Recent rental experience- Do they ever check under the hood?

[lne937s]

I recently rented a 2013 Altima at JFK and had to post about my experience. The new Altima is basically my go-to car when I rent. It has useable headroom and good visibility (unlike cars like the Fusion). Although it is no sports car, it has a smooth ride on the highway and can accelerate and corner faster than my wife will tolerate from the passenger seat. And (although I wish I had more control) I actually prefer the way the CVT works in the car to an automatic. And I have been impressed by the fuel economy in the past... basically I have rented a few and know how they should operate in a variety of conditions.

But my recent rental car was different. Its 28k miles had been rough on this car, with a ding, scratch, chip or dent on every body panel. Upon getting in, it was obvious that someone had been smoking in it. After driving it for a while, I noticed another funny smell, an odd vibration, and, when I topped off the gas, noticed that the fuel economy was lower than what I usually get. So I opened the hood to see what was going on.

The oil was low, the coolant reservoir was basically empty, the washer fluid was empty... but that wasn't all I found. Someone had stuffed food under the hood on the passenger side, next to where the car takes in air for the heater/AC. Although it had been there for a while, I could clearly see some kind of greasy meat and potato skin. And when I opened the air cleaner (the filter looked like it had never been changed), there was more of the food jammed into the airbox. I'm surprised I didn't find a rodent in there eating it.

So I returned the car, pointed out the issues and asked them when they check under the hood. Basically, they just check the engine when the "service engine" idiot light comes on. This leads me to a few questions:

What the hell is wrong with people? I can see driving a rental car harder than the car you own, but doing something like that is just disgusting.

Do all rental car companies/locations take the same approach to maintenance? Some newer cars (particularly with small displacement turbos) tend to burn oil as part of their normal operation, and I could see this being an issue.

As there are a number of former rental cars for sale, what are people's experience buying them? I had always thought a former rental would be well maintained, but I am starting to question that.

[Bubba1]

You didn't happen to mention from which rental car company you got that car. If it was not one of the major national agencies, deferring maintenance is a common strategy especially when they're getting ready to retire that car from service. If it was from a major rental firm, they do tend to check the cars pretty well between rentals and before retiring them (usually by 20K miles). That is, unless they are short of available cars. The two most common scenarios is 1. you reserved a car and they ran out, except for a car that literally just came in off lease. I could see some branch offices skipping their required maintenance procedures to get you out the door without delay. 2.Given the condition of your rental, it was probably that JFK ran out of cars, and the branch "borrowed" from their used car lot, which include retired rentals and executive lease returns. The reason I know it happens is because it happened to me when I rented a car during a vacation in Florida. Avis ran outta cars in Ft.Lauderdale despite my advance reservation, and they gave me an unprepped cosmetically challenged year old car off their used car lot with 30K miles. They offered me a steep discount rather than have me walk away angry to their competition.

I do agree that new Altimas make very good rental cars. Roomy, good mileage, easy to drive, reasonably comfortable. And those memory foam...I mean "NASA inspired zero gravity" front seats are nice once your tush settles in. And no, they are not among the cars that routinely burn oil, at least while under warranty. As far buying a retired rental? Run, do walk away. The rental companies tend to maintain the cars well, between rentals, and they tend to be competitively priced with fairly low mileage. But the 2000 lb gorilla in the room problem is that odds are they've been abused by many different renters. So odds are they will have shortened lives. I wouldn't want to own any rental car that has visited NICOfest Carlisle.

[lne937s]

Bubba1

I rented the car from Dollar. There are a lot of 1-way rentals here on the east coast and the car had VA plates. Maybe because the car didn't originate from them, they just neglected checking.

In terms of burning oil, I have not seen anything with the Altima... it seems Nissan did a proper re-work of the engine (tighter tolerances and finer finishes) to run on 0W20. However, some turbocharged cars (eg. Cruze) and cars that switched to thinner oil for fuel economy (Dart, some VW) but may not have been properly engineered to do so have been known to burn more oil than what was typical a decade ago- burning 3 quarts between oil changes can be considered "normal" by some brands. If they are not checking under the hood regularly, it could be causing significant issues.

