Hi, I'v been trying to uncover some more information Re: the subject above, but have been unsuccessful. FYI, this is for a future <15lb boost engine. Feel free to point me to a previous post if you know of one.
I want to retain my stock DE rods. What modifications are necessary to fit Ross forged pistons to those rods? Wrist pins are usually incl, correct? I am asking this to get a price quote from a local machinist.
Lastly, are the Ross pistons available in 9.1:1, or 9.5:1 'off the shelf', or is this a custom job(all I see on the net are ~8.5:1). For price reasons I would prefer not to have customs built.
Thanks,-Jamie
Ross forged + stock rods?
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240sxOwner
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TrunkMonkey
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Re: Ross forged + stock rods?
last time i checked, custom made pistons weren't much more than the off the shelf stuff, and yes they come with pins and will fit oem rods.slipnfall wrote:Lastly, are the Ross pistons available in 9.1:1, or 9.5:1 'off the shelf', or is this a custom job(all I see on the net are ~8.5:1). For price reasons I would prefer not to have customs built.
-demetrius
oem ords--use them and save money. The ross pistons are nice. Klattr uses them, and ill be using CP's. Wiseco and ross are nice brands to go with. There have been people who have said that when certain pistons are fitted witha stock rod, then they lose the "full floating" effect. I dont know if this is true or not.
my engine is being built (as we speak) with Ross 8.5:1 forgies and stock rods. There was no extra cost to fit the stock rods with the machinist, so I assume the wrist pin is the right size and requires no extra work.
The machine shop was a little bit worried about using stock rods at first, but then they saw the rods and took it all back- said they were some of the beefiest they'd seen in a 4 cyl. ever.
The machine shop was a little bit worried about using stock rods at first, but then they saw the rods and took it all back- said they were some of the beefiest they'd seen in a 4 cyl. ever.
Thanks for everyone's response - I contacted import performance parts and it seems they are willing to work with me for seperate parts.
They'r kit seems a little too expensive for me, but I guess if you figure in -$500 for pistons, 400 for all the other stuff, it's reasonable. I was looking for a more complete timing kit.
edit::the above kit does not contain *any* timing components. oops, misread. That plus a timing kit is really getting up there in price. I guess I should have seen it coming...
Fiz: what are you replacing Re: the mechanical timing parts? Obviously chain, tensioners, maybe idler. Do you think the above mentioned kit is worth it?
I'm glad to hear that the OE rods will work w/out modification. The less machine work that *has* to be done, the better(for me, err my wallet).
Hey thanks again for everyone's input.-Jamie
They'r kit seems a little too expensive for me, but I guess if you figure in -$500 for pistons, 400 for all the other stuff, it's reasonable. I was looking for a more complete timing kit.
edit::the above kit does not contain *any* timing components. oops, misread. That plus a timing kit is really getting up there in price. I guess I should have seen it coming...
Fiz: what are you replacing Re: the mechanical timing parts? Obviously chain, tensioners, maybe idler. Do you think the above mentioned kit is worth it?
I'm glad to hear that the OE rods will work w/out modification. The less machine work that *has* to be done, the better(for me, err my wallet).
Hey thanks again for everyone's input.-Jamie
actually I was toying with the idea of not replacing the timing components at all on this engine. the set that was originally on the engine is in perfect condition from what I can tell.... then again a $150 timing kit doesnt really seem like that big of an expense when I'm spending thousands on building up this engine. I havn't really looked into kits that much yet but what I can tell the complete setups go somewhere around $150 or so?
Too bad, a while ago some website had a typho on their online store and was sellin the kits for $70 or so with free shipping. A bunch of guys snatched them up before they caught the error. I missed out.
Too bad, a while ago some website had a typho on their online store and was sellin the kits for $70 or so with free shipping. A bunch of guys snatched them up before they caught the error. I missed out.
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burnin240sx
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hell yeah spending thousands:
Machine work labor shortblock: $1000Machine work labor head: $500Ross Pistons: $600Ferra Exhaust Valves: $200RPS 6 Puck Clutch: $400The engine itself: $200Clevite rod and main bearings: $100Felpro Complete gasket set: $125Cometic metal headgasket: $80ARP Rod bolts: $50Replacement rod for bent one: $50Timing kit: ?$150Water pump/Rebuild kit: ?$150+
Thats $3305 right there, and that doesnt even include ANY of the actual turbo or supporting parts.... Little things add up like crazy man- I know the labor is a little bit expensive but this guy is as good as they come and I really trust him -- not only to do good work but to give good advice and not BS me one bit.
