rebuilding stock turbo for high flow?

[BoostFab]

A turbos efficiency range is also a factor in choosing a turbo. A GCG turbo may be able to make 400whp being maxed out, but it will certainly not be within its efficiency range. This in my personal experience with many other turbos results in premature turbo failure. I know a lot of people that have had to replace turbos within 6 months to a year. That being said I would much prefer to use a larger turbo such as a gt30r to safely hit 400-450whp

-Bluefire

my thought exactly.

[TSL]

opinions are like a55-holes, you have yours.

True, although i try to stick with the facts.

now your experience invalidate everyone's!? calling someone ignorance doesnt make yourself far from it. you are starting to becoming a big annoynance than helping.

No, my experience is no more valid than anyone elses. The problem is that nobody else here actually has any experience with the gcg turbo. You are in fact by definition ignorant about the gcg turbo. Get a dictionary and improve your english skills. You find it annoying when someone corrects your wrong information? You should learn to be more tolerant.

to me that is still yet to be proven, i will treat it as "speculation" until i see some evidence. show me the dyno chart of that GCG built stock turbo that put out that power and i'm sold. until then, i see that holds no value. the stock sized turbo chokes on top end, i doubt it making 400whp. even on a high-flow rebuilt. don't forget efficiency factor.

If you feel the need to be overly cynical just to defend your poorly researched opinions that is fine. I see that you are struggling to comprehend something that is outside of your knowledge so i will walk you through it. When i am back at the workshop on monday i will print out a dyno sheet for you.

every know aftermarket upgrade larger than stock turbo is the way to go, for the sake of efficiency and lower boost to get their power goal. i don't give a rat a55 if you push the stock-like turbo to 30psi to make your 400whp, for all i care.

Ok i have no idea what you are on about now. Think before you type.

you have yet to prove the actual price of the GCG's unit make it a better option vs off-the-shelf turbo. again, everyone has their own opinion.

I never said anything about the turbo cost and at no point did i say the gcg turbo was the best choice or the most efficient turbo to make 400rwhp. Simply that it is capable of making that power as a direct bolt on turbo, which is what the original question was. If you have evidence to contradict this then please feel free to share it.

I am not the one giving my opinion or making a claim as to which turbo is best. I am simply sticking to the facts i know about the gcg turbo. Perhaps you should do the same.
Modified by TSL at 5:46 AM 8/17/2008

[ANVIL]

wow. lots going on in this thread since i last checked. as of right now im still waiting for a reply from gcg. like i said, this is just something i came across and entailing the idea of doing this but not quite sure what route im going yet.

can you guys recommend me some specific turbos that would put me in my goal hp range? what do u guys think about the direct fit turbos from jgy customs? theres 3 different ones at the same price, i dont even know the differences...

[TSL]

What exactly are your power requirements and what is the car going to be mainly used for?

Is it a track/race only car or a daily driver?Do you only care about peak power or overall driveability?What is your realistic power goal and do you intend to use that power continuously or just to show off now and then?How far are you prepared to go with other mods to support the turbo.Then the big one is budget.

Like the other guys mentioned above, if you want to be cranking out 400-450whp reliably then you will need a fairly big turbo. This is where the decision process becomes tricky as the balance between outright power and response is found. The goal is to find a turbo that is just big enough to get you the power you want without needing too much boost while retaining a broad power band.

I'm inclined to recommend Garrett, HKS or Trust based on good personal experience. Not surprisingly, the japanese brands have tweaked their turbos to match most of the japanese turbo engines very well. The balance between exhaust and compressor flow is more important to get right with a relatively small capacity but high reving motor.

[Cjmartz2k]

Geez, I was getting ready to get on here and make a nice reply try to play nice since arguing on the internet really isn't the coolest thing in the world, but than I read your comments. There is way to much bull**** on your part to for me to go through your points (or lack of points) one by one, so I will say this.

You have claimed a lack of proof on our parts while having a wealth of information at your disposal. I am the only one to produce any numbers, and the highest one was 320rwhp. That's WELL short of your claims. You went to the same source I did to look for numbers, didn't find anything to your liking, so you instead attempt to "dazzle" us with you claims of being some kind of super experienced tuner. As with your other claims, I find that hard to believe.

And reccomending garret, HKS, or Trust is another typical Aussie thing. You guys piss all kinds of money down the drain swinging on the nuts of "name brand" parts, and claiming everything else is crap. My $450 new Holset will outspool and outflow one of your super duper Garrett Dual Ball Bearing GT35r's any day. O, and it didn't run $1500.

Lets see, what are some other things one can "learn" from SAU?

