Rethinking the T60-1 Idea on my 500HP Ka24de

[uvamosk]

Hey fellow members... Just bought a 1991 Complete stock with no options 240sx With one rust spot the size of a 1/2 dollar. So I can get my engine from the Machine Shop this month. !!!!! Now for the turbo part.. I was thinking about buying a Gt35r and as much as I would love to 1200$ is just way too much for me to pay. So my question is.. Is the T60-1 Going to be good for my 500WHP mark. I know the T60-1 is kinda getting old but I was also looking at a BorG warner turbo but somone said that the S200 would not be able to feed the engine. Though I got a good deal on a T60-1 for 650$ brand new that would fit my engine build. Im just looking ofr oppions here.. So what do you guys think. Because Its kinda like this the money I can save in one place lets me put it some where else.. Gt35r is great but for 1200$ just to get full spool 500rpms before the T60-1 then I should just get the T60-1 and run a bigger intercooler.. lol <--- dont know if that bigger intercooler idea would work.. but that would save me 600$ to put into suspension.. and other places..

[Edub1]

In terms of throttle position & RPM, what do you have to do to spool a T60-1?

[Chezedik]

A T04b 60-1 can mate to a T3, so it isn't as bad as you would think if you are using a balanced assembly. I would say 3500-4500 in first, 2K in each subsequent gear, but spool isn't what it's all about, this is a drag setup. Although, not quite enough to reach your goal, since it peaks at about 495 at about 18psi, you may try the 62-1, or a straight T-61, but spool would really be bad there. A ball-bearing unit may be in the cards for decent spool.

[Edub1]

Is it safe to assume that turbos this big only spool up when you're beating the hell out of your motor?

[Chezedik]

If it is a straight T60-1 then yes, if it is a T3/T04b 60-1, then not as bad. But generally, you have to assume that the wheel is huge when it moves that kind of air. I assume the 60-1 refers to it using a T60-1 wheel in a T04b housing. So it would be a large wheel to make a hybrid out of, which is why I suggested balancing the entire assembly, to at least help the spool of the unit.

[uvamosk]

Thank you so much Chezedik your becoming my idol anyway... Im building the setup for Street/Drift... Its not going to be a Drag Race car.. have to be 1/4 in 10sec kinda setup its like crusing on the street beat up on a civic, or supra kinda car... :") hehe If that helps Im just thinking 4k spool isnt bad since its 600$ instead of the 1200$ just to get full spool by 3500rpms... is it me or ist kinda stupid 600$ for 500rpms... when i could use tha tmoney else where... " well i am poor so i guess it s stpuid to me... sorry typing bacd go to go lol...

[WDRacing]

I think he means a T60...but I'm not sure lol. I have a full frame TO4E with .81 AR exhaust housing and a 60-1 compressor and it spooled up to 20 psi by about 5 grand.

[uvamosk]

I would like to reach full spool by 4k, I will also be running up to 7k the stock redline.. Unless somone here thinks that upgradeing the stock valve train with better springs could Yeild a Push to the 8k redline If so then that would be Heaven.. If not then 7k will be the red line. I was quoted on the phone that a T60-1 would hit what I Need close to 500WHp but im starting to think that isnt true.. Also Is the BorgWarner turbo the S200 not a good turbo?

[uvamosk]

Sorry but this is a little off topic.. but Do you guys know if a Knock off BOV is something that Cool to use on a turbo setup.. Its job seems simple and so I wouldnt imagine that a company could screw it up that bad... I was looking at the ones on ebay for like 60$ ..

[Jookmasta]

i say t60-1. no point in spending that kind of money. especially since ur gonna be over the 450 mark. honestly, unless u are really stuck on the 500hp thing, im sure 450hp will still make u smile.