Burnin no I've never heard of anyone really messing up a rod unless conditions were seriously wrong inside the engine-- and when that happens it usually doesnt matter what kinda rods you have. I (and my machinist) really dont feel like a beefier rod will serve a worthwhile purpose in this engine: especially when I dont plan to rev it any higher than stock at all.
Machine work labor shortblock: $1000Machine work labor head: $500Ross Pistons: $600Ferra Exhaust Valves: $200RPS 6 Puck Clutch: $400The engine itself: $200Clevite rod and main bearings: $100Felpro Complete gasket set: $125Cometic metal headgasket: $80ARP Rod bolts: $50Replacement rod for bent one: $50Timing kit: ?$150Water pump/Rebuild kit: ?$150+
Thats $3305 right there, and that doesnt even include ANY of the actual turbo or supporting parts.... Little things add up like crazy man- I know the labor is a little bit expensive but this guy is as good as they come and I really trust him -- not only to do good work but to give good advice and not BS me one bit.
Burnin no I've never heard of anyone really messing up a rod unless conditions were seriously wrong inside the engine-- and when that happens it usually doesnt matter what kinda rods you have. I (and my machinist) really dont feel like a beefier rod will serve a worthwhile purpose in this engine: especially when I dont plan to rev it any higher than stock at all.
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95_Nissan 240sx
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[quote=" fiznat Timing kit: ?$150 [/quote]
fiz: be prepared to shell out some bux if you buy the timing components as a kit or set. Courtesy Nissan wants ~$425.
They include your drive belts, h2o pump/hose, thermostat, and the timing chains. Plus then include the upper tension/slack chain guides, which should be ommited anyways($88 to throw away). And this doesn't include any sprockets! Price for just the following from them:
Upper/Lower chains and tensionersTension boltsFront crank and cover seal
is $205.
I can understand why they would incl water pump, thermo, etc, etc, but for somone who needs just timing components, check out http://www.overnightautoparts.com.
This is where the $66 timing kit 'oops' originated. They include almost everything(incl sprockets) in their kit. I'm sure the stock sprockets hold up very well, however for only $215 for the kit, heck, I'll put new in. From the original thread, these parts are mfg'd by the same company who makes them as OEM parts. This is who I'll buy my timing stuff from.
-Jamie
fiz: be prepared to shell out some bux if you buy the timing components as a kit or set. Courtesy Nissan wants ~$425.
They include your drive belts, h2o pump/hose, thermostat, and the timing chains. Plus then include the upper tension/slack chain guides, which should be ommited anyways($88 to throw away). And this doesn't include any sprockets! Price for just the following from them:
Upper/Lower chains and tensionersTension boltsFront crank and cover seal
is $205.
I can understand why they would incl water pump, thermo, etc, etc, but for somone who needs just timing components, check out http://www.overnightautoparts.com.
This is where the $66 timing kit 'oops' originated. They include almost everything(incl sprockets) in their kit. I'm sure the stock sprockets hold up very well, however for only $215 for the kit, heck, I'll put new in. From the original thread, these parts are mfg'd by the same company who makes them as OEM parts. This is who I'll buy my timing stuff from.
-Jamie
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95_Nissan 240sx
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Well I recently found out my engine has a hole in the block, so I'm planning on buying a used 97 ka from this Guy in New Jersey and I was looking around for places to maybe work on it and I found that one(Carlquist Competition Engines) in the phone book. I'm from Thomaston which is like not even 10 minutes from Oakville. Do they do good work there?
yeah they do man. give me a call at 860 575 3200 if you wanna talk about it more, but seriously I talked to a lot of shops and Carlquist really knew their stuff, didnt bullsh!t me one bit, and were actually willing to give me some time to talk my project and ideas through. Bill, the owner, does a lot of the work still-- he's the only guy I talk to over there so if you call, ask for him.
