Rebuilt motor cranks slow-no start. 97 D21 KA24E

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jonathan1173
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Car: 1997 Nissan Pickup XE 4X2
Location: Houston

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Rebuilt KA24E on 97 D21. Are newly rebuilt motors this tight and difficult at initial startup?
Should I consider replacing starter? (it is the original).
Is my dist. backwards (doubtful)-raised backward D facing front of engine.
Input, advice, and similar experiences hopefully with solutions welcome.
History:
New standard size rod bearings, new ARP rod bolts, torqued to spec (33ft-lbs), plastiguaged thrice. Cleaned pistons, light hone on cylinders, new Hastings rings, gapped to spec. Assembly lube on rods, chain, etc. Professionally rebuilt engine head, new head gasket, timing chain kit, cap, rotor, plugs and wires and injectors. Set #1 piston at TDC (piston all the way up) , head with #1 all valves closed, mounted with new OEM head bolts torqued to spec with new head gasket.
New oil pump, installed with drive gear tab almost vertical when looking up from underneath. Installed Dist with rotor facing 11 o'clock, raised backwards "D" on drive gear facing front of vehicle.
Rotated by hand with plugs in, a little stiff at one point of the rotation (compression stroke).Primed motor by removing plugs, pulling fuel pump fuse, cranked over until oil light went out, repeated again. Engine spun over easily and fast (no plugs). Installed plugs, fuel pump fuse back in, pump whirring with key-on, engine-off.
Cranked the key and engine rotated very slowly. Battery out of running SUV and known good. It did not want to rotate fast enough to fire up, sounded like a dead/weak battery. I placed the battery back in other vehicle and that vehicle cranked right up.


whomadewho
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Common to be tight at initial startup. Dry start can result in damage to engine. Pull the spark plugs and oil the cylinder walls. You can use a syringe,works good. I would use Marvel mystery oil. Recheck distributor rotor location. Rotate engine to TDC,should point to number one position on the cap. If it's pointed in the opposite direction rotate to number 1 cylinder. Number 1 rotor position is in the 8 o'clock position. The distributor only fits one way. You can also use another source of external power such as a battery charger or a booster battery. Also check the relay located on the passenger side inner fender. Try switching it with the AC relay,provided the AC has worked.

whomadewho
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Something you might want to consider before startup hook up a master positive oil pressure gauge.

whomadewho
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The distributor rotor position is based on where your standing when you look at the distributor?

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jonathan1173
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Thanks for the advice, I'll oil the cylinders, install new battery and try to start using another running vehicle with booster cables ran parallel this weekend.
Meanwhile, will set crank at TDC and pull cap to confirm rotor position. Wires are labeled 1-2-3-4, so I'll ensure rotor is pointing towards the #1 cylinder wire where is connects onto cap.
If the above fails, I'll consider replacing the starter. I see listings for 0.9 kw and 1.50 kw, and am leaning towards the 1.5 kw as it will put out more cranking torque, correct?
What effect does the relay on passenger side inner fender have on the cranking/ starting process?

whomadewho
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The relay IF bad won't effect the cranking,but will effect the starting. When you put oil in the cylinders and crank the engine over (Without spark plugs) MAKE SURE you place a rag over the plug holes, saves a lot of clean up. Just my opinion I would hold off replacing the starter. Some of the over the pond remanufactured aftermarket junk is a waste of money & time. If you take the starter out have it load tested and if needed have it rebuilt. The extra torque is not necessary.

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jonathan1173
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Yes, definitely covered plug holes before priming. I did reset oil-pump/ dist. drive gear as it was aimed about
10 degrees clockwise of the #1 on the cap. It was off about 2 teeth on the drive spindle gear. Right now its at the 11 o'clock and before was at 12:30 looking down at the distributor. (This would place the timing on the slow (retard) side as the rotor remains stationary. Clockwise to advance/ counter to retard.)
Getting these engines in time can be a PITA, and I hope having the base timing spot-on will fix the slow crank/ no start issue.
I'll toss in a new battery this weekend and hope it fires up so I can fine tune timing w/ light.

whomadewho
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Good luck & update with the results.

