red light camera ticket

[Hussain]

Modified by Hussain at 12:20 PM 7/1/2008

[Serkle K]

Hey man, good luck on it! From what you've posted, you might have a chance! (at least the 1st point, point #2 is a bit of a stretch, lol) I agree with your position, especially anything to make sure it doesn't affect your insurance!

[LongBeachCoupe]

if they told you the location hussain you wouldnt have went thru it, and they wouldnt have your money!

They just put 30 of them on long island!

If state law says it needs to be marked, and it isnt, get a camera out and document it... they may put a sign on it tomorrow!

[Hussain]

the funny thing is that there is a sign BUT california law mandates that it can only be 1 of 3 (or maybe its 4?) different signs and ALL the signs they can have only show a regular traffic light and at the bottom it says photo enforced sooooo technically they don't inform you about cameras taking pics for turns lol it implys it i guess (well for left turns, not really for right turns). but then again the law is that you must have proof that shows someone is guilty without a doubt and going by that logic, vaguely implying that you might get a ticket is way different then saying there are cameras for turns also.

ya the 2nd argument is sort of a stretch lol my goal is to just throw a bunch of facts at the judge and have him get tired of me and just say what ever, case dismissed lol

[racingtiger03]

we have good brakes right??.. Something similar to this happened to me on my motorcycle. Same deal, I didnt know right turns were enforced. It was night however, and I saw the camera flash. After that I just hammered the brakes and came to a complete stop, then came the burst shots, that would have shown me driving off, but instead showed me sitting at the intersection . never got the ticket, but later that night I removed the plates from the bike and gave them something to really look at lol. All those are anyway are expensive pictures. They dont go on your driving record at all, just another means of revenue for the city/state. (around here at least that is the case) you dont wanna know how many of the speed cams I buzzed through when I still had the temp plates on the alti! LOL

[PHENOMenalVinyl]

u should ttry that stuff they put on ur plate...its a spray. Its on youtube look up redlight tickets. I saw it on there and these news reporters tested it to see wat the best solution was, and the spray was...this would work for further problems so u dont gotta worry

[racingtiger03]

that stuff only works when the flash is enabled. It will save you at night, but not in the day. Its a clear metallic spray and nothing more, when the flash hits it they just get a big white blur back in the camera.

[JAFO]

The actual code as written states:

(1) Identifies the system by signs that clearly indicate the system's presence and are visible to traffic approaching from all directions, OR posts signs at all major entrances to the city, including, at a minimum, freeways, bridges, and state highway routes

You may want to check the "major" entrances to the city for the correct signage. According to the code, this would be acceptible as well.

Another thing to keep in mind is the number of times you use that intersection. If it is close to your residence, don't expect any lenience as you should have been aware of it's existance for awhile now.

I have gone to court to fight a ticket before and there was a gentleman there who attempted to fight a similar charge. Basically, he did not make a complete stop at a stop sign that was right in his neighborhood. He claimed that the actual sign was covered by an adjacent tree (which it was as he had pictures of the obscured sign), however there was still a limit line and the word "STOP" painted on the street. Add that to the fact that the judge asked him how long he had been a resident at this current address (to which he replied that he had been there a long time, 20+ years, I don't quite recall). The judge then asked how long that Stop sign had been there, which was 15 or so years. Given the fact that the gentleman had lived in the area for 15 years while that stop sign was there, it was decided that he would have known about it beyond a reasonable doubt. Plus the fact that the limit line and STOP were painted on the street gave him no credible defense.

That day, I watched about 20 people before me all come into court with their arguments and all 20 of them were dismissed. I was the only one who "won" their argument (I didn't fight that I was guilty of running that red light, I just objected to the $384.00 the City was trying to charge me for it. I thought it egregious for the offense and the judge sided with me. I ended up paying about $80 bucks for it. Anyway, there is a camera and a sign on that intersection now stating the minimum fine and that it is camera enforced).

ANYWAY, if you are to go to court, I can't stress the following enough:

1. Dress properly. At the very least, wear a long sleeve button shirt, slacks and NO SNEAKERS! I couldn't tell you how many people were there in sweat pants and Raider jerseys and T-shirts. They just look like they don't give a **** and are thusly treated that way.

2. Address the judge as "your honor" or "judge" or "sir/ma'am". The answer to every question or the start of every statement should include one of these three (e.g. "Yes, your honor." or "Your honor, on the date in question...").

