well I knew this would catch up to me sooner or later. I got a very bad rocker tick at idle and i did notice that i can wiggle them from side to side and a few lopes on the cams aren't wearing down evenly like for an example one half is nice and shiny and the other half still has the the paint still on the cam.
When i was installing the HG and cams I tiped the head over and all the little rocker spacers that sit ontop of the valve springs fell out. and basicaly i thought they were all the same but I guess i was wrong. I remember seeing that they are spacers that are designed just for that part of the rocker, and valves is this correct?
Another question is I know i can get the rockers from enjuku but does anyone know where i can get these little spacers? and if i get new ones then does it matter where i put them? or since they are new i can just put them in. put new rockers in there and call it a day?
My last question i have is about my lifters, I thought the stock lifters were Hydrolic but when i took them out of my head. they are solid and you can't push them in at all so i assumed they were solid lifters that some jap installed along time ago before the sr came to the US.
IF anyone has helping info on this It would help me out big time.
Rocker problem
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9240sx
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SR20DET + RS*R-Apexi-Nismo-Trust-HKS= 100% pure love - Location: New Mexico
Re: Rocker problem (Sil80315)
You can use the guides and shims off of the usdm sr20de engines,But you cant just install them.You have to measure and re-face them to get them all into specs..I can get you the correct specs on them if you need..Thats the only way your going to have everthing wear evenly...Or you can send out your head and have JGY Customs do all the measuring and re-facing for you..They send you a before and after,And tell you how much they took off each guide and shim,Pretty cool servcie they have..
And the stock lifters sound be easy to push down..Maybe just old and clogged up with dirty oil and such..
And the stock lifters sound be easy to push down..Maybe just old and clogged up with dirty oil and such..
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ILikeMy240sx
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the reason why your cam lobes are wearing unevenly is because your guide and shim is not correctly sized. When those fall out and you just randomly place them, your tolerance will be off.
For HLAs, Nissan recommends the height difference between the guide and the shim when its sitting on the valve stem to be less than .001 inches for proper operation otherwise things are not even and your valvetrain will be toast in a very short time.
All guides are 3mm and you adjust the shim size to get within that difference of .001". To do this, you need a plate and dial tool. Basically, the dial is held at a reference point and you put the dial on the guide and zero it out. Then you move the dial without moving the reference point and place it over the valve stem on the right. The difference is the size your shim needs to be +- .001"
The tool is very very expensive but contact Matt from importintelligence to rent one. Also you can use those shims and guides from a SR20DE as they are the same. Tomei sells them too for their solid lifter application but you can also use those as they make more sizes to fit your needs.
You can also use a feeler gauge to measure the clearance between the rocker pad and the cam lobe on the guide side then try to get the clearance on the shim side to come within .001". This is a tedious process and not much accurate than the plate+dial tool as it is up to the user's feel to determine the correct clearance. Make sure you take 1.43 rocker ratio into account when you calculate. So the distance between the rocker and the cam multiplied by 1.43 will be the distance between the rocker foot will move. Check out my head building thread for more info but for HLAs, you do not need to set a certain clearance like .15mm since the HLAs can adjust. You just need to measure the clearance on the guide side and match up the shim side.
E-mail me if you need help
For HLAs, Nissan recommends the height difference between the guide and the shim when its sitting on the valve stem to be less than .001 inches for proper operation otherwise things are not even and your valvetrain will be toast in a very short time.
All guides are 3mm and you adjust the shim size to get within that difference of .001". To do this, you need a plate and dial tool. Basically, the dial is held at a reference point and you put the dial on the guide and zero it out. Then you move the dial without moving the reference point and place it over the valve stem on the right. The difference is the size your shim needs to be +- .001"
The tool is very very expensive but contact Matt from importintelligence to rent one. Also you can use those shims and guides from a SR20DE as they are the same. Tomei sells them too for their solid lifter application but you can also use those as they make more sizes to fit your needs.