If you want work done though man, seriously get on their list now. It's been over 3 months for me waiting now, and they're finally just finishing up my stuff. They're EXTREMEMLY busy over there (a testiment to their reputation no doubt), so plan ahead.
Gimmie a call if youve got anything specific you wanna talk about: CT meets, your project, whatever!
If you want work done though man, seriously get on their list now. It's been over 3 months for me waiting now, and they're finally just finishing up my stuff. They're EXTREMEMLY busy over there (a testiment to their reputation no doubt), so plan ahead.
Gimmie a call if youve got anything specific you wanna talk about: CT meets, your project, whatever!
damn--i guess im getting an even better deal than I though. They are assembling the motor and everything with new gaskets and everythig for me--i dont have to buy anything. I did forget to throw in the cost of the arp rods bolts and the metal h/g. thouhg. 1000 in labor is too much. It doesnt matter who they are. the machining can only be done one way---the right way. If they machine correctly--the block takes no more than 1 or 2 hours to do.if that is machine and assy--then maybe i could see it--but it still is a little high for what id pay.I usually dont count in the clutch in my motor build up, either. so i guess i can see how you added up to thousands.
ONe thing though--save some money and dont pay 150 freaking bucks for a water pump.
its 37.00 from autozone. 150--whoever you are buying it from--go smack them.wait--nevermind--i --uh---have an "extra" one laying around that i "forgot" about---ill sell it to you for 150--hehe..j/k--lol
The timing kit--you dont need a new one--just get new tensioners and make sure the guides are good--the chain shouldnt need to be replaced. its not necessary 9 out of 10 times.
-Josh
ONe thing though--save some money and dont pay 150 freaking bucks for a water pump.
its 37.00 from autozone. 150--whoever you are buying it from--go smack them.wait--nevermind--i --uh---have an "extra" one laying around that i "forgot" about---ill sell it to you for 150--hehe..j/k--lol
The timing kit--you dont need a new one--just get new tensioners and make sure the guides are good--the chain shouldnt need to be replaced. its not necessary 9 out of 10 times.
-Josh
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Aaron_9349
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burnin240sx wrote:fiznat you know of anyone having problems with the stock rods and boost 16psi+?
According to Sound Performance out of Illinois, there is an S13 out of Chicago that is pushing 19psi on stock block, which they built the turbo kit for and dynoed at +400whp. Except the engine only had 20k original miles on it.
And the stock rods are forged on our engine, so they can handle some abuse. I replaced mine with Crowers, and compared them side by side. The only downside is the stock ones have an oil hole right threw the top, going to the upper crank to rod bearing. Otherwise they are pretty good for stock.
yeah $1000 for labor is a bit much, but it includes a lot of things besides just the bore and hone: micropolish crank, magnaflux rods+block, deck the block, o-ring the block, full race balance (which includes balancing the clutch), complete assembly, file fitting the piston rings, 2 step flywheel refinish (using stock flywheel), etc etc... there are a ton of little things that I probably forgot as well. I'll post the whole list w/ pics when I get the engine back next week or so.
I realise it's expensive still-- but there are a few things that I dont mind overspending on to get perfectly right, and this is one of em.
I realise it's expensive still-- but there are a few things that I dont mind overspending on to get perfectly right, and this is one of em.
fiznat wrote:hell yeah spending thousands:
Machine work labor shortblock: $1000Machine work labor head: $500Ross Pistons: $600Ferra Exhaust Valves: $200RPS 6 Puck Clutch: $400The engine itself: $200Clevite rod and main bearings: $100Felpro Complete gasket set: $125Cometic metal headgasket: $80ARP Rod bolts: $50Replacement rod for bent one: $50Timing kit: ?$150Water pump/Rebuild kit: ?$150+
Holy ****box I can build *2* fully built motors with ross pistons and pauter rods for that much dough... Do yourself a favor and assemble the motor yourself. It isn't hard and if you have problems you'll know more about the motor :ylsuper
oh and the water pump is about ~$60 from courtesyparts.com
What is your HP goal ? and what is the application? drag, drift, road course, autox, street?
I didnt mean to say the waterpump itself cost $150, I'm talking about a kit that inculdes the water pump, oil pump, blah blah... a rebuild kit, you know..