For example, from a recent Chrysler service bulletin for 2012 and newer vehicles:

Oil Consumption
The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles listed above is 0.946
liter (1 qt.) in 3,200 km (2,000 mi) for the 1st 80,467 km (50,000 mi). For vehicles with
more then 80,467 km (50,000 mi) the acceptable oil consumption for engines is 0.946 liter
(1 qt.) in 1,207 km (750 mi). CAUTION: This above rate only applies to personal use vehicles, under warranty,
that are driven in a non-aggressive manner and maintained in
accordance with the appropriate maintenance schedule,
CAUTION: This rate does not apply to vehicles that are driven in an aggressive
manner, at high RPM, high speeds, or in a loaded condition (for trucks).
See ‘Causes for Oil Consumption’ below. Oil consumption for vehicles
driven under these conditions will be higher and may include Fleet and
Commercial customers.

BTW, I found out that there is a lot more to the seat design than just memory foam. Nissan started using NASA research back in 2005 to start development on the seats and published some tech papers shortly thereafter. 8 years seems like a lot of time to be developing a seat design.

http://spinoff.nasa.gov/Spinoff2013/t_4.html
http://articles.sae.org/11073/

[Rogue One]

They have no incentive to do anything other than minimal service on the cars, not "I'll keep this car forever!" type of service. It's a fairly obvious example of "you get what you pay for." Higher average Joe's off the street, give them minimal training, and you'll get a lackadaisical workforce.

[Bubba1]

Yes, I know they put more effort into it than memory foam, including a pivot point in the backrest, but when I sat in a 2013 Altima and tested it, my arse felt memory foam. Listen, It's a good seat, especially when you give the memory foam a chance to adjust to your tush, but I can tell you there are better car seats out there. I'm also kinda curious how well those seats will hold up in the long run. They've only been out since the 2013 model year.

As far as oil consumption goes, last time I looked, Chrysler does not supply Nissan their engines. I have not looked at the 2013-14 Nissan service manuals, but I do not believe the 2.5L motor Nissan uses in the Altima is designed to consume as much oil in 2000 miles as what Chrysler says is normal for their engines.


And to answer your question "Do all rental car companies/locations take the same approach to maintenance?"
The answer is: they are supposed to. But that doesn't mean it actually happens everywhere/every time. As a consumer of a national service like Dollar, if you are unhappy with their product/service, I'm very sure they'll want to know about it. And If you don't get satisfaction locally, I'm sure their national folks will want to hear about it. Car renting is a very competitive business and believe me, they want you to use them again, not a competitor.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Oil Consumption
The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles listed above is 0.946
liter (1 qt.) in 3,200 km (2,000 mi) for the 1st 80,467 km (50,000 mi). For vehicles with
more then 80,467 km (50,000 mi) the acceptable oil consumption for engines is 0.946 liter
(1 qt.) in 1,207 km (750 mi). CAUTION: This above rate only applies to personal use vehicles, under warranty,
that are driven in a non-aggressive manner and maintained in
accordance with the appropriate maintenance schedule,
CAUTION: This rate does not apply to vehicles that are driven in an aggressive
manner, at high RPM, high speeds, or in a loaded condition (for trucks).
See ‘Causes for Oil Consumption’ below. Oil consumption for vehicles
driven under these conditions will be higher and may include Fleet and
Commercial customers.

Wow, by that metric, my almost 280k Honda passes their criteria for oil consumption. Good to know!!

[lne937s]

As far as oil consumption goes, last time I looked, Chrysler does not supply Nissan their engines. I have not looked at the 2013-14 Nissan service manuals, but I do not believe the 2.5L motor Nissan uses in the Altima is designed to consume as much oil in 2000 miles as what Chrysler says is normal for their engines.

I think you got the wrong impression from what I wrote. Of course Nissan's use Nissan engines and I have seen no evidence of oil consumption... I said as much in my previous post. However, rental car companies rent more than just Nissans. And many of those other cars are known to consume oil, so there is a significant chance that the rental car companies will have significant issues with those cars.

But despite the Nissan not having the same issues, somebody should still be checking under the hood on a regular basis.

And I think Nissan may want to take an interest in how their cars are being maintained in rental fleets. In addition to rentals ending up "certified pre-owned", many people experience driving newer models for first time as rentals and may get turned off by a poorly maintained vehicle.

[Bubba1]

Absolutely, the key word is SHOULD, but since Dollar operates under a franchise system, that means most of the branches you deal with are independently owned. So the answer about how diligently they actually do proper maintenance depends on the franchise owner, who is responsible for his own bottom line.

Most of Dollar's national rental car fleet is leased, not owned. According to their own website, "Most rental vehicles in the Dollar fleet are what's commonly referred to as "Program Vehicles," which are returned to the manufacturer for resale by dealers in their franchise network."
And since those leases are likely pretty short, even traditionally unreliable cars like Chryslers, are likely to make it thru their leases with few problems. So if you visit your local Nissan, Chrysler dealer, (or whatever make Dollar leases) and see offers for late model "program" or "executive fleet" cars for a slight discount, good chance you're looking at former rental cars.