3. Do your research. You did well in pulling up the law, but it does state that a sign must be placed at the intersection OR at major entrances to the city. Make sure that there isn't a sign stating cameras are in effect at highway entrances. If there isn't one posted at an entrance close to where your infraction takes place, you may have a case ("Your honor, I understand the code states that a sign may be posted at major entrances to the city, however the closest sign to my residence is at an intersection 7 miles away from me. I find this to be unfair.").

3. Whatever you do, don't "throw a bunch of facts at the judge and have him get tired of me and just say what ever, case dismissed lol". This will not work in your favor. As a matter of fact, it will work against you. A judge's time is valuable. If he sees you throwing a bunch of Constitutional bull**** his way, he'll just rule against you for wasting his time. You have a pretty solid case with the vehicle code item, just stick with that and investigate the freeway entrances a bit more.

Good luck!

[LongBeachCoupe]

egregious

Foul language will not be tolerated.

[Hussain]

thanks. the intersection where i got the ticket from his like 1-2 miles away from my house BUT the cameras have been there for less then 6 months (like 3 or 4). plus when i was looking at ways to fight it i came across this site

http://www.highwayrobbery.net/

and it shows what type of signs can be posted but not one sign says anything about giving tickets for right turns, they only show a traffic light for people going straights and it says "photo enforced"

[Cali 2 Balti G]

#1 - My understanding from living in NY, OH and MD is that turning on red is treated like a stop sign. You must come to a complete stop (unless there is a sign permitting you to make a right without stopping if there is no traffic). What you did sounds like a rolling stop at a stop sign - which is usually illegal. Depending on the particular law in your state - your action may be illegal.

Now the fact that it got documented on camera - I'm not sure how the defense about not being notified of the camera - negates you doing the illegal move. What are your states regs regarding right turns on red.

#2 - You've got to be kidding - your argument might be valid if there was some group of people that only make right turns - maybe ups might have a case - since they change their routing system to emphasize right turns over left turns.

I could see it being plausible - say if the right turn you made only leads to a community that is predominantly ............ And all the other communities at the other three streets are predominanlty.............. - then you might have an argument.

If you use this as a defense - be sure to let us know the outcome - hopefully you will get a judge - that knows something about REAL discrimination.

[quick_shift]

thanks. the intersection where i got the ticket from his like 1-2 miles away from my house BUT the cameras have been there for less then 6 months (like 3 or 4). plus when i was looking at ways to fight it i came across this site

http://www.highwayrobbery.net/

and it shows what type of signs can be posted but not one sign says anything about giving tickets for right turns, they only show a traffic light for people going straights and it says "photo enforced"

I think both are a stretch.

The sign that is posted shows that there are cameras at the light, they don't have to tell you which way they are pointed.

Good luck with it. At least with a camera ticket it is just a fine, I got pulled over in PA for not making a complete stop at a stop sign, got a ticket and it is 3 points on the license. Fought it and lost, had pictures and everything.

[quick_shift]

go back and read that site some more, more specifically this...

http://www.highwayrobbery.net/...s.htm look for the "Signs for Right Turns?" section

[maxentropy]

They took a picture of you making an "illegal" right turn, so take a picture of the money you "owe" them and send it along in the mail.

[JAFO]

They took a picture of you making an "illegal" right turn, so take a picture of the money you "owe" them and send it along in the mail.

Yes, yes, and then the police department will send back a picture of handcuffs...we've all seen that email years ago.

The worst part about this whole thing is that the OP admitted to not stopping and thus making an illegal right hand turn.

[Hussain]

At least with a camera ticket it is just a fine.

really? i thought you get a point for it. that's the main reason why i was worried about it. if i don't get a ticket i'm not worried. ill just say i'm a full time college student and am unemployed (which is true) and just say i want to do community service and just do community service at my mosque which isn't hard. by the time i actually go to court for it and if i'm found guilty (very rare for anyone to win) it'll be ramadon (the Muslim holly month) and ill just like serve people food at the mosque lol

[quick_shift]

maybe you do get points too, i thought i remember someone saying these are just ways for them to get more revenue and you usually didnt get points, ill have to look it up i guess

[sammyboy]

My friend just got one of those tickets and he completely blew the light. I was told that it's just a $50 fine(in NY)bc they can't give you points because they don't know who was driving the car. They'll just said the ticket it to whoever the car is registered under. In LI you can make a turn on red as long as you make a full stop