Rogue with a noisy engine

[kaf169]

After starting my 2008 rogue during cold weather, the engine is noisy. In fact it sounds like there is no oil in it and the lifters(if it has suchthings) are all banging away. It takes until the engine is fully warmed up for the noise to quiet down. Have taken it back to the dealer twice and been told that the noise is normal. Does everyone out there agree with the dealer......Tim

[Couz]

The Rogue is quite loud when its cold...I think its normal.

[DELL]

SAME HERE WITH MY 2010

[philipa_240sx]

Yes, it is quite normal for the Rogue's engine to be noisy when cold. You usually hear 2 noises:

1) A constant clicking that rises and falls with rpm... and even at idle. This is valve train noise and it's due to the design of the engine.

2) A metallic rapping noise that occurs when accelerating. This is called 'piston slap'. Some consider this a sign of a worn engine, but in the case of the Rogue it's due to the engine design and not wear. This is a very long stroke 4 cyl engine, that combined with the piston, rings, and connecting rod design produces the piston slap you are hearing.

Nissan did not deliberately create a 'noisy' engine. They chose a design that provides efficiency, good power at low rpm's, and low emissions. The cold start noise is a trade-off they had to make to reach that goal. Once the engine is fully warmed up, the noises disappear.

There are no wear related issues either. I put over 140,000mi on my '03 Altima with the same motor and never had problems. No oil consumption, engine damage, etc.

[crayb]

After warming a bit, I find that the Rogue engine to be VERY quiet. So quiet in fact that I have hit the ignition a number of times b/c I didn't realize it was running!

Ray

[AznJohn22]

after warming up and driving around awhile, it is still noisy. i pop open the hood. seems to be coming from the belt next to the coolant and wind shield fluids. i thought it was the fan running.

is this normal?

[DanTheMan]

I have about 1800 miles on my '10 and I really don't hear any difference in cold/warm engine start-ups. I recently changed the oil to PP synth. 5W-30. Nothing seemed to change.

On a side note, my brother-in-law, who drives a SAAB, took my Rogue for a spin yesterday and couldn't stop talking about it.

Cheers!

[kerrton]

after warming up and driving around awhile, it is still noisy. i pop open the hood. seems to be coming from the belt next to the coolant and wind shield fluids. i thought it was the fan running.

is this normal?

The noise should reduce significantly after it warms up, but keep in mind when we say "cold start", we mean really cold by most standards, like well below freezing, into the -20 deg celcius range. Cold starts above freezing don't cause nearly as much engine noise, in my experience.

If your engine noise doesn't reduce after it warms up, I suppose there could be a problem but it's very difficult for us to guess what it might be unless you can be really specific describing the sound, and ideally capturing a sound clip for us to listen to would be the best.

[kerrton]

I have about 1800 miles on my '10 and I really don't hear any difference in cold/warm engine start-ups. I recently changed the oil to PP synth. 5W-30. Nothing seemed to change.

On a side note, my brother-in-law, who drives a SAAB, took my Rogue for a spin yesterday and couldn't stop talking about it.

Cheers!

Hey Dan, in my experience the engine noise isn't really that excessive at startup, but rather when you start driving without letting the engine warm up. At 2000 rpms in say -20 deg celcius weather with a cold engine the Rogue sounds like it's going to rattle apart sometimes, and under these conditions it will take at least 10 to 15 minutes to warm up and reduce the loud rattling and ticking noise.

Perhaps you've not driven in cold enough weather to fully experience this?

[DanTheMan]

Perhaps you've not driven in cold enough weather to fully experience this?

Kerrton, you are 100% correct and I hope I don't have to drive my Rogue in that cold of temp.

I see in the replies above that you all are a little more North than I...

Happy New Year!!

[Hiflyer001]

Took my 09 Rogue in for the recalls and mentioned to the SM the engine seemed to be quite noisy. For about 1 second after the engine starts, it sounds like worn hydraulic lifters pumping up but the clatter goes away almost instantly. The engine is noisy but quiets down after it completely warms up. I use 10w30 Syntex Oil and have no problem. The SM said the engine is designed for 5w30 weight oil because of the tolerences in the engine and that is what the manuel recommends. Will change to the lighter weight later and see if it makes a difference.....One never knows. The engine does run smoooooth and gets overall 25mpg. I expect more then 30mpg on the interstates. Any comments will be appreciated. Tnks

[philipa_240sx]

For a more technical explanation...