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jonathan1173
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Update- Base timing is spot-on now. Installed brand new Interstate battery and still cranking slow, but does start and run now!
The D21 told me I wasn't done yet, as I now have exhaust fumes coming out from intake/ throttle body area. To narrow it down, I doused manifold, O2, and EGR to exhaust manifold fitting with soapy water before cranking. No bubbles present, but after about a minute the exhaust smell was very strong under the hood. No smoke/ bubbles around manifold so the only other place would be the EGR pipe. I had previously removed/ reinstalled before and remember that it does have a kink now. I've since ordered new EGR valve and tube to hopefully enable the exhaust to exit via the tailpipe.
I also noticed a coolant leak coming from underneath the intake manifold, spilling onto alternator and oil pump. During the rebuild, I've replaced all of the coolant hoses, and remember all looked good prior to the intake install. Obviously not as I have a leak. Next step is to remove power steering pump to gain access under manifold to trace the leak while I'm waiting on EGR parts.

whomadewho
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Instead of using soapy water, try using carb.cleaner. If any type of leak is present you will notice a change in engine idle. Hope you compared intake take manifold gasket before installing it. 1997 d21 used a couple different intake gaskets. As far as the coolant leak - possible loose hose clamp or thermostat gasket. Shouldn't have to remove power steering pump. Remove the idler pulley & bracket. Might have to remove the alternator belt if it's a thermostat gasket issue. Quick question how's the engine idle? If the idle is rough - might try checking engine vacumm. The exhaust smell under the hood MIGHT be an indication of a vacumm leak.

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jonathan1173
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Thanks, I'll try the carb cleaner around intake manifold. I decided to use soapy water applied with engine cold as I am a bit reluctant to spray carb cleaner on hot exhaust manifold.
Intake manifold gasket matched up to ports and holes exactly, hope its not the issue. Idle is terrible, as I have to feather the gas to keep it running. My theory is the EGR tube is leaking either along the pipe (kink in line from prior work) or from the tube-to-EGR fitting. I'll replace both this weekend.
On a side note, does the large vacuum hose coming from the brake booster feed into the throttle body connection? Of course I didnt take pictures before disassembly, and am not able to confirm on FSM diagrams.

whomadewho
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Brake booster vacumm hose is a formed hose, the location is just below the throttle body (toward the fender). Not a problem using carb. cleaner. I use a small can of small engine carb cleaner. The can size makes it more convenient to get into tight places. You can also spray the area between the throttle body & intake - possible gasket leak. NOTE: Use small bursts of cleaner. You also need to read up on proper engine break in procedure & break in oil. A excellent investment which would really help you is a OBD2/EOBD scanner. Possible your dealing with several issues,the scanner will help pin point the problem. You don't need to extend the credit line on the credit card to purchase one. I purchased a OBD2/EOBD scanner model - MS509 for $69.00 works great. Like always a couple weeks later, found the same one foe$49.00

whomadewho
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If you invest in one make sure you get one with a live data feature.

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jonathan1173
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Thanks for confirming, I do have brake booster hose correct. I replaced old/ original EGR and tube and am no longer having any exhaust coming from under air cleaner area. It now seems the exhaust fumes are coming from underneath the cab area. I'm in the process of removing gaskets and cat to inspect/ replace and seal up. Good flow coming from tailpipe so I'm leaning towards leaking gasket opposed to clogged cat.Fortunately, the exhaust components are bolt-on from the factory so it'll be easier (not easy) to replace any needed components individually. I'll post what I find.
I'll definitely look into the MS509 scanner online.

whomadewho
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Glad it wasn't a intake gasket. Check the drain hole in the muffler. The tail pipe doesn't always extend beyond the box,could be the source? Try restricting the exhaust flow at the tail pipe,should be able to find the source. I am guessing it's the flange gaskets between the exhaust manifold & exhaust pipe? Pretty common for the studs or nuts to loosen up. Takes a lot of time & patience to get a proper seal. You might try double nutting. The answer if they are available is to use brass nuts. If possible I would replace the studs. Another problem is the tail pipe hanger. I have replaced several hangers over a period of time,only to find the tailpipe flopping like a crappie out of water after a short period of time. Finally used a piece of wire between the hanger & pipe.