-Anything from ebay is garbage (including the ebay wastegates, intercoolers, and suspension parts that almost everybody on Oki is running with zero problems)-RB25's magicaly explode over 450rwhp-if it doesn't say Greddy, Trust, or HKS on it, it's crap-you can't run more than 1.2bar on a stock headgasket-splitfires are WAY better than stock coils in good shape-your turbo will shatter itself in no time with out a BOV-the list goes on and on

There IS some great information on SAU, but there is also a lot of BS that keeps getting repeated to all the newbs, and they take it as the gospel because it comes from somebody with a 12,000 post count. Then they repeat it. Your problem is you attempt to spout off all this knowledge with only the supposed proof being what you have told yourself over and over again enough times so that you believe it.

In summary, show me some numbers. I have some, where are yours?

[Cjmartz2k]

Anvil, speaking from actual first hand experience with the turbo, a Holset HX35 would be prefect for your wants. You can make between 400 and 450rwhp with one and be at over 1 bar of boost before 3500rpm on a stock cammed RB25.

Some other good options would be GT3037 (expensive though), TO4s (kinda old technology), or a Brog-Warner 3xx (I can't remember what).
Modified by Cjmartz2k at 5:43 PM 8/17/2008

[Cjmartz2k]

More numbers from the dyno thread.......... http://www.skylinesaustralia.c....htmlAnd here is a converter for you weird guys using HP instead of KW's http://www.mr2ownersclub.com/converter.htm

---247.4rwkwR33GTSTZ32 AFMGCG High Flow - R33 exhaust housing (not vg30)3" Batmbl bellmouth dump --> Catco Cat --> 3.5" Kakimoto with 2 mufflersS15 injectors 450ccTomei Fuel PumpTurbtech boost valve18psi - running back to 16psiStock Airbox450x300x76 FMIC (Justjap)

---QUOTE(Joeyz @ 7 Sep 2007, 01:43 PM) *Hi all

Hi-flow Turbo - GCGExhaust cam gear - Adjustable GreedyAdjustable fuel pressure regulater - Turbosmart500hp intank fuell pump - WalbroZ32 AFMNGK Irridum spark plugsShell V-Power Racing Fuel3" ExhaustFMIC - Greedy

244.9rwkw

Update

Tomei Pon CamsSard 700cc Injectors

Now Getting 270rwkw on 1.2bar/18psi

---------Hey, now that one is almost in the ballpark (360rwhp guys)

---

Apexi pod & boxz32 AFMslide hi-flow turboFMICNismo 555cc injectorsGreddy Profec II boost controllerApexi powerFC3 inch front and dump pipe3 inch hi-flow cat3 inch Nismo cat back

235.8rwkw @ 15psi - all work done by Unigroup smile.gif

---Turbos Australia HiFlowFront MountWalbro3" turbo backPower FCNismo Fuel RegCopper plugsStock injectorsHitMan tune228.5rwkwspic of the SAFC II tune compared to Power FC tune

---'96 RB25DET Skyline

ATP Stage 3 Hi flow turbo.Apexi 3" Turbo back exhaustApexi power intakeZ32 AFMNismo 555cc injectorsKoyo aluminium 100mm radiator.Greddy oil cooler and filter relocation kitGREDDY FMICPower FC w/ boost control set @ 1.1 bar (16psi)

249.7rw/kw @ RE Customs

---

R33 4door factory 5speed manualrb25standard high flow turbofull3inch zorst with HKS split dump pipe555cc nismo inj600+300+80mm coolerPower FCapexi power intake filter kitstock bottom endstandard head15pound made 299.4rwhp18pound went 320rwhpdont have scanner to post up sheets but not telling liesas Matt Sprite at P.I.T.S auto tuned my car and he is very very good.

---

R33 S1 GTS-t

rebuilt motorfully balanced bottom endCP forged pistons

k&n pod filter with CAI3.5" turbo back exhaust + high flow catfront mount intercoolerbleed valve boost controllerbosch 040 fuel pumpapex power fcnismo fuel pressure regZ32 air flow meter + tomei plughiflowed turbo with VG30 exhaust housing

241.6kw

Do I need to go on?? Have fun with all your tuning experience while us over here in the real world keep on keepin on

*edit--forgot to link the converter

[TSL]

So you claim i am wrong but you just don't have the time to prove it. You really are struggling here aren't you?But you have plenty of time to go off on an irrelevant rant about some australian car forum? Time to up the meds mate and stop whining like a little kid. You have nothing to offer other than piss weak insults.

I see you took the time to post up some random dyno figures. Good for you.There are various different high flow options available, that is why some are making 240kw on 13psi and others are making less power with more boost.

I notice you neglected to put this one up. Why is that i wonder?

