Report: Iran plans to unveil defense project

[AZhitman]

^ THIS.

Ahmedinajadingdong is a Grade-A narcissistic attention whore, and it almost looks like he's trying to goad the US into a response so that he can look like "the victim", garnering sympathy from the rest of the Arab world.

I say as soon as Iran test-launches a missile, level his palace. Before he crawls out of the rubble, drop the nuclear plant as well.

Now is NOT a time for "diplomacy" (this Administration's euphemism for "sucking up").

[n00b240]

But North Korea can perform missle tests and nuclear tests and thats OK?? I say let Iran do what they want, just like North Korea, but should they try to launch a missle "attack" somewhere, then a response would be appropriate. Hell North Korea sank a ship, and we dont do a damn thing. If we try another "pre emptive" strike Iran will equal Iraq (IMO anyway.)

[IBCoupe]

So.... what became of this announcement? Anybody catch the news yesterday?

[AZhitman]

But North Korea can perform missle tests and nuclear tests and thats OK?? I say let Iran do what they want, just like North Korea, but should they try to launch a missle "attack" somewhere, then a response would be appropriate. Hell North Korea sank a ship, and we dont do a damn thing. If we try another "pre emptive" strike Iran will equal Iraq (IMO anyway.)

Not at all. I'm honestly more concerned with them than Iran. There are indications that, despite popular "groupthink", that there's actually several Middle Eastern factions who oppose such saber-rattling.

The only problem with your scenario is this: Once the launch has occurred, you're no longer being proactive.

The other problem is that Iran has been under clear directives to cease and desist from the international community, yet they proceed. The arrogance of our own POTUS pales in comparison to that of Ahmedinijad.

IB, everything I read stated that the fueling went along as planned.

[IBCoupe]

So, Iran planning to test-fire missiles, but there's no indication that they've got a warhead for them yet, right?

[AZhitman]

I think it's implied that no matter what they "load" it with (whether it be a conventional warhead or a "dirty" bomb), it's still concerning.

They also unveiled first long-range military drone manufactured in the country yesterday.

Call me hypersensitive, but see a pattern here?

[IBCoupe]

Yes, Iran has a rapidly developing military. But none of those developments is as game-changing as a nuclear-armed Iran.

[AZhitman]

Agreed. And as far as I'm concerned, as long as we learn from our experience with Iraq and ensure we and the UN do our due diligence, I have no problem with setting them back another 20 years on their programs.

While their leader's perception might be that they'll appear a "martyr" when the big bad US slaps their hand for reaching into the nukie jar, I think most of Iran's neighbors will SECRETLY breathe a collective sigh of relief that Ahmadenijad doesn't get to play with big boy toys and further destabilize the region.

Nutshell: Unless they're willing to let international inspectors monitor that facility, then it needs to come down.

[stebo0728]

Agreed. And as far as I'm concerned, as long as we learn from our experience with Iraq and ensure we and the UN do our due diligence, I have no problem with setting them back another 20 years on their programs.

While their leader's perception might be that they'll appear a "martyr" when the big bad US slaps their hand for reaching into the nukie jar, I think most of Iran's neighbors will SECRETLY breathe a collective sigh of relief that Ahmadenijad doesn't get to play with big boy toys and further destabilize the region.

Nutshell: Unless they're willing to let international inspectors monitor that facility, then it needs to come down.

Just a question ... do we let international inspectors monitor our nuclear endeavors? Perhaps we do, I dont know, and Im sure if we dont its only because no one ever asked, but to be sure we must hold ourselves to the same scrutiny we try to hold others to, at least in the international realm of political affairs. Im not trying to draw a parallel to ours and their programs, I am just pointing out that if we want to play the game that way, we need to be sure we are willing to play it that way also.

[AZhitman]

Agreed. And as far as I'm concerned, as long as we learn from our experience with Iraq and ensure we and the UN do our due diligence, I have no problem with setting them back another 20 years on their programs.

While their leader's perception might be that they'll appear a "martyr" when the big bad US slaps their hand for reaching into the nukie jar, I think most of Iran's neighbors will SECRETLY breathe a collective sigh of relief that Ahmadenijad doesn't get to play with big boy toys and further destabilize the region.

Nutshell: Unless they're willing to let international inspectors monitor that facility, then it needs to come down.

Just a question ... do we let international inspectors monitor our nuclear endeavors? Perhaps we do, I dont know, and Im sure if we dont its only because no one ever asked, but to be sure we must hold ourselves to the same scrutiny we try to hold others to, at least in the international realm of political affairs. Im not trying to draw a parallel to ours and their programs, I am just pointing out that if we want to play the game that way, we need to be sure we are willing to play it that way also.