But as far as rental cars starting low on oil and then consuming even more while you have the car, unfortunately, the way your rental agreement is written, it's you the renter that's responsible to check/add fluids as necessary while in it's in your possession. But If you're that concerned about your rental car's oil not being checked/topped off before you pick it up, perhaps you should consider paying a little more and rent instead from a non-discount car rental company like Hertz or Avis. Those companies tout guaranteed detailed pre-trip inspections as compared to a discount firm like Dollar that may or may not do it. Food for thought.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I guess you could always just do your own inspection prior to driving off the lot too, no? Not that you should have to, just saying.

[MinisterofDOOM]

ONE QUART PER 750 MILES?! That makes "batsh@t" seem like a personally reasonable state of mind. At that rate, to last the whole 5,000 mile OCI, you'd need to add SIX AND A HALF QUARTS. THAT IS MORE THAN THE ENGINE'S TOTAL CAPACITY. At that point, why ever change the oil? Just keep pouring quart after quart into the POS and change the filter on occasion.

Wow, by that metric, my almost 280k Honda passes their criteria for oil consumption. Good to know!!

Passes? PAH! My 285k mile Maxima didn't consume a single DROP of oil. Geez. VG30>modern Nissan.

The QR25 is the biggest turd to slop down the sides of the automotive toilet bowl since the 1983 Hyundai Excel.

[lne937s]

ONE QUART PER 750 MILES?! That makes "batsh@t" seem like a personally reasonable state of mind. At that rate, to last the whole 5,000 mile OCI, you'd need to add SIX AND A HALF QUARTS. THAT IS MORE THAN THE ENGINE'S TOTAL CAPACITY. At that point, why ever change the oil? Just keep pouring quart after quart into the POS and change the filter on occasion.

Wow, by that metric, my almost 280k Honda passes their criteria for oil consumption. Good to know!!

Passes? PAH! My 285k mile Maxima didn't consume a single DROP of oil. Geez. VG30>modern Nissan.

The QR25 is the biggest turd to slop down the sides of the automotive toilet bowl since the 1983 Hyundai Excel.

That quote is about new Chrysler engines, NOT the QR25DE. The QR has no reported problems with burning oil. I only put that quote from a Chrysler service bulletin in there to give an example of many new cars that are NOT Nissans but often show up in rental car fleets (like the Chevy Cruze, Dodge Dart, etc.) do have a tendency to burn a lot much more oil than cars from a decade ago and could be very problematic if not checked. It is a comment about rental cars in general that may not be getting proper maintenance, not Nissans.

So, to repeat, the oil consumption problems are NOT a problem with Nissan. However, a lack of regular maintenance does seem to be an issue with some rental car companies.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Ahh I see. Bubba's post confused me.

Early QR25s actually did have severe oil consumption problems, acknowledged by Nissan. They're supposedly fixed (for several years), but I still have no interest in the engine.

[lne937s]

Sorry about all the "NOT"s, but it only takes one person to misread something for rumors to start and I wanted to nip it in the bud.

Regarding the QR, the engine has seen significant updates and improvements over the years (mostly under the skin), despite keeping the same engine code. However, the long-stroke engine was obviously designed for fuel economy, useable torque and everyday driving, rather than all-out high-rev horsepower.

[AZhitman]

How about we get back to the OP's experience of renting a Slobmobile - and why anyone would THINK of buying a former rental car.

Hell, I feel sad for the poor schlupp who buys anything I ever rented for Carlisle or VIR. A little.

[Chris.m]

I used to work at a car rental place (I'll keep it unnamed, but its the biggest in North America)

Here's some insight:

What the hell is wrong with people?

There are a few types of renters:

The business traveler - will probably be clean
The Family on holiday - will make a mess
People on road trips - will make a mess
Old people - will be clean
People who live in the city and need a car to go to IKEA - will make it dirty

Most of the time, people make cars dirty.


Do all rental car companies/locations take the same approach to maintenance?

There was an automated system that said when a car was due for an oil change, but no one ever checked fluids/tires etc...
Turnover is huge and checking those items takes time and gets you dirty.


As there are a number of former rental cars for sale, what are people's experience buying them?

I knew a guy who bought a Feista from Budget - it seemed OK

I would never buy a past rental car though. It is just neglected and abused from the start.

[Dattebayo]

checking those items takes time and gets you dirty.

That's why they call it "work", son.

Those who make the hustle earn the muscle.