Replace CVT or get rid of car?

[jasonMz3]

I have a 2008 Nissan Rogue that needs the CVT replaced. I have over 165K miles on it, so it is out of warranty. I really don't want to put 3.5-4 grand into a car with that many miles on it, but given the high mileage, its probably worth more to me than I could get for it in its current condition.

Anyone have any idea on what I could get for my car in this condition? I'm sure a dealer would laugh at me if I tried to trade it in.

[kerrton]

Jason, I think you're the new winner of highest mileage Rogue, I can't believe you've got 165k miles in around 3 years! Welcome to the forum, I wish you would've joined us earlier!

This is a complicated question, for me personally it would depend highly on the condition of the other components of the car. If you've driven easy highway miles and been diligent with your maintenance and haven't otherwise abused it, I would expect the engine to be in great shape - a quality vehicle with excellent maintenance and a bit of luck can hit several hundred thousand miles, why not shoot for say 400k??! If you're not sure, maybe get a compression test done on the engine, if it's got wear issues they will show up with this simple/cheap test and that would weigh in on the decision. Also the radiator, water pump and entire coolant system should be in good shape if you've done coolant flushes at the correct times, if you have not done the maintenance then I'd worried about that as the next thing to go.

Do you have FWD or AWD? If AWD, I would wonder about the condition of other driveline components, transfer case, rear dif, etc.. I'd be more inclined to keep the car if it was FWD because there is far less expensive components to worry about as in an AWD - the FWD should run trouble-free far longer than AWD and the AWD components are very expensive to repair or replace when they do fail.

I'd recommend getting the other major components of the car assessed, or if you already have a good idea that everything else is in good shape and you like the vehicle I'd probably lean towards investing the $3500 bucks into the car. It's only 3 years old and the rule of thumb with vehicles is that if it's not worth anything to sell (i.e. resale value sucks), keep it and drive it as long as you can. $3500 is not a fun bill to pay, but you'll pay far more for a new vehicle of course, and with the high miles you put on your new vehicle will lose it's value very fast. In the long run with your high mileage you'll save a lot of money by keeping your vehicles for the long-term and fixing repairs as they come up.

There are no guarantees in life, but sometimes a bit of gamble can pay off! The alternative is a guaranteed huge bill for a new or newer vehicle and big losses as you wrack up the miles.

Please let us know what you decide and the ultimate fate of our highest mileage Rogue!

[jasonMz3]

Jason, I think you're the new winner of highest mileage Rogue, I can't believe you've got 165k miles in around 3 years! Welcome to the forum, I wish you would've joined us earlier!

Thanks for the quick reply. I actually joined 3 years ago, but just posted once or twice to complain about the bad gas mileage I was seeing. And I have to give the credit for all the miles to my wife, she has a 150 mile commute (round trip, all highway miles) 5 days a week to work.

This is a complicated question, for me personally it would depend highly on the condition of the other components of the car. If you've driven easy highway miles and been diligent with your maintenance and haven't otherwise abused it, I would expect the engine to be in great shape - a quality vehicle with excellent maintenance and a bit of luck can hit several hundred thousand miles, why not shoot for say 400k??! If you're not sure, maybe get a compression test done on the engine, if it's got wear issues they will show up with this simple/cheap test and that would weigh in on the decision. Also the radiator, water pump and entire coolant system should be in good shape if you've done coolant flushes at the correct times, if you have not done the maintenance then I'd worried about that as the next thing to go.

I must confess that I haven't been that diligent with the maintenance, so I am a little worried.

Do you have FWD or AWD? If AWD, I would wonder about the condition of other driveline components, transfer case, rear dif, etc.. I'd be more inclined to keep the car if it was FWD because there is far less expensive components to worry about as in an AWD - the FWD should run trouble-free far longer than AWD and the AWD components are very expensive to repair or replace when they do fail.

Its AWD, so one more strike against keeping it.

I'd recommend getting the other major components of the car assessed, or if you already have a good idea that everything else is in good shape and you like the vehicle I'd probably lean towards investing the $3500 bucks into the car. It's only 3 years old and the rule of thumb with vehicles is that if it's not worth anything to sell (i.e. resale value sucks), keep it and drive it as long as you can. $3500 is not a fun bill to pay, but you'll pay far more for a new vehicle of course, and with the high miles you put on your new vehicle will lose it's value very fast. In the long run with your high mileage you'll save a lot of money by keeping your vehicles for the long-term and fixing repairs as they come up.

