Rehabbing 90 Q Suspension
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brucepelletier
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 12:00 pm
Rehabbing 90 Q Suspension
I'm getting ready to have the suspension rehabbed on my 90 Q. So far I'm listing new shocks (with new dust boots, etc) all around (stock black or Tokiko blues I haven't decided yet), new front upper links and new front sway bar end links. Tension rods already replaced within the last year. The shocks and sway bar end links are original and I replaced the original upper links about 45,000 miles ago. I also plan to have the brakes reworked all around as necessary and the system flushed top to bottom with new higher temp brake fluid. Any other suspension work I should do or parts I should specify? Thanks for all replys.
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brucepelletier
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 12:00 pm
I am also in the process of rehabing the suspension on my 96q with 101000 miles,Tokiko blues on backorder for almost 60 days now,dealer just replaced upper links for the second time and also replaced 2 parts that I am not familiar with-center link,part number 5459066u26estension-$138.67,and king pin 4002260u5pin-$27.68-both on one side of front end.anyone know what these parts do and are they normal wear items at my miles?should they have been replaced in pairs?
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brucepelletier
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 12:00 pm
If you're looking to do your shocks, I would suggest replacing the compressed rubber components. And if the dust boots are cracked definitely do them too. Check out Scottsdale for package deals on some of this stuff. And you'll probably need new shock spacers between the body and mounting insulators.Qship96, the knuckle extension is the link below and attaching to the upper link. It sits on and rotates about the kingpin via 2 bearings. I didn't think either of them wore out, though apparently Dennis replaced his (starting at 120k). If anything, I would expect the bearings or the seals would need to be replaced. Did they give you any reasons why they replaced these components? Perhaps they were bent?
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Q45tech
- Moderator
- Posts: 14296
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 3:19 am
- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
When you can move the wheel left and right top/bottom in and out , it will be the wheel bearings.Left and right only no top/bottom motion it will the the tie rods end or inners or the rack.No left/right motion just top/bottom in out motion it will be upper links/lower arm and or the kingpin assembly.
Kind of a process of elimination.The problem is the multiplication effect on the wheel>tire as only 0.006" from my kingpin and king pin bearings translated to 0.1" at the tire edge.
The reason they changed the kingpin mount was that the kingpin is harder than its tapered mount so it wears the seat away and just a new kingpin may still allow excess slop. I was lucky my mount was not damaged enough just the kingpin......as these parts are only $80.
On the drivers side the mounting arm for upper part of king pin was bent allowing excess negative camber [-0.3 degrees] and the pin had worn the bearing seat.
The problem is once vibration starts or tires rotors are driven on vibrating it starts to wear rubber components, once the rubber is worn, wear may proceed to the kingpin and bearings.
Just like shocks the wear is small but steady and owners get use to the feeeling. Tech's never take a car on the highway at speed for an hour [you pay] so they don't feel all the problems ina 5 minute around the block test drive..........plus many never ride in a perfect 90-93 so they have no comparison.
Unfortunately rides like new means all new parts and the ones you skimp on are sure to be the culprits.
It costs about 66% more to R&R a LS400 completely changing the same type parts..........for once Q design pays off but the LS parts last longer by at least a third to 50% so it is a wash on 200-250,000 miles.
If a $50,000 car really cost $35,000 to make and it has depreciated to $5,000, is the $30,000 difference what you would really have to spend to make it like new again. Plus of course the routine maintenance and wear items which can equal $15,000 in 200,000 miles.
The problem is the whole car was assembled and painted in less 30 hours..............yet to change things piecewise a few parts at a time will end up taking 100 hours over 10 years. And the 100% dealer mark up in parts means you pay more than double what the factory paid plus inflation.........close to triple.
My quess is you would spend $45-50,000 if you used all brand new from the dealer.........even retail Junkyard prices to the public are only 50% of new prices.
When I changed my rear subframe and differential [with a junkyard takeout] I ordered the whole rear junk subframe [from a 95Q] and all the parts............sure it cost an extra $500 but but I got $1500 in extra parts [essentially free] to mix and match during the reassembly with my $500 new subframe.
Kind of a process of elimination.The problem is the multiplication effect on the wheel>tire as only 0.006" from my kingpin and king pin bearings translated to 0.1" at the tire edge.