1) Valve train noise: It's caused by the direct acting valve train design. There are no hydraulic lifters to compensate for changes in tolerances as the engine warms. The cam also has a fairly small base circle which results in a steep ramp on the lobe... this can result in a 'tap' as the cam lobe opens the valve. During cold starts, the metal contracts slightly increasing tolerances... and creating more noise.

2) Piston slap: The QR25DE uses a long piston stroke combined with a short connecting rod. This long stroke results in a small combustion area diameter which improves emissions and increases torque. The piston rings are also located very close to the top of the piston. This reduces the 'dead space' between the rings and the top of the piston where unburned hydrocarbons can collect and increase emissions. Both the long stroke/short rod and piston ring design spacing results in the piston getting shoved slightly into the cylinder wall during the power stroke. This is the piston slap you hear, esp under acceleration. The piston expands as the engine warms, decreasing the tolerances and the slap noise disappears.

Solutions:

Using a different viscosity or brand of oil can affect how much noise is produced. Even changing the oil can result in reduced or increased noise. You can try a heavier weight oil (ie 40 weight) or different brands and experiment. A good resource on oil testing for Nissan engines and all other makes is http://www.bobistheoilguy.com forums. See what others have tried.

Why it's not an issue:

The startup noise is a trade-off of the design Nissan used to achieve the power and emissions goals for this engine. It's a characteristic that will never go away. I have put a combined 190,000+mi on two different Nissan's with this engine and they both exhibited the same noise. I never had any oil consumption or wear issues related to the noise.

[Pescakl1]

Using a different viscosity or brand of oil can affect how much noise is produced. Even changing the oil can result in reduced or increased noise. You can try a heavier weight oil (ie 40 weight) or different brands and experiment. A good resource on oil testing for Nissan engines and all other makes is http://www.bobistheoilguy.com forums. See what others have tried.

To help you a little bit as there is plethora of information on this other forum (still interesting to go over there if you have some time):

- A lot of people say that Pennzoil oil is quite good to keep the engine noise down as compare to other oils.Last winter, I was using Synpower Valvoline oil and after a work day in the cold, I was having some noise until the engine got a little warm. This winter I have PP in the sump but my car is garaged and I don't use it anymore to go to work (public transportation) so I cannot conclude yet that it helps. I may have soon to use my car again, so I may be able to tell in one or two months.

- Some people say Mobil1 oil is not a good match with Nissan engines (great oil for Hondas and Toyotas) as the metallurgy of Nissan engines is different ("softer" alloys used).

As Philip said, having engine noise in the Rogue is normal and usually after about 30 seconds, everything is back to normal. Just, no redlining of the engine while it is cold .

[Hiflyer001]

Picked up some Castrol Edge 5w30 and will have it put in the motor monday. Took my car into the mountains west of Denver and it really does run good up 6% grades. But, when it hits above 4500rpm the valve noise really kicks in. I'll just live with it as long as it doesn't effect engine longivity. Don't know why they didn't use lash adjusters of something to quiet the motor. Oh well. Still is a nice car. On the way down out of the mountains the TPMS light came on flickering for a while and finally went solid and then went out. Another little annoyance with Nisson.

Thanks for all the info. Appreciate it.

[muskokabird]

I just had a whole new engine installed in my '09, SL, AWD Roque after the dealer heard it on a cold start, (-20 C), 30000 KMs, courtesy of Nissan. They supplied me with a '09 Altima for 4 days, and it had the same noises on cold start (maybe a little worse) than the old engine in my Rogue. The kicker is that my new engine seems noisier yet on cold starts!!! Will not tell my dealer this though--he has treated me like royalty!! I now believe that is the nature of the beast---once warm--quiet and as smooth as butter!!! Also have experienced the cold weather-no door open thing--on both doors. Dealer repaired with updated mechanisms!! Love my Rogue!!

[Hiflyer001]

I think when the weather warms up a bit this noise thing will disappear.It seems to be a nice car........when you get to know it...ha Good info.