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jonathan1173
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Catalytic convertor is glowing, rough idle now. What could cause this?
I've now replaced the egr and tube, no more leaks from under hood.
Replaced cat, downstream o2, and all flange gaskets and bolts.
Ignition wires in order, new injectors look to be plugged in order.
Advanced timing at dist. a bit and it did help curtail the pop sound from air cleaner.
Advice and similar experiences welcome.

whomadewho
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Possible restriction downstream cat converter. Can't remember if there are two flanges on the converter? If so loosen the flange bolts toward the back of converter see if the glow still occurs. Could have a baffle in the muffler that collapsed. Is the truck equipped with a resonator, could have something going on in the resonator? How's the exhaust flow coming out of the tail pipe?

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jonathan1173
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I just replaced the catalytic convertor, new out of the box.It's a Walker bolt-on and has no directional arrows. Appears symetrical, so I doubt it can be installed "backwards" can it?
Replaced all flange gaskets. New downstream o2 sensor. Exhaust coming out of tailpipe just fine. No exhaust leaks .

I pulled code 1320 ignition signal error code.

New plugs, wires, cap, and rotor.
What could be causing this error code with symptoms of rough idle, glowing cat, and intermittent pop-ing at air intake?

whomadewho
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Code 1320 - Is a is a ignition signal issue usually a sign of something going on in the distributor. I had the same code 1320 a couple of months ago ended up replacing the distributor. Also a resistor (egi) should be located near the number 1 Injector - unplug and test. I think the resistance is 2.2 ohms been a while not positive. Don't think the cat is on wrong. Engine could also be dumping an excess amount of fuel causing the cat. to glow? Could be fuel pump regulator - temp sensor (controls air fuel mixture). Crankshaft sensor could also cause this. Might also want to take the truck to a muffler shop and remove the down stream 02 sensor and have them install a gauge to check the amount of back pressure.

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jonathan1173
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Update, resistor is 2.16, should be good.
Double checked timing, camshaft key straight up, crank at TDC. BTW, made sure heads #1 valves closed before installing on block, #1 cyl all the way up. Spindle correct with the backwards d. Rotor at #1.
Convertor doesn't seem to be glowing, no noticible leaks, new cat, gaskets, and o2.
Question is, with the p1302 code, did you check/ change anything else before swapping the distributor? How was truck running when it threw the code?

whomadewho
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Glad to hear the cat. is no longer glowing. I own a 1996 & 1997 Nissan pickup. I am redoing the body on the 1997 pickup,bought the 1996 for a parts truck. The 1996 truck idled good but when I accelerated seemed to have a miss. Both O2 sensors are gone so I assumed that was the problem. The P.O. Stated the distributor was less than a year old. Checked for codes and p 1302 came up. I didn't want to purchase a new OEM distributor because I wasn't positive this was the problem. I purchased a used OEM distributor for $35.00, replaced it and the truck runs excellent. The only other thing I did before replacing the distributor there was a broken wire on the sensor on the air cleaner, and I replaced the fuel filter.

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jonathan1173
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I've ordered another Crankcase Position Sensor and will try that first as its only a $40 part and is one of the causes for the P1302 code.
I understand its on top of the bell housing in the back of the engine, should be easy to get to :).
If its not CPS then my distributor must be toast as it wont even hold an idle. Only code coming back is that P1302. At least your's was idling with a slight miss.
I remember this problem started after someone hit truck in the back hard enough to destroy bumper, so perhaps the impact damaged the distributor, not sure.
I'll keep you guys posted.

whomadewho
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Possible the corner got sheared off during the R&R of the engine? Hook up a vacuum gauge, could be dealing with a vacuum leak?