There are no guarantees in life, but sometimes a bit of gamble can pay off! The alternative is a guaranteed huge bill for a new or newer vehicle and big losses as you wrack up the miles.

Please let us know what you decide and the ultimate fate of our highest mileage Rogue!

A few more things to add. Its been in two minor collisions that required significant body work, and has 3 noticeable dents. We are definitely upside down on the loan due to the miles and even more so with the CVT problem. However, my wife's long commute is nearly over (2 months or so), so we wouldn't rack up the miles on a new vehicle nearly as quickly.

decisions, decisions....

[kerrton]

How does the car seem to be running, still smooth and quiet? Did you gas mileage ever improve? Do you and your wife like the car, is it comfortable and fun to drive? Is this the size vehicle you want and need, or would a different size vehicle be better for you? If this vehicle works well for you, and the next thing you buy will be very similar, that is another point for keeping what you've got.

Overall it may still be a much better idea to keep the car and fix it. Body damage is another good reason to hold on to it as it drastically reduces resale value but it doesn't reduce the practical value to you as a daily driver and doesn't affect anything mechanically.

And the point about AWD, I wouldn't weight it too heavily, yes there are more expensive parts to fail than with a FWD but if you did mostly highway driving then the car was running in FWD mode most of the time anyway. If you get the driveline fluids flushed the AWD can be good to you for years to come, but in the end there is no way to know for sure, I just mentioned it as one thing to consider.

But like I said, the one thing that you do know for sure, if you ditch the car you will get next to nothing for it and I bet you'll get people interested provided the price is extremely low because a 3-year old crossover is still next to new, and $3500 to repair is not bad considering what new vehicles cost. The other guarantee is that another new or near-new vehicle won't be cheap.

Good luck, let us know what you decide......

[daytrippr]

I am interested in seeing exactly what is wrong with your CVT? The comments on the Murano CVTs seem to say that 165K miles is way too early for failure.

Thanks, Richard

[kerrton]

Unfortunately it's unlikely that he'll ever know the exact details of why and how that CVT failed.

The Dealer tech's only unbolt the old unit, ship it back to Japan and bolt on the new one and from what I've been told they don't get feedback on the damaged unit from the manufacturer. And I doubt the error code will be much help either. I would be interested to know the condition of the CVT fluid, that's probably the only thing that the tech can check before shipping the CVT back to the manufacturer.

But you've got me thinking, the CVT "valve body" is a seperte part number and seems to be a weak spot on the transmission. Some owners have reported that their CVT was acting up, and rather than replacing the entire CVT the dealer traced the source of the problem to the valve body - a replacement of this much cheaper part often seemed to solve the problem.

[jasonMz3]

So far I have taken the car to a Nissan Dealer and AAMCO. They both found the same thing, p0746, which is for the Pressure Control Solenoid, which is internal to the transmission. Nissan won't go inside the CVT to fix it, they just ship the bad one back to NISSAN lke you said.

AAMCO said they would open up the case and see if they could repair it themselves, but that could turn out to be a huge waste of money depending on what they do/don't find and the limited availability of parts for such a new transmission. They also recommended replacing it, but quoted almost $1000 more than the dealer. AAMCO said the fluid looked fine.

A called Nissan to see if there was any wiggle room in the extended CVT warranty (10 years / 120K) since the car is only 3 years old, but they pretty much said "tough luck."

[kerrton]

Interesting, thanks for posting that info.

That is such a shame to replace the entire transmission when the only problem is a failed solenoid. But, I'm very surprised to hear AAMCO offer to open that transmission up, I didn't think they'd be able to even get their hands on replacement parts if they wanted to.

Regardless, I wouldn't let them attempt this, there's a reason why Nissan doesn't let their own tech's work on these units. Apparently there have very high pre-load pressures required when assembling the CVT, and if you were to open one up those forces could be released and it could be dangerous to the tech and to the transmission. Also from what I understand it takes specialized tools to re-assemble a CVT, so even if they got it apart I don't think they'd have much luck getting it re-assembled. The botton line is, AAMCO has probably never done this work before, I doubt that they have a proper service manual for internal CVT so they'd be just using the "learn as you go" method, probably not a good plan.