You can also use a feeler gauge to measure the clearance between the rocker pad and the cam lobe on the guide side then try to get the clearance on the shim side to come within .001". This is a tedious process and not much accurate than the plate+dial tool as it is up to the user's feel to determine the correct clearance. Make sure you take 1.43 rocker ratio into account when you calculate. So the distance between the rocker and the cam multiplied by 1.43 will be the distance between the rocker foot will move. Check out my head building thread for more info but for HLAs, you do not need to set a certain clearance like .15mm since the HLAs can adjust. You just need to measure the clearance on the guide side and match up the shim side.
E-mail me if you need help
yeah Ill be deffently email askin for your help cause this seems like a very long tedious process. The question i got is how do you adjust the shim? like ok you got the little spacer thing that sits under the rocker but its a solid piece of metal so what do you adjust to move that up and down?
also do you know extactly where i can get new rockers and these spacers? Id figure i can get the rockers from Enjuku but Im still hunting down these spacers and do you have a ball park price im looking at to do this myself other then send it out to get done profesionaly?
I think you and I will become great friends in the future lol
also do you know extactly where i can get new rockers and these spacers? Id figure i can get the rockers from Enjuku but Im still hunting down these spacers and do you have a ball park price im looking at to do this myself other then send it out to get done profesionaly?
I think you and I will become great friends in the future lol
would these lose rockers also cause crappy idle and maybe even alittle spuddering? cause when i drove it today and i was sitting a light the car felt like it had huge cams in it and was shakin the car but when i got back to my shop thats when i heard the rockers ticking..bad. Should i take a pic of the cam lopes?
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9240sx
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SR20DET + RS*R-Apexi-Nismo-Trust-HKS= 100% pure love - Location: New Mexico
Re: (Sil80315)
They are adjusted my machining the flat end of the guide & shim..You just machine off the amount of metal you need to get it into specs..Just go to you local Nissan parts dealer and order new rockers,guides,And shims..You can order for a 91 sentra SE-R..Sil80315 wrote:yeah Ill be deffently email askin for your help cause this seems like a very long tedious process. The question i got is how do you adjust the shim? like ok you got the little spacer thing that sits under the rocker but its a solid piece of metal so what do you adjust to move that up and down?
also do you know extactly where i can get new rockers and these spacers? Id figure i can get the rockers from Enjuku but Im still hunting down these spacers and do you have a ball park price im looking at to do this myself other then send it out to get done profesionaly?
I think you and I will become great friends in the future lol
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ILikeMy240sx
- Posts: 5358
- Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 2:49 pm
- Car: SR Power
No, you do not need to machine anything. Nissan sells various sizes and thats how you adjust. No machining necessary.
If you try to order shims from Nissan, the first thing they will ask you is what size? So measure and determine what size you need and then order.
also if you cant find a size that Nissan makes, as Ive mentioned Tomei makes alot more sizes as well.
If you try to order shims from Nissan, the first thing they will ask you is what size? So measure and determine what size you need and then order.
also if you cant find a size that Nissan makes, as Ive mentioned Tomei makes alot more sizes as well.
I emailed Jeff at heavy throttle and he told me If i really do have solid that i just need to make sure the rocker arms sit flat on the valves
But my question about the lifters is what makes them hydrlic..are the lifters themselfs hydralic or are they hydalic when you put them in the head? like do they float up and down inside their sleeve in the head that makes them hydralic?
Another question is what if i order all the same size shims? do i still have to dial everything in?
I just got told to use a feeler gauge? and use that to find out what size i need. Now is it possable to just to use the shims and guides i have in there now or since i have new cams do i need to order all new shims and guides?
Modified by Sil80315 at 12:37 PM 3/9/2007
But my question about the lifters is what makes them hydrlic..are the lifters themselfs hydralic or are they hydalic when you put them in the head? like do they float up and down inside their sleeve in the head that makes them hydralic?
Another question is what if i order all the same size shims? do i still have to dial everything in?
I just got told to use a feeler gauge? and use that to find out what size i need. Now is it possable to just to use the shims and guides i have in there now or since i have new cams do i need to order all new shims and guides?
Modified by Sil80315 at 12:37 PM 3/9/2007
Re: (otterman)
Yeah even when i took them out while there was still oil in the head..i tryed everything like pushing them with my fingurs, i tryed pushing them by pressing against a wall and i think i even tryed using a vise clamp. I also tryed squeezing them in a bowl of oil and they didn't move at all.otterman wrote:My HLA's that have been sitting outside the head for a while. They're pretty hard to push in too, you might have to let them sit in oil for a while.