Since it seems the cam lobe pushes down directly onto the valve assembly we should use an oil weight that would less likely drain back into the oil pan or maybe some kind of oil additive. Hopefully, Castrol Edge 5W30 has stuff in it for this purpose.....Just a thought.
Modified by Hiflyer001 at 7:40 PM 1/24/2010

[kerrton]

I just had a whole new engine installed in my '09, SL, AWD Roque after the dealer heard it on a cold start, (-20 C), 30000 KMs, courtesy of Nissan. They supplied me with a '09 Altima for 4 days, and it had the same noises on cold start (maybe a little worse) than the old engine in my Rogue. The kicker is that my new engine seems noisier yet on cold starts!!! Will not tell my dealer this though--he has treated me like royalty!! I now believe that is the nature of the beast---once warm--quiet and as smooth as butter!!! Also have experienced the cold weather-no door open thing--on both doors. Dealer repaired with updated mechanisms!! Love my Rogue!!

Well it definatley seems to be the concensus here that the noise is normal for this engine. I'm surprised how quickly your service dept jumped at the conclusion that the engine needed to be replaced. Surely they have to perform some checks such as compression, oil consumption etc. to document the deficiency and the need for a complete replacement. Although, Nissan seems to be a company that very willingly agrees to maintenance work approvals, whereas Ford, GM etc.. have strict limits on monthly warranty work that they approve for any given dealer (according to a friend who has worked for several dealers including Nissan).

This can be a good thing for owners, or a pain when they don't know the cause of the problem and just randomly replace parts in the hopes it will fix the problem like with my steering wheel squeek, then you end up in the dealer far too often!! But I'd gladly go with Nissan rather than Ford etc. and be denied esential warranty services.

[casperfun]

I just had a whole new engine installed in my '09, SL, AWD Roque after the dealer heard it on a cold start, (-20 C), 30000 KMs, courtesy of Nissan.

I find that absolutely unbelieveable. Or its hard to imagine. Not that I doubt you, but you must be royalty or CEO of nissan....j/k!

But getting a whole new engine on a vehicle that practically brand new or less then a year old is really something. Just because your engine was noisy. I find the engine noisy as any other typical 4 cylinder. But its really quiet when inside the vehicle which is all that matters to me. I just cant see removing a whole engine unless it was really ruined like running it with no oil.

It just seems thats too drastic unless it was more than noise thats all.

[philipa_240sx]

Since it seems the cam lobe pushes down directly onto the valve assembly we should use an oil weight that would less likely drain back into the oil pan or maybe some kind of oil additive.Modified by Hiflyer001 at 7:40 PM 1/24/2010

The oil filter has an anti-drainback valve that is supposed to help this.

Another source of noise has been the hydraulic timing chain tensioner. Some grades/types of oil can cause the tensioner to respond slowly on startup causing the rattle. It's not a cause for concern, but you may wish to try another brand of oil to see if it improves.

[Hiflyer001]

I'm getting the oil changed to Castrol Edge 5w30 from Syntec 5w30 this afternoon for no other reason then to see if there might be an improvement of any kind. If nothing else, hopefully the engine will last longer. It has 7500 miles on it now. Its only a dollar more per quart.

Personally, I think I will eventually run something like 20w30 to quiet this motor down. Especially during the summer heat. Thats 20w cold and 50w hot. According to what I read on another site....... I always thought 20w30 was 20weight cold and 30 weight hot.....

[philipa_240sx]

I always thought 20w30 was 20weight cold and 30 weight hot.....

You are correct. 20W30 is 20 weight 'cold' and 30 weight hot. There is no other method/standard of labeling oil grades. Obviously it's a typo or mistake.

[RogueGuy45]

Hey Dan, in my experience the engine noise isn't really that excessive at startup, but rather when you start driving without letting the engine warm up. At 2000 rpms in say -20 deg celcius weather with a cold engine the Rogue sounds like it's going to rattle apart sometimes, and under these conditions it will take at least 10 to 15 minutes to warm up and reduce the loud rattling and ticking noise.

Perhaps you've not driven in cold enough weather to fully experience this?

I've noticed the noise but I like it. It relaxes me When you have driven cars in Minnesota as long as I have, you learn to overlook funny noises at -20 degrees F.

[Hiflyer001]

Well, I have been driving the last couple days with the new 5w30 CASTROL EDGE oil in and so far it has made a considerable difference in the engine 'noises'. Enough to make the engine sound norma after a couple minutes of driving. I am really quite surprised. If it continues this way there will be no noise issue. The temperatures got down in the 20degrees F.