Red top or Black top???

[47ronin]

I know there are differences but is there a better choice between the two? I see more things for the s13 vs the s14.

[duffman1278]

Blacktop = NewerRedtop = Older

Think of it as this. In the end though they do the SAME THING! and they both have the same torque and hp. Unless you start getting into s14 and s15 SR's

Redtop=



Blacktop=

[j1rm]

black top has cooling lines on the cylinder head, red top doesnt

[PyR0NiAk]

I'm assuming you mean the fins... They aren't actually for cooling.. There are entire articles on it... Nice try though

[the converted]

The fins are also on some late model red tops. I personally have one of them. If your looking for big numbers, your probably looking at replacing a lot of parts anyway, so the additional money for the blacktop might not be worth it. If your looking for plug and play, spend more for a newer engine and enjoy it.

[PyR0NiAk]

The fins are also on some late model red tops. I personally have one of them. If your looking for big numbers, your probably looking at replacing a lot of parts anyway, so the additional money for the blacktop might not be worth it. If your looking for plug and play, spend more for a newer engine and enjoy it.

Very well put. Also, a lot of places anymore, only charge $100 more for a blacktop over a redtop.

[Steady_One_S13]

IMO, the red top Sr20 is the easiest to work with. Parts are relatively easy to find. Not much of a difference in horsepower and performance.

[47ronin]

Yeah Steady I think you are right on that one, kinda weird seeing as there pretty much the same engine but yet one has more available parts then the other. Now the Blacktop motor has Vtc or variable intake timing is this a better choice for a motor or not. Is there any pro/cons?

[the converted]

Ok here are the basic flavors of sr20det's

s13 redtop that you all know and love

s13 blacktop has s14 pistons and other bottom end parts, but has the same top end as an s13 redtop and all parts are interchangeable between the two.

s14 blacktop has a notch in the back, vtc, and different intake ports. The intake change and vtc were an effort to lower emissions and improve low end torque

s15 blacktop is similar to the s14 with a 6 speed transmission and upgraded turbo.

If you are planing on swapping cams or upgrading the turbo, you pretty much shouldn't buy an s14 or s15. The s13 blacktops are newer than the redtops, so it all comes down to what you really want to do with it.

I tore my engine apart to rebuild it the second I had it, so redtop was fine with me.

[PyR0NiAk]

Yeah Steady I think you are right on that one, kinda weird seeing as there pretty much the same engine but yet one has more available parts then the other. Now the Blacktop motor has Vtc or variable intake timing is this a better choice for a motor or not. Is there any pro/cons?

You're comparing the S13 motor to the S14 motor...

When you say redtop or blacktop, that's usually used to refer to an S13 and just differentiate which model. The S14 is typically called a notchtop.

[47ronin]

Ok cool man thanks for the info. So I guess it comes down to price when I buy the engine, seeing that there the same engine pretty much with some differences. I guess redtop it is then cause im broke haha. Thanks guys

[ProjectGarage]

Money is not an issue

I guess redtop it is then cause im broke haha. Thanks guys

lol

[PyR0NiAk]

Ok cool man thanks for the info. So I guess it comes down to price when I buy the engine, seeing that there the same engine pretty much with some differences. I guess redtop it is then cause im broke haha. Thanks guys

If you are too broke to spend an extra $100 for a blacktop, you're going to have a lot of issues doing the install. There's a lot of small s*** that doesn't get factored in but ends up costing $100s of dollars.

[Wretched]

So, man, which is it...are you broke or abundantly wealthy. And why do you feel the need to lie in order to impress people on the interwebz?

Anyway, all the info you'll ever want on this subject can be found just a few threads down from this one.

And yeah, I typically allow for $300-400 of unexpected expenses when doing this swap.




Modified by Wretched at 6:12 AM 10/11/2009

[PyR0NiAk]

you replied to the wrong person...

[ProjectGarage]

If you are too broke to spend an extra $100 for a blacktop, you're going to have a lot of issues doing the install. There's a lot of small s*** that doesn't get factored in but ends up costing $100s of dollars.

Agreed, Basically if youre doing an SR swap and are not balls deep with your credit card(s) maxxed out and its still not done because you want this and that then you are not doing it right. I would know ive spent around $4500 and im no where near where i want to be yet.

[PyR0NiAk]

Agreed, Basically if youre doing an SR swap and are not balls deep with your credit card(s) maxxed out and its still not done because you want this and that then you are not doing it right. I would know ive spent around $4500 and im no where near where i want to be yet.

lmao... I put together a part's list for a nico sponsor, and with a huge discount... I'm still looking at well over 5k.... Keep in mind.. this is just in upgrades... the Motor is already in the car.. lol

[j1rm]

... why not just do KA24DE-T. Bigger displacement and waaay cheaper to buy and replace parts on.

[j1rm]

I'm assuming you mean the fins... They aren't actually for cooling.. There are entire articles on it... Nice try though

Articles? So whats the purpose for them? Im sure i read a few years back on a Superstreet mag that they were intended for better air flow to the cylinder head, cooling it

.... but i could be wrong......... or could i?

[the converted]

Super street has a lot of half thought out science in it. The increase in cooling would be minimal and only effective on the timing area of the engine. What they are actually there for, I have no clue, but perhaps an easy way of telling a slightly updated head from the older version? I would love to read the articles in question and know for sure.

[47ronin]

I'm broke for now but I've got money coming in soon.

[PyR0NiAk]

... why not just do KA24DE-T. Bigger displacement and waaay cheaper to buy and replace parts on.

It's only cheaper for replacement OEM parts... Considering almost every part of my build consists of switching to aftermarket, the KA no longer provides this advantage. Plus, I've seen numerous reports of 400+whp on a stock bottom end. You usually see people completely rebuilding the bottem end of a KA once they reach anything over 300whp. Considering my goal is around 425-450whp, the SR was my choice. Besides, it's a toy. The motorswap was a good project for me and my grandfather.

Also, if I wanted displacement, I would've done an LS-1 swap.

[j1rm]

very kool, got it.

[ProjectGarage]

lmao... I put together a part's list for a nico sponsor, and with a huge discount... I'm still looking at well over 5k.... Keep in mind.. this is just in upgrades... the Motor is already in the car.. lol

Exactly, At least with the KA there are only a hand full of parts so you know you made the correct decision when you bought it. With the SR its like you have to research all kinds of parts that do the exact same thing just to see who had the best luck with which one.

The KA does not have as many options, it may be because its a better platform from the start or it just hasnt been purpose built for as long as the SR has, however i do see new awesome KA parts come out which almost makes me wish i still had that bad boy

However the SR is going to be worth it, Its just a lot more money because there are a lot more parts available.