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ILikeMy240sx
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I feel like Im repeating my self over and over as to how to do this.... kind of frustrating. *sigh* no you cant just order same size shims... damn it you need to order the CORRECT SIZE YOU NEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HLAa are oil operated (hydraulic) meaning there is oil going in and coming out and the oil pressure keeps the HLAs a solid piece meaning its not supposed to squish when you push down with your thumb during normal operation. If the HLAs cant keep up with how fast the valves are opening they will "squish" and when this happens your rocker arms will get tossed.
Ok, if you want to use a feeler gauge, here is how you do it....
Put the guide and any size shim you want on the cylinder that you want to measure. Bolt down the cams and make sure you torque them to spec. And measure the clearance on the guide side. Now say that the clearance was .006 then you want the clearance on the shim side to be .006 so go measure the clearance. Most likely your clearance will be off. Say it was .009 then you obviously need thicker shims because the clearance is too large. You want to decrease that gap by .003.
Now take that difference of .003 and multiply by 1.43 (rocker ratio) and it will give you .0043 so you need a shim that's thicker than the shim you have put in by .0043"
If you want to use the plate and dial tool (this is much more accurate) and I recommend this as it will be faster and easier. Follow this guide.
http://www.sr20forum.com/showt...=shim
you can get this tool from Matt form Importintelligence. Speak to him.
HLAa are oil operated (hydraulic) meaning there is oil going in and coming out and the oil pressure keeps the HLAs a solid piece meaning its not supposed to squish when you push down with your thumb during normal operation. If the HLAs cant keep up with how fast the valves are opening they will "squish" and when this happens your rocker arms will get tossed.
Ok, if you want to use a feeler gauge, here is how you do it....
Put the guide and any size shim you want on the cylinder that you want to measure. Bolt down the cams and make sure you torque them to spec. And measure the clearance on the guide side. Now say that the clearance was .006 then you want the clearance on the shim side to be .006 so go measure the clearance. Most likely your clearance will be off. Say it was .009 then you obviously need thicker shims because the clearance is too large. You want to decrease that gap by .003.
Now take that difference of .003 and multiply by 1.43 (rocker ratio) and it will give you .0043 so you need a shim that's thicker than the shim you have put in by .0043"
If you want to use the plate and dial tool (this is much more accurate) and I recommend this as it will be faster and easier. Follow this guide.
http://www.sr20forum.com/showt...=shim
you can get this tool from Matt form Importintelligence. Speak to him.
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ILikeMy240sx
- Posts: 5358
- Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 2:49 pm
- Car: SR Power
Re: (otterman)
otterman wrote:Can you repeat that?
ILikeMy240sx wrote:I feel like Im repeating my self over and over as to how to do this.... kind of frustrating. *sigh* no you cant just order same size shims... damn it you need to order the CORRECT SIZE YOU NEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HLAa are oil operated (hydraulic) meaning there is oil going in and coming out and the oil pressure keeps the HLAs a solid piece meaning its not supposed to squish when you push down with your thumb during normal operation. If the HLAs cant keep up with how fast the valves are opening they will "squish" and when this happens your rocker arms will get tossed.
Ok, if you want to use a feeler gauge, here is how you do it....
Put the guide and any size shim you want on the cylinder that you want to measure. Bolt down the cams and make sure you torque them to spec. And measure the clearance on the guide side. Now say that the clearance was .006 then you want the clearance on the shim side to be .006 so go measure the clearance. Most likely your clearance will be off. Say it was .009 then you obviously need thicker shims because the clearance is too large. You want to decrease that gap by .003.
Now take that difference of .003 and multiply by 1.43 (rocker ratio) and it will give you .0043 so you need a shim that's thicker than the shim you have put in by .0043"
If you want to use the plate and dial tool (this is much more accurate) and I recommend this as it will be faster and easier. Follow this guide.
http://www.sr20forum.com/showt...=shim
you can get this tool from Matt form Importintelligence. Speak to him.