I disagree. This is a "Do as I say, not as I do" thing. Arrogant, perhaps. But we've earned it.

While we voluntarily participate in treaties, we're not seen as a "rogue nation" (yet) in the international community.

Who's going to oversee our facilities? I mean, we have the NRC, which no other country has, but other than that, there's no need to monitor us for weapons-grade manufacturing, because we already HAVE nukes. We invented them.

[Omar]

Ahmedinajadingdong is a Grade-A narcissistic attention whore, and it almost looks like he's trying to goad the US into a response so that he can look like "the victim", garnering sympathy from the rest of the Arab world.

Majority of the Arab world do not like Iran. Why? Because Iran is a Shia'a country while the majority of the Middle East is Sunni.

[vikesfankevin1986]

But North Korea can perform missle tests and nuclear tests and thats OK?? I say let Iran do what they want, just like North Korea, but should they try to launch a missle "attack" somewhere, then a response would be appropriate. Hell North Korea sank a ship, and we dont do a damn thing. If we try another "pre emptive" strike Iran will equal Iraq (IMO anyway.)

North Korea does what they want because if we don't let them they will turn South Korea and our air base there into a f*** hell hole. I don't think Iran can actually attack any of our bases without f*** themselves over.
Oh but if Iran does fire on someone let it be Israel...Israel will light them up so bad.

[IBCoupe]

Iran, on the other hand, has consistently been in NON-COMPLIANCE and DISPUTE with the NPT.

In Iran's defense, as I'm sure they'd be quick to point out, you could easily substitute "Iran" with a certain neighbor of Iran's, notably a non-signatory to the NPT who has an ambiguous number of nuclear weapons.

[heliochrome85]

Iran, on the other hand, has consistently been in NON-COMPLIANCE and DISPUTE with the NPT.

In Iran's defense, as I'm sure they'd be quick to point out, you could easily substitute "Iran" with a certain neighbor of Iran's, notably a non-signatory to the NPT who has an ambiguous number of nuclear weapons.

a very fair point.

funny story, when most americans are sitting worrying about where we are going to find the money to keep their food stamps and medicaid flowing, we send 3 billion annually to israel.

a drop in the deficit bucket yes, but i wonder how that money may be better spent in the US? Border Security? Education? To pay for Tax Cuts?

[stebo0728]

To pay for Tax Cuts?

Thats an interesting notion ... that tax cuts have to PAID FOR? That speaks to the mentality of "all wealth belongs to the government", just as your take home pay is considered a "tax expenditure" ...

[IBCoupe]

The notion that taxes aren't a normal part of a modern society is silly. Maybe you don't like income taxes, but unless you're one of the few special Anarcho-Americans, you have to accept that taxes are a necessary part of the system.

So if you're willing to accept that, then you have to accept that eliminating taxes eliminates a revenue stream without eliminating a service. That has to be paid for. It's pretty much what the Right has been saying recently to firefighters, teachers, and the unemployed.

Neither side has a leg to stand on when crying about the national debt.

[stebo0728]

Of course taxes are a normal part of modern society, that is no where near the argument I was making. My point is that who actually owns the wealth? Do you own the wealth that you generate, or does the government own it, and simply allow you to keep a portion? If a revenue stream goes away, of course either the program it supported has to go away, or a replacement revenue source has to be found, but to place the label "PAID FOR" on an incintive that allows a person to keep more of THEIR wealth is a misnomer in my book.

[IBCoupe]

It is until you start to recognize it as part of the system.

[Encryptshun]

Of course taxes are a normal part of modern society, that is no where near the argument I was making. My point is that who actually owns the wealth? Do you own the wealth that you generate, or does the government own it, and simply allow you to keep a portion? If a revenue stream goes away, of course either the program it supported has to go away, or a replacement revenue source has to be found, but to place the label "PAID FOR" on an incintive that allows a person to keep more of THEIR wealth is a misnomer in my book.

This is a great topic, and it deserves its own thread. Go start one.

[stebo0728]

Of course taxes are a normal part of modern society, that is no where near the argument I was making. My point is that who actually owns the wealth? Do you own the wealth that you generate, or does the government own it, and simply allow you to keep a portion? If a revenue stream goes away, of course either the program it supported has to go away, or a replacement revenue source has to be found, but to place the label "PAID FOR" on an incintive that allows a person to keep more of THEIR wealth is a misnomer in my book.

This is a great topic, and it deserves its own thread. Go start one.

Point taken ... thread started ... sorry for the hijack