rod and piston combo

Discuss topics related to the VH41DE, VH45DE, VK45DE, and VK56DE engines.
phongshader
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:49 pm

Post

I'm new to the vh45de so go easy on me. I'm looking for a rod and piston combo that isn't astronomically priced. I come form the Buick215/Rover community where swapping pistons and rods from other makes, mostly Chevy, is done on a regular basis. I'm in the middle of converting a 4 ltr engine to a 5 ltr by swapping out stock rods with sbc rods and pistons and offset grinding the crank from a 2.8" stroke to 3.4".
Has anybody done this to a vh45de? I saw a post by defrag010 but it looks like he edited out his portion of the thread.
This is what I'm thinking, making the assumption that the block deck height is 8.675", stroke 3.255", combustion chamber volume 54cc, and a .030" head gasket.
manley modular ford 4.6 stroker pistons 3.7" bore, 1.2" pin height -23cc dish (they come in several dish volumes) 595470c-8
modular ford 4.6 stroker rods 5.85" length be bore 2-2.125", be width .940", wrist pin .866"
I'd have to narrow the rods down to .865" from .940" turn down the crank rod journals to either 2.125"or 2" ( the 2 sizes I found for this length rod) and bore the block to 3.7". By the way how much can the block be bored before going through the liner? Is .065" too much?
With this setup the engine will have an 8:1 cr and a 1.8:1 rod ratio but the piston is out of the hole by .002". I don't know about the availability of after market head gaskets, but with rovers you can get gaskets from .020" up to .050". I don't see being out of the hole by .002" if thicker gaskets are available. If they aren't I could reduce the stroke by .004" to put the piston at zero deck clearance.
The pistons run from about $630 and up, the rods from $250 and up, Although the rods I found for $250 seemed questionable. Has any one heard of SGI rods? Me neither. Found them on ebay and unless some one has something good to say about them I' gonna pass.
Excluding the con rod machining and possible piston notching, which could be considerable, parts would put this at give or take $1k for forged pistons, forged rods and a pretty solid rotating assembly, which is considerably cheaper than a set of CP pistons @ $1.4k a set.
So am I dreaming or is this a realistic possibility? My goals here is a 600+ hp TT build. Rip away :chuckle:

PS I just noticed that the wrist pin on the pistons are chevy sized, .927" so rods are much more plentiful and cheaper too :biggrin:


carfrk666
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:45 pm
Car: 1993 Infiniti Q45
1995 Nissan 240SX
Location: CT

Post

i have been thinkin about strokeing the crank, its alot of time and money to do so. it gets expencive. boring the block out 0.065 might be cutting it close because the sleeves are only 0.080-0.100 think on the wall, but theres truely only one way to find out :) if the piston is out of the hole .002 then thats not going to be a problem as long as the valve pockets are cut deep enough for the cam your putting in, thats very close to zero deck. ive personaly never hurd of SGI rods. what kind of material are they made of and what design? with my build i can tell you im gettin rods made up from K1 technologies and pistons from CP NOT cheap lol but thats the price you pay for insurance. anything is possible when building a custom engine, good luck man

phongshader
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:49 pm

Post

These are the rods:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SGI-Forg ... 2306400d98
After some more research on piston I found that Diamond makes a forged piston, pn 30121, with a pin height of 1.169, bore dia 3.640, and a -15.5 cc dish. with a stock stroke and a 5.85" rod that would leave the piston .029" short of the deck, 7.99:1 cr, and a rod ratio of 1.8:1. With a .030" gasket the piston deck clearance might be a bit excessive but you could offset grind the crank .025" to bring the deck clearance down to .016", 8.23:1 cr, a rod ratio of 1.78:1, and pick up 50cc.

carfrk666
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:45 pm
Car: 1993 Infiniti Q45
1995 Nissan 240SX
Location: CT

Post

buying those rods would totaly be up to you, they dont even show a picture of there product, stock 4.6 rods are powdered and will hold 600+ hp however and are much easyer to find and cheaper

klh6686
Posts: 291
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 8:34 am
Car: '92 FB stock daily
'90 FB w/ RB20
'92 FB w/ VH45

Post

I was wondering if this topic would ever pop up, I look forward to hearing about some discoveries being made to increase the aftermarket support for the VH!

silv8
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:44 am
Car: s13 vh45det

Post

Please keep us posted, i have finished my s13 vh45det and ran out of valve springs at 5500rpm. I am in the process of getting a decomped motor built and this info would be great.

kingkilburn
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:41 pm
Car: '93 240SX
Contact:

Post

Wont you still have valve floating issues with the lower compression? The pressure from the turbo will still push the valve open, no?

silv8
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:44 am
Car: s13 vh45det

Post

I have cams and valve spring sorted from the guys at Franklin cam services in New Zealand.Google them. They where a great help, i am hoping there product is as good as there service, as for the pistons and rods this is interesting, i have convinced myself to build an engine so saving some bucks on custom gear would be good.
Also dose anyone know if the Chev rod and piston set up was ever tried?
i remember reading a thread on it a couple of years ago?

phongshader
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:49 pm

Post

I think the problem you'd run into using chevy pistons, at least the Icon pistons I was looking at, is the bore diameter would be too big, 3.736", about .100" over the stock bore. There's probably not enough liner to overbore it that much. If you went with the ford mod pistons from Manley, pn 595470c-8, that's a 3.7" bore and uses the same wrist pin diameter as a chevy so you could use a chevy rod, but even a 3.7" bore is a .065"over bore...is there enough liner? I don't know, I'm just doing the research right now so I'm just talking from looking at a lot of different specs to see what might work...on paper. On the other hand you could just re sleeve the block and go with a larger bore but that costs about the same as a set of custom pistons...

DRFTBLD
Posts: 311
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:54 am
Car: 89 S13 VH45DETT
05 Ford F-150 Drift Support
91 S13 Tester
08 Ford Focus
Location: Green Bay, WI
Contact:

Post

This is a great topic. I had heard that some of the H22 parts fit the VH engine.

phongshader
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:49 pm

Post

What's a H22 and what parts are interchangeable?

klh6686
Posts: 291
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 8:34 am
Car: '92 FB stock daily
'90 FB w/ RB20
'92 FB w/ VH45

Post

H22 is a honda engine and I believe he is referring to the valve springs. I'm looking at the possibility of mitsubishi 4g63 valvesprings as well.

phongshader
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:49 pm

Post

Ahh, ok

DRFTBLD
Posts: 311
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:54 am
Car: 89 S13 VH45DETT
05 Ford F-150 Drift Support
91 S13 Tester
08 Ford Focus
Location: Green Bay, WI
Contact:

Post

phongshader wrote:What's a H22 and what parts are interchangeable?

Sorry should have put that.... damn smart phones.To hard (or I'm to lazy) to type all that.

Yeah the H22 is a honda engine. The valve springs are meant to be a direct fit. haven't tested for certain.

I also heard the rods from some honda engine would fit too.

brainfood
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:08 am
Car: 1972 Datsun 510
1992 Nissan Skyline GTS-T
1995 Infiniti Q45
Location: Eagle Rock, CA
Contact:

Post

I've been giving a lot of thought to this as well if I could make 100hp/liter N/A then that would be plenty for an s13.


Return to “VH45DE / VK45DE / VK56DE Forum”