If you can build 2 for the amount I've spent, tell me where I'm overspending. I understand the machine shop is a little pricey (see above), but I dont have a lot of the tools or experience to know how to put together a motor like this. There are a lot of small tolerances and whatnot you really need to pay attention to when putting it together, I'd rather just have it done right considering the amount of $$ this thing costs.
Anyways besides labor, I dont see any particular part on there that I really overpaid for at all.
HP goal is 350-400 rwhp, application is street/road course/drag.... little bit of everything: I plan to have fun with it, if you know what I mean.
If you can build 2 for the amount I've spent, tell me where I'm overspending. I understand the machine shop is a little pricey (see above), but I dont have a lot of the tools or experience to know how to put together a motor like this. There are a lot of small tolerances and whatnot you really need to pay attention to when putting it together, I'd rather just have it done right considering the amount of $$ this thing costs.
Anyways besides labor, I dont see any particular part on there that I really overpaid for at all.
HP goal is 350-400 rwhp, application is street/road course/drag.... little bit of everything: I plan to have fun with it, if you know what I mean.
the things you mentioned are what a machine shop should do when they assemble ANY motor at all. If they are telling you they are doing you extra services with all of that stuf--they are bs'ing you. the only thing that may cost extra is the knife edging of the crank, but the shop im using is doing mine for free with teh assy. The fly--that is part of the rebuils, so ids microposlihing the crank, and as is line honing o ringing, etc. Im not saying that the labor is WAAAAY high--just that its a bit high for what you are getting--a standard performance rebuild.
And also--they had BETTER file fit the rings. Those rings are pre-gapped pretty poorly fromt eh factory. When you run boost, you have to have alot of gap to allow for alot fo expansion, this means a lil mor blowby, but only when cool, and not in boost. If they hadnt file fit the rings, theyd expand and contatc the wall, scratch it, break themselves, and all kinds of nasty stuff. Are you sure these guys arent taking you for a ride? If they do good work--GREAT. butdont let them make you think they are doing you a great service by doing all of that stuff. Thats all standard for a boosted motor.
-Josh
And also--they had BETTER file fit the rings. Those rings are pre-gapped pretty poorly fromt eh factory. When you run boost, you have to have alot of gap to allow for alot fo expansion, this means a lil mor blowby, but only when cool, and not in boost. If they hadnt file fit the rings, theyd expand and contatc the wall, scratch it, break themselves, and all kinds of nasty stuff. Are you sure these guys arent taking you for a ride? If they do good work--GREAT. butdont let them make you think they are doing you a great service by doing all of that stuff. Thats all standard for a boosted motor.
-Josh
Good luck man 
If you have the money to pay a shop to do it, by all means do! I just had the shop do my machine work (only spent $500) and I assembled the motor... I didn't upg the valve train, I am running a '97 head with 38k miles on it. I just had it checked for warpage and such.
Mike lee runs a stock valve train and put down 546WHP.. I don't think upgrading the valve train is worth the expense
-jeff
If you have the money to pay a shop to do it, by all means do! I just had the shop do my machine work (only spent $500) and I assembled the motor... I didn't upg the valve train, I am running a '97 head with 38k miles on it. I just had it checked for warpage and such. Mike lee runs a stock valve train and put down 546WHP.. I don't think upgrading the valve train is worth the expense
-jeff
I realize it's all standard-- doesnt mean it's free though
This shop has an extremely good reputation, I would be VERY surprised if they were taking me for a ride-- and I'm at least 98% sure that they're not myself - just based on my own experience, knowledge, and research.
The engine is done next week, not much more I can do about it at this point anyways. I've been very happy with the quality of work and service they've provided me with so far, I dont forsee having any problem with this motor-- and if I do, I'm sure they'll make things right.
Thanks for your concern though.
This shop has an extremely good reputation, I would be VERY surprised if they were taking me for a ride-- and I'm at least 98% sure that they're not myself - just based on my own experience, knowledge, and research.
The engine is done next week, not much more I can do about it at this point anyways. I've been very happy with the quality of work and service they've provided me with so far, I dont forsee having any problem with this motor-- and if I do, I'm sure they'll make things right.
Thanks for your concern though.
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