GT3071R from GCG with one of their T3 rear housings (op6 casting) .7 arFMICBosch Motorsport pumpAM Performance split dump with screamer, 4 inch pipe with duel 3 inch mufflersMalpassi Rising rate fuel press regstock injectors20 psi boost due to overboosting

this is the result - 283 rwkw (link to dyno sheet)http://img254.imageshack.us/my...5.jpg

Thats 378rwhp with a conservative tune.It is the largest GCG highflow option i was talking about which is basically a garrett gt3071r with a machined rb25 front cover and gcg vg30det rear cover.Notice the boost response almost identical to the standard turbo.And yes i know it is not 400whp but it is close and is the best i can find without having access to my own resources.

In summary, show me some numbers. I have some, where are yours?

You only have arbitrary numbers. Are you that much of a cretin that you don't realise it is the weekend? Am i supposed to pull dyno sheets out of my arse? When i am at the workshop on monday i'll print as many dyno sheets as you like.

My $450 new Holset will outspool and outflow one of your super duper Garrett Dual Ball Bearing GT35r's any day.

Dyno proof or you are full of it.

Do I need to go on??

No you don't. I think you have embarrassed yourself enough already.
Modified by TSL at 9:02 PM 8/17/2008

[Cjmartz2k]

I didn't see that one. You wonder why? Well, it doesn't say high flow, that's why. Obviously, it took you a while to find it. So you are calling a GT3071 with a custom exhaust housing made to bolt up to a RB a high flowed turbo? Now who's the one struggling?

"Random" dyno figures? Your right, they were random. They were the first ones I came across. They weren't the lowest I could find in an attempt to prove my point. They were from the first 3 pages and pages 17-20 of that thread. They were ALL the ones I could find on those pages. How about your SINGLE "random" dyno that was the highest you could find after 24 hours worth of searching and is still not a high flow and still not 400rwhp.

I also see you are trying the "O, only 14 psi. Turn up the boost and see what happens!" crap again. Well, as you can see above, somebody did. 18psi and 360rwhp. And did I also mention they needed huge *** cams to do it. I don't think Anvil would see that hp level on his stock motor.

Cretin because I don't realize it's the weekend? Sure--I'm working all weekend, but anywho, sure, print me out some of your own dyno sheets from your own shop. That will really convince me.

Dyno proof or you are full of it.

Sorry, we no longer have one on Okinawa, but I'll see what I can do. A lot of the DSM guys run them (2.0L 4G63)

No you don't. I think you have embarrassed yourself enough already.

You are the only one that thinks so.

You have offered one misleading dyno figure (which, as you stated, still isn't 400rwhp) and talked about how experienced of a tuner you are as your proof of your point that a high flow from GCG would be a good option for Anvil who is looking for between 400rwhp and 450rwhp and not so much customization to get it installed. I have provided a mountain of dyno results on a myriad of setups that are at best 40rwhp short of his goal (and that's with some big cams). Yeah, I'm really the one that hasn't proven his point, aren't I?

[240z4u]

Wow, this thread has gone in the crapper.

You guys both need to lose the attitude, your making yourselves look like total a$$holes (which is odd, since I don't see posts like this from either of you before).

Seriously, your bickering is not helping out the OP at all. Its becoming an internet pecker measuring contest.

Okay OP! Are you still interested in a modified stocker? Or something different? Maybe there is other guidance here that you can use.

Evan

BTW; early spool in a well tuned/assembled rb25det isn't an absolute need. I rarely leave vac. when I daily drive my car.

[TSL]

I didn't see that one. You wonder why? Well, it doesn't say high flow, that's why.

So you do have absolutely no idea what turbo i am even talking about then. Just as i a suspected. Yet you still continue to argue?

Obviously, it took you a while to find it.

No, it was the first one i found, the internet is not that hard.

So you are calling a GT3071 with a custom exhaust housing made to bolt up to a RB a high flowed turbo?

No, GCG is calling it their bigest direct bolt on high flow turbo for rb25det. Which is a gt3071 core in a machined rb25 front cover and gcg's direct copy of the vg30det exhaust housing. Feel free to contact gcg to educate yourself further about the turbo in question. It is what gcg sell as their big rb25 highflow, simple as that.

Now who's the one struggling?

Evidently, still you, and it's become quite tedious.

At this point all you are doing is convincing me you have no idea what you are talking about and are completely oblivious to the turbo i have been discussing.

"Random" dyno figures? Your right, they were random. They were the first ones I came across. They weren't the lowest I could find in an attempt to prove my point. They were from the first 3 pages and pages 17-20 of that thread. They were ALL the ones I could find on those pages.

But why? Honestly why are you trying so hard to prove me wrong when you have no real reason to? What you have presented so far is meaningless when there are so many different "high flow" turbos available. Even from GCG you could get at least 2 different compressor options and 2 different exhaust options. You can't be sure any of those dyno results are using the same turbo i am talking about and you have no details on the exact state of tune.

How about your SINGLE "random" dyno that was the highest you could find after 24 hours worth of searching and is still not a high flow and still not 400rwhp.

