Rogue Acceleration

[brianf]

I purchased an 2009 Rogue. It is front wheel drive. When accelerating slowly from a very low speed the RPMs momentarily drop and the vehicle actually slows even though I am pressing the gas pedal. I had it checked by the dealer. They told me it is normal for the Murano and Rogue CVT. My wife drives an Altima. Same engine with CVT. No issues in the Altima. Anyone experience the same issue? Is it indeed normal for the CVT?

[kerrton]

Mine does this too, if I'm interpreting your description properly. It is the moment when the torque converter is locking up and the CVT is selecting a very high gear ratio for peak efficiency, and with me it results in a surging effect and like you said, applying additional pressure to the throttle at this moment doesn't produce an immediate effect, it takes a good second or two for mine to get past this point and for acceleration to proceed. I don't care for this sensation at all, so I always apply a little more throttle right from the start when taking off to avoid this and the problem is now non-existent. I do believe that this is not a defect but an inherant feature of the CVT.

The reason why everyone won't experience it is because the CVT tunes itself to your driving habits (adaptive logic they call it), so if you're very conservative and light on the throttle and braking your car will be more likely to experience this because it will quickly select that high gear ratio and drop rpms, whereas if you're more aggressive and hard on the throttle you'll always be in a lower gear with higher rpms and won't experience this problem. I'd suggest driving a just a little harder on the throttle and the problem will disappear, and mileage shouldn't be affected much if you just make a minor change. It's either that or live with it, and that's not something I want to do.

[brianf]

You described it well. You are correct, if I hit the pedal harder to accelerate faster it does not happen at all. I'll try anything. I really do not like the delay. Do you know if turning off the overdrive(I believe that is what it is called) will decrease the frequency?

[ahhbeebee]

So kerrton, am I reading your post correctly - you've now retrained your car to NOT exhibit this behaviour? or are you continuing to gun it a bit more of the line?

[kerrton]

Definately, if "overdrive off" is selected this won't occur. It happens because it's selecting too high of a gear too early, while at the same time the torque converter is locking up and not enough throttle is being applied - this gives efficiency benefits but in my opinion it's not a good thing. It is distracting and overall unsafe, and I'm not convinced that it's not hard on the CVT components, so I prefer to avoid it.

If you do use "overdrive off" it'll likely be a pain though, because you'd have to turn it on each time before accelerating and then turn it off once you get going, and this may not be ideal for the CVT either. My advice is to just apply a little extra throttle when taking off, ensure you get the rpms up over 1500 and then after 4 or 5 seconds you can ease back and the rpms will drop down to around 1200 for smooth and efficient cruising. It's second nature to me, and as a result I no longer have this issue. Good luck.

[kerrton]

ahhhbbeee, no I'm still a very conservative driver so I still experience this if I go too easy on the throttle, it still happens to me a couple times a week when I accidentally go too easy on the gas. It doesn't take much to get rid of this effect, I'm not talking about gunning it or anything, just a little more throttle than I'd normall use and all is good.

As far as the ECU re-learning new habits, I'm not familiar enough with it to know how long that would take, or if after it reaches a certain point it stops "learning". It might take a re-flash of the ECU by your service department to erase the memory and start over, not sure.

[ntwrkd]

Definately, if "overdrive off" is selected this won't occur. It happens because it's selecting too high of a gear too early, while at the same time the torque converter is locking up and not enough throttle is being applied - this gives efficiency benefits but in my opinion it's not a good thing. It is distracting and overall unsafe, and I'm not convinced that it's not hard on the CVT components, so I prefer to avoid it.

If you do use "overdrive off" it'll likely be a pain though, because you'd have to turn it on each time before accelerating and then turn it off once you get going, and this may not be ideal for the CVT either. My advice is to just apply a little extra throttle when taking off, ensure you get the rpms up over 1500 and then after 4 or 5 seconds you can ease back and the rpms will drop down to around 1200 for smooth and efficient cruising. It's second nature to me, and as a result I no longer have this issue. Good luck.

How does one turn the "overdrive off"? Are you referring to putting the cvt in manual mode?

[philipa_240sx]

How does one turn the "overdrive off"? Are you referring to putting the cvt in manual mode?

The paddle/manual shift Rogue's do not have an overdrive on/off button.

Kerrton (and myself) have the more basic version without the manual shift... and the overdrive on/off button.