The reason they changed the kingpin mount was that the kingpin is harder than its tapered mount so it wears the seat away and just a new kingpin may still allow excess slop. I was lucky my mount was not damaged enough just the kingpin......as these parts are only $80.
On the drivers side the mounting arm for upper part of king pin was bent allowing excess negative camber [-0.3 degrees] and the pin had worn the bearing seat.
The problem is once vibration starts or tires rotors are driven on vibrating it starts to wear rubber components, once the rubber is worn, wear may proceed to the kingpin and bearings.
Just like shocks the wear is small but steady and owners get use to the feeeling. Tech's never take a car on the highway at speed for an hour [you pay] so they don't feel all the problems ina 5 minute around the block test drive..........plus many never ride in a perfect 90-93 so they have no comparison.
Unfortunately rides like new means all new parts and the ones you skimp on are sure to be the culprits.
It costs about 66% more to R&R a LS400 completely changing the same type parts..........for once Q design pays off but the LS parts last longer by at least a third to 50% so it is a wash on 200-250,000 miles.
If a $50,000 car really cost $35,000 to make and it has depreciated to $5,000, is the $30,000 difference what you would really have to spend to make it like new again. Plus of course the routine maintenance and wear items which can equal $15,000 in 200,000 miles.
The problem is the whole car was assembled and painted in less 30 hours..............yet to change things piecewise a few parts at a time will end up taking 100 hours over 10 years. And the 100% dealer mark up in parts means you pay more than double what the factory paid plus inflation.........close to triple.
My quess is you would spend $45-50,000 if you used all brand new from the dealer.........even retail Junkyard prices to the public are only 50% of new prices.
When I changed my rear subframe and differential [with a junkyard takeout] I ordered the whole rear junk subframe [from a 95Q] and all the parts............sure it cost an extra $500 but but I got $1500 in extra parts [essentially free] to mix and match during the reassembly with my $500 new subframe.
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Q45tech
- Moderator
- Posts: 14296
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 3:19 am
- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
The problem is a low mile 94Q wreck may have set out exposed and 8 year old parts are 8 year old parts even if they have few miles on them.Rubber sure lasts a lot longer sealed in plastic in a temperature controlled parts warehouse.
The rear suspension arms seem to hold up as little turning stress but USED: motor mounts , transmission mounts upper links, tension rods diff mounts, driveshafts, rear subframe mounts, exhaust hangers are no no's!
When the change labor exceeds the the used parts cost you are almost always better off with brand new!
You have to have a friend like Scottsdale or Lisle to survive the rebuild blues.
Can you imagine what Classic Car rebuilders go thru and how they spend $50-$100,000 to R&R a car that cost $5,000 brand new!
The rear suspension arms seem to hold up as little turning stress but USED: motor mounts , transmission mounts upper links, tension rods diff mounts, driveshafts, rear subframe mounts, exhaust hangers are no no's!
When the change labor exceeds the the used parts cost you are almost always better off with brand new!
You have to have a friend like Scottsdale or Lisle to survive the rebuild blues.
Can you imagine what Classic Car rebuilders go thru and how they spend $50-$100,000 to R&R a car that cost $5,000 brand new!
Last summer I replaced the tie rod ends, rack bushings, upper links, transmission mount and probably a few other things I can't even remember. The only part I have left to install is a front wheel bearing. These components make a BIG difference in front end stability and steering preciseness. Even doing 75mph and rocking the steering wheel ever so slightly elicits slight changes in direction whereas before, that movement would have been lost in free play. TIGHT!
I wonder how it will feel when I change the wheel bearing?... This is the drivers side and has contributed to my tire getting eaten on the inside edge fairly quickly. (Alignment is okay) With 167K on my 90', I suppose the kingpins are probably worn too.
Taking a drive to Miami from ATL tomorrow. I'm going to put two Chevron-Techron injector cleaners in my first tankful of gas since I haven't done that in a while. Recently changed the oil and flushed the radiator. Toytoa red and distilled water...
New 94' style mats... I removed both front seats and greased the tracks....shampooed the carpet with blue coral and sprayed on a can of Scotch Guard fabric protector...The interior is like new! ahhh....The Q loves long distance rides. NYC is next (again).