Well it took less than 5 minutes to find. It's not a random dyno, it's one of my customers cars that i tune. I only used a car that i am familiar with so that i can be 100% sure i know the full story behind it and can provide relevant details if necessary.

That was the initial tune with that turbo, he had a smaller high flow before that made less power. After he sorted some issues out he came back and after retuning it made the same power on 16psi.

sure, print me out some of your own dyno sheets from your own shop. That will really convince me.

Well there we have it. You openly admit that you will not acknowledge that you are wrong even when presented with the exact evidence you have been asking me for. What is the point of all this? What are you trying to achieve here?

Sorry, we no longer have one on Okinawa, but I'll see what I can do.

Yet you have the nerve to demand evidence from me?

You have offered one misleading dyno figure (which, as you stated, still isn't 400rwhp)

How is it misleading, back that statement up.

and talked about how experienced of a tuner you are as your proof of your point that a high flow from GCG would be a good option for Anvil who is looking for between 400rwhp and 450rwhp and not so much customization to get it installed.

I never once said it was the best turbo for him. Please read more carefully and try to follow the conversation.

The real issue here is that you said the 450hp gcg highflow could get "nowhere near" that power. I say it can because i have personally seen it. You say it can't although you are completely unfamiliar with it.

I have provided a mountain of dyno results on a myriad of setups that are at best 40rwhp short of his goal (and that's with some big cams).

All you have provided is arbitrary data on random cars that you have no detailed and verifiable information on.

Yeah, I'm really the one that hasn't proven his point, aren't I?

Indeed.

Seriously, what is your real issue here? Why are you so determined to prove me wrong about this turbo? You ask me for proof of my claims and when i offer to provide proof, you say that you won't believe it anyway. Where is the logic there?

If you don't believe me then contact gcg yourself and get some details on the turbo so you know what you are talking about. Find out about the housings and wheel sizes and then decide if it is impossible to make the power. Even have a look at a compressor map for a 3071 on the garrett website.

You have made it clear that you are so stubborn and narrow minded that you will never admit you are wrong even when provided with the proof you have requested. If that is the case then there is no point in dragging this out any further.

[BoostFab]

wow. lots going on in this thread since i last checked. as of right now im still waiting for a reply from gcg. like i said, this is just something i came across and entailing the idea of doing this but not quite sure what route im going yet.

can you guys recommend me some specific turbos that would put me in my goal hp range? what do u guys think about the direct fit turbos from jgy customs? theres 3 different ones at the same price, i dont even know the differences...

up to your budget, but i suggest looking at : gt35r, or the lesser expensive and proven sc61, some of our nico members run this turbo on their rb.

[imotion s14]

My $450 new Holset

I been trying to find one for cheap on ebay but I never see them go for less than 300.. where are you sourcing these at?

[BoostFab]

I been trying to find one for cheap on ebay but I never see them go for less than 300.. where are you sourcing these at?

check out Goldfarb & Assoc. 301-770-4514 ; they have a large range of Holset turbos; I got my HX52 from them a while back.

[Cjmartz2k]

Yup, that's who I go through. His name is SaulG on ebay. Just search for holset, and find his seller name from the 30 or 40 results that come up. They are T3 flange, and I have bolted up a HX40 to a stock mani (off the car), but I'm not sure if a HX35 will clear also. I'd guess yes though. Now whether it'll fit down beside the motor is a different story.

[l0nestar]

Boy did this thread go to hades...

ANVIL,what are you looking for?

[ANVIL]

im looking to upgrade my turbo. overall goal is around 400-450 whp. i know i will need supporting mods but just trying to pick the right turbo for me. i dd the car in the summer and drag race it pretty often. looking to get low 12's or better being in my goal whp. i would like something that would require less modifying to get the turbo to fit. direct fit would be ideal, thats why i started this thread with the idea of a rebuilt stock turbo. also something that spools quicker for rolling start racing. budget wise im pretty open but would like to keep the turbo itself between 800-1200ish because i still would have to at least buy new injectors and then get it re-dyno tuned.

[eh?]

http://www.mjmturbos.com/Rb25det.htmhtt ... ndpage.htm

Dunno how much it costs though.. The GCG turbo has gotten way too expensive in the past few year due to the exchange rates. I think you're better off buying an sc61 and having a shop make a new DP for you. I'm sure it will work out cheaper.

[ANVIL]

http://www.mjmturbos.com/Rb25det.htmhtt ... ndpage.htm

Dunno how much it costs though.. The GCG turbo has gotten way too expensive in the past few year due to the exchange rates. I think you're better off buying an sc61 and having a shop make a new DP for you. I'm sure it will work out cheaper.

thats what im leaning toward. im still planning on picking up craz4240's high flow possibly, he said he was going to dyno it first.

wheres a good place to pick up an sc61? what trim and a/r would be best for me? i dont really understand them too good...