This is information I've gotten over the years from various sources regarding the JATCO CVT manufacturing process, but really it's difficult to say how accurate these details are, and if some of these details are overstated such as the difficulty of re-building a CVT unit. However I still say the fact that Nissan won't let their own service tech's work on these units is a good indicator that it's not a good idea, if Nissan-trained tech's are not capable I don't think a regular transmission shop would fare any better.

Those transmission guys can work some pretty amazing magic on conventional auto trannys with all of it's complexities, but it is completely different with a CVT. I sure would love for that to change and have the CVT become a "serviceable part" by any Nissan or other transmission shop, I think it would really help alleviate some worries from current and prospective owners.

[jasonMz3]

Well, I called around to a few dealers, and one of them quoted $3400 including a complete flush of all the fluids and a loaner car.

Thanks for the help. I wanted to check here to make sure I wasn't making a stupid decision before plunking down that kind of cash.

[kerrton]

Sounds pretty reasonable all things considered, flushing all the fluids including rear differential and transfer case can get pricey so the actual CVT replacement is right around $3000. I had my CVT replaced in 2008 shortly after initial purchase due to a rattling defect, and the number on the invoice was close to $5000 so at least the cost of replacements seems to be coming down.

Good luck, I think you're making the right decision based on the available information.

[axel10]

What about a used CVT? I would imagine that there are a few out there in the wreckers. Is there any reason why one would not want to acquire a used one and install it? Just wondering.

[kerrton]

Good idea, I never thought of it even though that is normally one of the first things to consider in situations like these!

You might even be able to expand your search to include certain model years of Altima 2.5 for FWD vehicles, the engine is identical and I believe the CVT part numbers are the same and compatible but this would require a little bit of checking to cofirm before moving forward. Although in this case an AWD unit would be required.

[philipa_240sx]

Jason Mz3,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Nissan cannot service much inside the transmission besides replacing the valve body assembly. I suspect outside service shops couldn't do much more.

Good luck!

[philipa_240sx]

You might even be able to expand your search to include certain model years of Altima 2.5, the engine is identical and I believe the CVT part numbers are the same and compatible but this would require a little bit of checking to cofirm before moving forward.

The AWD CVT is unique to the Rogue as it contains an output shaft and transfer case for the AWD. The Altima or Sentra CVT wouldn't work in this application.

Here is a handy search engine for used car parts... http://car-part.com/

The 'tow package' is basically any Rogue with manual/paddle shifters (Premium Pcakage). The Cali/Fed option is for emissions. I see many transmissions listed, some under 1K. So long as the fluid is clean/clear you should have a decent unit.

[AZhitman]

Bummer, I'll have a 25K mile CVT available for sale here in a few weeks.

[kerrton]

That is a great link Philip, thanks a lot.

Very interesting when searching for 2008 CVT trannies, there are two groups for the Rogue, models up to and including April, 2008 and May, 2008 and beyond. There is another grouping apparent when searching for 2009 CVT, one ending Sept, 2008 and the next starting Oct, 2008. For 2010 and later searches they do not have these sub-groupings, I'm guessing this means the CVT part number hasn't changed since Oct, 2008, but of course this is just a guess. I think this indicates that a change was made to the CVT starting in May, 2008, and again in Oct, 2008, but I could be wrong.

These dates are interesting to me because I had CVT trouble July, 2008. I was told to wait while Nissan worked on a fix, and by December, 2008 I was told that Nissan had developed a "counter-measure CVT" to address the rattling problem I was experiencing, and they went ahead and installed the "new design" in Dec/08. Others who had the CVT replaced didn't get this same info so it was never a sure thing (i.e. did Nissan improve the CVT design slightly, or not) but the part dates on Philip's web site seems to support what I was told back in 2008.

Sorry to get a little off topic, but I find this pretty interesting....my "new" CVT has been running great for almost 3 years now, by the way.

[kerrton]

Jason, any update? Did you replace the CVT? If so how are things running?

[philipa_240sx]

Bummer, I'll have a 25K mile CVT available for sale here in a few weeks.

FYI:

The HR motors use the smaller RE0F08B.
The QR & MR motors use the RE0F10A with a higher torque capacity.

[AZhitman]

Interesting.

So, the Cube would have come with the 10A, correct?

[philipa_240sx]

Interesting.

So, the Cube would have come with the 10A, correct?

My mistake Greg....

I re-checked the Cube FSM, the MR18 is paired with the RE0F08B CVT.

The MR20DE and QR25DE is paired with the RE0F10A as per the B16 Sentra FSM.