...Drew...
I wonder how it will feel when I change the wheel bearing?... This is the drivers side and has contributed to my tire getting eaten on the inside edge fairly quickly. (Alignment is okay) With 167K on my 90', I suppose the kingpins are probably worn too.
Taking a drive to Miami from ATL tomorrow. I'm going to put two Chevron-Techron injector cleaners in my first tankful of gas since I haven't done that in a while. Recently changed the oil and flushed the radiator. Toytoa red and distilled water...
New 94' style mats... I removed both front seats and greased the tracks....shampooed the carpet with blue coral and sprayed on a can of Scotch Guard fabric protector...The interior is like new! ahhh....The Q loves long distance rides. NYC is next (again).
...Drew...
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brucepelletier
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 12:00 pm
Thanks, Fred. Good to see you, too. It took me awhile to get used to this new format. Both more and less flexible than the yahoo site. I visit both.
palmerwmd wrote:Hi Bruce..!
I remember you from the old yahoosite.We been hanging out here for a while now... good to "see" you here too.
Fred...:wavey
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Q45tech
- Moderator
- Posts: 14296
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 3:19 am
- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Just remember to drop 25 cents in the kitty per mile driven to add to the R&R reserve. In addition to the 7.5 cents per mile the gasoline costs.
The government 33 cents a mile is not designed to make car payments or buy insurance..........just the amount necessary to keep the car functioning.
The cars odometer should be wirelessly coupled to your ATM so every mile moves 33 cents from your checking account to the cars saving expense account. Then you would only have to worry about the FIXED payments: loan, insurance, tag, and property tax .
I don't see how car rental companies stay in business now [most are bankrupt or on the way] with daily rates.........when they made money back in the 60s-70s they charged $11 and 11 cents per mile ......today that would be $42 and 42 cents per mile [gas included]! They are losing 15-20 cents per mile driven above say 25 miles per day.
The government 33 cents a mile is not designed to make car payments or buy insurance..........just the amount necessary to keep the car functioning.
The cars odometer should be wirelessly coupled to your ATM so every mile moves 33 cents from your checking account to the cars saving expense account. Then you would only have to worry about the FIXED payments: loan, insurance, tag, and property tax .
I don't see how car rental companies stay in business now [most are bankrupt or on the way] with daily rates.........when they made money back in the 60s-70s they charged $11 and 11 cents per mile ......today that would be $42 and 42 cents per mile [gas included]! They are losing 15-20 cents per mile driven above say 25 miles per day.
"remember to drop 25 cents in the kitty per mile driven to add to the R&R reserve. In addition to the 7.5 cents per mile the gasoline costs."
You're right about that... It's actually cheaper for me to fly to Miami or NY when considering just gas and toll alone. Figure in the time lost driving, wear and tear on the vehicle, lost rubber on the tires and the need for an oil change soon after returning.... the $60-75 (one way) airfares are more than worth it. My only reason for driving is the fact that I'll have my kids with me plus the need for a car when I get there.
...Drew...
You're right about that... It's actually cheaper for me to fly to Miami or NY when considering just gas and toll alone. Figure in the time lost driving, wear and tear on the vehicle, lost rubber on the tires and the need for an oil change soon after returning.... the $60-75 (one way) airfares are more than worth it. My only reason for driving is the fact that I'll have my kids with me plus the need for a car when I get there.
...Drew...
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brucepelletier
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 12:00 pm
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DrewQ45 "]Last summer I replaced the tie rod ends, rack bushings, upper links, transmission mount and probably a few other things I can't even remember. The only part I have left to install is a front wheel bearing. These components make a BIG difference in front end stability and steering preciseness. Even doing 75mph and rocking the steering wheel ever so slightly elicits slight changes in direction whereas before, that movement would have been lost in free play. TIGHT!
Are there any tricks to be aware of in this work? I seem to remember Q45tech writing about adjusting the sway bar end links with washers and being sure the tie end rods are set correctly. It helps to be able to talk to the service writer and tech with some knowledge.
Are there any tricks to be aware of in this work? I seem to remember Q45tech writing about adjusting the sway bar end links with washers and being sure the tie end rods are set correctly. It helps to be able to talk to the service writer and tech with some knowledge.