[brianf]

Still kind of disheartening that the solution is to change your driving habits. I've owned about every Nissan and never had an issue. I'd rather there be a mechanical fix or adjustment that could be made.

[kerrton]

Yeah I agree totally, I can't say that I'm really thrilled with the CVT in the Rogue, and I know that I didn't experience this on the test drive so I can't even blame myself. Don't get me wrong, I really like this vehicle and nothing else could touch the value for the price at the time (things may be a little different now, I bought mine before the recession hit), but I'm still neutral on the CVT, some days I do love it and others I hate it. It offers a lot of benefits, but some annoying negatives too.

My advice would be to mention it to your service manager, just discuss it with him and see if he has any ideas, perhaps they could re-program etc.. I doubt it but it's worth mentioning that you're not happy with one aspect of the vehicle. If anything new comes up please post it up for us, good luck.

[kerrton]

Now you've got me thinking more about this.....I drive an Escape Hybrid for work, it supposedly has the same Jatco CVT as the Rogue (as does the Jeep Patriot and Compass), but it performs and feels very different than my Rogue.

First of all, it is MUCH smoother than my Rogue, I feel abslutely no jerking or sensation of shifting like I do with my Rogue, regardless of how I drive it, it's very nice and smooth other than the engine is noisy as it always is holding high rpms.

This makes me wonder, why does the Rogue CVT jerk so much? Even beyond the issue we're discussing here, the CVT jerks a little bit every time just before you come to a stop, have you all noticed this or is it just me? It isn't a big deal but it is noticeable, and also when you are decelerating for example, and instead of continuuing to come to a stop you stop braking and get back on the throttle, there is usually a little bit of a jerk or surge. Again nothing indicating a problem, but definately not what I would call "super smooth CVT operation" like Nissan claims. The Escape on the other hand really is completely smooth in all situations. I realize that this is a hybrid vehicle so it's quite different, but the "smooth" factor of the CVT should be roughly comparable with the Rogue I would think, perhaps the Escape doesn't have a torque converter like the Rogue, and this is the source of the small jerks that I feel? Anyway, it's something that is interesting and I just have to accept, but I can't help wondering why?

[RogerRouge]

Yes I noticed the rpm drop off and I think it is normal. I do not think you are actually slowing down. The engine gets quiet with the rpm drop off, but you are still slowly accelerating. Must be part of getting better MPG. I have 25K miles so I have gotten use to the CVT.

[brianf]

I was reading about the Cube and interestingly enough it sounds like Nissan made an adjustment to the ECU. From Edmunds:

"Thanks to the new Xtronic CVT and a tweaked ECU, the new Cube is quicker off the mark and more responsive to smaller throttle inputs..."

Now if they can offer an upgrade to ECUs already out there!

Called the Service Dept. where I bought mine. They are going to take another look at it.

[philipa_240sx]

The Rogue CVT is already part of the newer generation of Jatco CVT's. Actually the Altima CVT became available before the Rogue as a 2007 model. The programming on each is likely different and likely not cross compatible. A simple upgrade may not be a possibility.

Kerrton, not sure where you got your info regarding the Escape. AFAIK, the Escape Hybrid CVT transmission was not built by Jatco. It's a very specialized transmission that incorporates both a gas engine input and electric motor. Possibly developed by Ford in house? In any case, it's worlds apart in terms of operation as compared to the Jatco CVT.

Jatco does not have a CVT that is hybrid compatible... at least not one that I am aware of. The system on the Altima Hybrid was sourced from Toyota and does not use the Jatco CVT.

[kerrton]

Sorry for the mistake, and thanks Philip for the correction - that would explain why the driving experience is so different.

Also a good reminder that we do have a new and improved CVT model, no need to wish for anything newer or better!! Regarding re-programming the ECU as new advances are made, I think this is unlikely as the dealer can't change anything that would alter the fuel efficiency of the vehicle, if you want to make changes it would likely have to be done aftermarket (i.e not by Nissan).

[philipa_240sx]

From what I've read in the manual, software updates are handled by the CONSULT III diagnostic tool. It puts restrictions on what software can be loaded in a particular vehicle. It likely will not allow software from another Nissan to be loaded in the Rogue computer(s).

BTW, Chrysler uses it's own CVT computer and programming. They just get the bare CVT transmission from Jatco.