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jonathan1173
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I've replaced the Crankshaft Position Sensor, no luck, same symptoms and still P1302. They really make it fun to change! It would've been easier had I removed the EGR tube from exhaust manifold and the dipstick bracket. You cant even see it, have to feel for the 10mm bolt, then cover comes off allowing removal.
I'll look into distributors this week and likely install a vacuum gauge, should hold steady at about 18-20?
Any thoughts on a new aftermarket distributor? I know OEM is ideal, but I don't think OEM is 4 times better than aftermarket to justify the cost. I'll also consider salvage yards around town.
I've heard some of the aftermarket ignition coils on distributor-less ingnitions don't get along with Nissans, but I think distributors are a bit less picky.
Will keep you posted.

whomadewho
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Before you go any further...... (ONE). With a hand held vacuum gauge check vacuum- should at idle - 18- 23 inches. (TWO). If low first remove fuel pump relay and recheck engine compression. (THREE) If compression is good - check for leaks. Again with carburetor cleaner focus around the intake area. Just my opinion I think you have a vacuum leak. I still wouldn't rule out the intake gasket just yet. Not a fan of aftermarket Distributors I just don't like to be the one to test them. Not trying to discourage you from getting one, but if you go that route find a supplier that will honor the warranty. Seen an OEM distributor on eBay the other day for around $60.00. The thought of paying between - 2 TO 3 hundred dollars for a new one doesn't set well. Check Hollander or car-part.com used auto parts, might find one.

whomadewho
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Try clearing the p1302 code & recheck for codes. Possible your dealing with a code that's has been stored in he memory?

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jonathan1173
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Code 1302 (primary ignition signal) pops back up after resetting.
I'll next try the vacuum test (if I can hold steady idle with an assistant) and compression test with fuel pump relay disconnected.
I doubt its the timing as it fires right up, besides I ensured head was at TDC (valves #1 closed) and block w/#1 up before installing
new head with new bolts and gasket. Chain, sprockets and spindle drive all line up.
BTW, intake gasket replaced with new studs torqued to spec, replaced all vacuum lines (triple checked none are disconnected).
Looks like I'll need to set the odometer back to zero when done with all the parts I've replaced. :)
I'll be putting in new distributor in the morning and keep everyone posted.

whomadewho
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Thanks for the update. Hard to believe all the issues going on, when the engine ran great before the engine overhaul. Feel your frustration. I have owned my 1997 pickup for almost 8 years. That's why I have chosen whomadewho. Redoing the body, cut all the rust out, nothing left of the truck. So far Over the years I have replaced...... front park lights ... grille..bumper..headlight assembly.. radiator support..bumper brackets... repaired inner fender left side... both front fenders & doors replaced....inner & outer rockers both sides. Dog leg right side... 2/3 left side box side... repaired right box side.....60 percentage of the bed...rust in floor driver side & tail gate Spent a little over a grand on body parts, a lot I am able to fabricate. Less than 1 quart of body filler. Have done a lot of repairables, hate doing rust out. After working on the Nissan, not sure if I want to be a bodyman when I grow up.

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jonathan1173
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Wow, after all that work, you'll have it looking mint very soon. Other than replacing quarter panels, bolt-on body parts, I've learned that I am an expert at bad body work.:)
Incidentally, the truck was experiencing this issue before the rebuild, after I was hit in the back hard enough to scramble the rear bumper. It's probably something brought on by the impact that is causing this issue. I've since replaced the distributor with no improvement. I've already replaced exhaust gaskets (pipe and manifold), catalytic converter, all vacuum hoses and much more.
Any ideas how a rear impact would be causing lack of idle?

whomadewho
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There is a canister & a solenoid switch located just ahead of the spare tire. If the material in the canister loosened & migrated into the lines this could cause problems, but one would assume the check engine light would present a code?


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