[uvamosk]

That was my point too Jookmasta. I got to thinking ... do I really need to pay 1200$ for a turbo that spools by 3500rpms.. when im not a Pro DragRacer... and couldnt that money be used on suspension and other things... I think 4k spool up and 450WHp Is still going to Strike Fear into people... on the street. So I have decided to go with the T60-1. Though i have 3 questions... 1: what are good trims to run with for 450 to 500WHP. 2: Do I meed 720cc injecters or larger. 3: What company can I trust to buy my turbo from.

If anyone else has any input I would be happy to hear it...

Thanks

[Chezedik]

Dude, check the marks on a T04b V, the difference between 6 and 10 PSI is 130HP, that is something I am grappling with now.

[uvamosk]

I cant find the map on it... But I saw it says 450 to 500 and the turbo is like 700$.. Anyon have a map for it i can look at also... Chezedik you thinking about running that ? ...

[Chezedik]

not the T-60-1, but the T04b V.

[uvamosk]

Hey, Thats what i ment the T04b v ? I mean do you have a map for it...also you think it would meet my needs...

[Tims_240]

hey, since im shooting for 500whp, i wanna share this e-mail that i got from atp turbo, a while back. i basically asked him a few questions about a few turbos, and he told me which one would be the best for 500whp on our KA 240sx

Hi Tim,

The GT2876R would not be good for the job. It's a 400HP on paper, but you have to wring it out pretty good and the small turbine wheel on it makes it not a good fit your your relatively large engine.

You're stuck between a GT3071R and GT3076R.

The GT3076R is the right turbo for the job (500WHP), but the GT3071R can get you 450HP but spool up so alsome for the turbo size, a lot of people end of making a compromise to enjoy the fatter power band. That's not to say that the GT3076R will spool up nicely on your engine, it's just that on that same engine the GT3071R will spool at least 600 rpms earlier than the GT3076R and makes for a wider power band when operating under 450HP. When going to 500WHP, the GT3076R is the only turbo for the job hands down.

Thanks!

ATP

hope that helped a little

[klattr1]

you talking about the t3 or t25/t28 exhaust side with the GT3076R?

all the numbers/abbreviations for Garrett turbos are getting ridiculous...but this one would do the trick for 500 whp:

http://www.atpturbo.com/Mercha...e=GRT

[Chezedik]

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/tu...2.gif

[Chezedik]

tops out at 420HP. You will likely want ball bearing for numbers as high as you want.http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/tu...2.gif

[uvamosk]

That turbo you linked Klattr1 is about what I need its perfect... But the price 1350$ is a little step for me ... LOL So if I lower my Goal down to 400 to 450hp what kinda turbo Could I go with... Because see.. If I put it down to 400HP or 450hp... Ill bolt on the old Giggle Gas for the rest... Get a wet kit and coax out the other 50hp or so... "? Its a Idea.. Which puts me back at your turbo Chezedik Would that spool by 4k? Because Im still not getting how to read these maps fully. I know how to plot the points and everything. Though I don't understand how to read.. For instance If 1krpm, 2krpm, 3krpm, 4krpm points are on the left side of the surge line does that mean at 4krpm it will spool up and be running? Is that what the surge Line indicates... the point the turbo starts to push air out... IE: when I get to the right of the surge line then im out of lag? Because I know running a turbo before the surge line is bad bad bad!!! I need to pull out the old Calc and work on your map you droped and see what I can come up with... Where is the cheapest place to get that turbo Chezedik? O and Im useing a T3/T4 flange header... ITs a cast iron... with 38mm waste gate...

[Chezedik]

No, the surge line indicates that at that particular PR, the compressor wheel is spinning so slow that it can be turned backwards. This is a problem because it is hard on a turbo. To indicate spool you use a turbine chart, I am afraid I don't have one. But spool would be similar to a T3, although a little slower since the wheels are different sized, and you are adding a little extra mass, it would hurt efficiency a little to. But still much better than the T3. The surge line doesn't indicate lag at all. I saw the ad for west-coast turbo selling them for $399. I built mine for $235.

[uvamosk]

T04B V .. umm for 399.. Is that a Garrett ? and you say west-coast turbo has them for 499$ I'll have to call them.. because that sounds grrreat.. I'll check into it. Is the GT3076 1200$ also.

