and pulling parts from a junk yard..and MODIFYING them to work on our builds...

example: we got a k searies honda power plant from a yard..in running condition for 450..we then added a garret T3 we nab'd off of a saab 900 for 50 bucks...does this enlighten you a bit?...you really need to have a greater understanding of building on the cheep before you call someone out as a possible thief!...or even suggesting others do the same on this forum....racing is an expencive hobbie...for those who love what they do..they learn to save as much money while still gaining performance within a budget..its not easy and takes dedication...thanks to this dedication...guys like me have come up with easy mods for guys like you and others on this forum by experimentation and fabrication of junkyard parts and chasis and engine swapps......

now im not gona flame you...but you really need to apologize for your insinuation and behavior and retract that lame statement...