[Edub1]

I have a genuine Garrett T3/T04E 50 trim I'm selling. It has a factory tag on it and a .68 A/R exhaust.

I'll take $400 shipped.

[Chezedik]

That turbo maxes at just before 400HP, that is why I am suggested one like mine. Westcoast sells it for 399, although many think it doesn't include Garrett internals. I made mine 235 with all genuine parts.

[uvamosk]

Made it? You swaped out the internals or put it together... Do you have it on your car now? Also I sent you a email...! I just want to hit 450ishWHP with full spool by around 4K and not spend over 1200$$$$ to do it...

[uvamosk]

LOL, OK OK here this has to be a joke.... Im looking at the T3/T40s right....so im looking around on google.. and I come across this guy selling his for 650$ because He couldn't buy the rest of the stuff he needed to TURBO his Acrua INTERGRA... !!! Ok the T60-1 Doesnt even hardly work on the 240sx and it has a 2.4L engine Who in their right mind runs a T60-1 on a 1.8L integra!!!!!
Modified by uvamosk at 7:06 PM 1/11/2006

[uvamosk]

I think I need some help understanding the turbo maps..... because the way i was reading them was when you pass the surge line that you where making boost.. Which also I was taking as that up till the surge like that was when you where not building boost... I had read the way to calculate out the numbers to plot.. so i get all that but im just not understanding how you determe Chocking, Surgeing... or makeing boost... or what... ... Also another possiablity here is that Im thinking of is Just running a 2stage Boost controller... !!! so in 1st gear I run say 10psi then in later gears run higher boost... I dont know if that helps with getting a better turbo match up or not but again when I was reading maps I saw in the T60-1 that I could run 8psi of boost and get pass the surge line faster than if i ran 20psi of boost... ?

Modified by uvamosk at 7:05 PM 1/11/2006
Modified by uvamosk at 7:28 PM 1/11/2006

[95_240sx]

For

LOL, OK OK here this has to be a joke.... Im looking at the T3/T40s right....so im looking around on google.. and I come across this guy selling his for 650$ because He couldn't buy the rest of the stuff he needed to TURBO his Acrua INTERGRA... !!! Ok the T60-1 Doesnt even hardly work on the 240sx and it has a 2.4L engine Who in their right mind runs a T60-1 on a 1.8L integra!!!!!

Modified by uvamosk at 7:06 PM 1/11/2006

For the same reason GT42R's work on honda motors - They can spin those to 10k+ rpm.

Just buy a GT35r and be done with it, youll never have to spend money on a turbo again.

Rick

[Chezedik]

Yes, I sourced out the compressor, and installed in on a Z31. I still need to weld up the WG port and take the shaft back out and get it balanced. Not necessary, but it will help spool. I also, still need to work out some other things. First will be to get a cheap ebay WG, and put TiAL guts in it. Like Tom Hanks said in some SNL skit, "...it's got same guts, Sony guts.".

[Iamjohnhayes]

I think I need some help understanding the turbo maps..... because the way i was reading them was when you pass the surge line that you where making boost.. Which also I was taking as that up till the surge like that was when you where not building boost... I had read the way to calculate out the numbers to plot.. so i get all that but im just not understanding how you determe Chocking, Surgeing... or makeing boost... or what... ... Also another possiablity here is that Im thinking of is Just running a 2stage Boost controller... !!! so in 1st gear I run say 10psi then in later gears run higher boost... I dont know if that helps with getting a better turbo match up or not but again when I was reading maps I saw in the T60-1 that I could run 8psi of boost and get pass the surge line faster than if i ran 20psi of boost... ?

Modified by uvamosk at 7:05 PM 1/11/2006

Modified by uvamosk at 7:28 PM 1/11/2006

Ok,

Anything to the left of the left most line of the graph is surging.

anything to the right of the of the last vertical line is where the turbo will choke.