Rear sway bar question. Q45 1995

[louiegz]

I'm looking to get the rear sway bar and I'm doing some reserch. I've herd mention on the forum that you can buy the Rear Stabilizer Kit - Q45 '90-'96 new on http://www.infinitipartsusa.com for $261.78. I was looking on Pinnacle Nissan/Infiniti Online Parts Warehouse http://www.nissanparts.org and they sell the bar and all the parts. I droped the parts guy an email and he said the part were...

1 bar 143.162 bushings 3.23/each2 brackets 2.80/each4 bolts .87/each

That totals to $158.70. A savings of $103.08. I'm wondering if the cheaper kit is complete. What do you guys think? Does it sound complete?

[elwesso]

Im not sure, but Ive dealt with Joe enough to know that he WONT cut any corners and Ill get the right thing first time..... No questions asked.... Maybe that other one is better, but I couldnt tell you.....

[maxnix]

I'm looking to get the rear sway bar and I'm doing some reserch. That totals to $158.70. A savings of $103.08. I'm wondering if the cheaper kit is complete. What do you guys think? Does it sound complete?

Not when you count the links and rod ends.

[louiegz]

Im not sure, but Ive dealt with Joe enough to know that he WONT cut any corners

Hey Wes, witch one is Joe? http://www.infinitipartsusa.com or http://www.nissanparts.org? I'm still a newbee here and I don't know who's who.

[elwesso]

infinitipartsusa.com

You should know that by your 10th post..... !!!

[Partsman1usa]

louiegz,

I looks like the end links were missed in that quote. The actual price $223.62.

Thanks

[Rex]

I'm looking to get the rear sway bar and I'm doing some reserch. I've herd mention on the forum that you can buy the Rear Stabilizer Kit - Q45 '90-'96 new on http://www.infinitipartsusa.com for $261.78. I was looking on Pinnacle Nissan/Infiniti Online Parts Warehouse http://www.nissanparts.org and they sell the bar and all the parts. I droped the parts guy an email and he said the part were...

1 bar 143.162 bushings 3.23/each2 brackets 2.80/each4 bolts .87/each

That totals to $158.70. A savings of $103.08. I'm wondering if the cheaper kit is complete. What do you guys think? Does it sound complete?

Call Joe (infinitipartsusa <- NICO site sponsor) and let him know you're a NICO member for a discount over the online pricing.

Also, do some searching for "sway bar" and Q45Tech. He notes that adding the rear sway bar without installing the smaller front bar will not give the desired/designed results.

[louiegz]

adding the rear sway bar without installing the smaller front bar will not give the desired/designed results.

Ah Rex, you may be right, but here inlies the problem. Having to get the 28mm front bar that Q45tech says is the way to go adds to the expence of the upgrade, so here is my question. Will it be better to get the rear bar and not change the front, or not add the rear bar at all? Because after I do the Tokicos, the tension rods, bushings and whatever else can go wrong with a 9 year old car, I'm going to have to live in a van by the river. I'd do the search of the older post myself, but the search box dont seem to be working right. I cant get anything past Dec 10th for some reason. I've read that the 28mm bar is favored than my 29mm bar with the rear bar, but what is the worst that can happen if I leave the 29mm in place? Will the car become undrivable? If I have to change the front one also, then I wont put in the rear one until I have the desire to spend the money on the front one also.

[AZhitman]

Just do the rear one - You'll be fine.

You can do some fine tuning later, which involves loosening up the front a little and letting it move a fraction more.

I, too, am preparing to install the 20mm rear bar on my 95 touring Q. With the Eibachs, Tokicos, all new bushings, upper links, tension rods, and fat tires already in place, it should be a handling mofo.

[DAEDALUS]

Just to add my $.02, what about the end link bushings? There are 8 of them I believe.

[maxnix]

The 20 mm rear makes a lot of difference, even with the stock front bar. There is just less understeer witht the t front bar.

There are bushings and attachment hardware for the links.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45

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[Rex]

...I'd do the search of the older post myself, but the search box dont seem to be working right. I cant get anything past Dec 10th for some reason...

I'm feeling ya here

...what is the worst that can happen if I leave the 29mm in place? Will the car become undrivable?...

No it won't be undrivable, but I'd have to see Q45Tech's old post to see if it would not be better than no rear at all. AZ seems to think it would be better, see if Q45Tech has anything to say.

No need to spend the $ for little/no improvement.

[maxnix]

What Dennis said is that the G50 will be more neutral with the smaller t model front bar, not that the rear a bar would not improve the standard G50.

OK, I am going to start posting pop quizzes on Q45tech posts for you guys.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45

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[Rex]

Okay, I did the manual search, ugh.

Read Q45Techs posts

[Q45tech]

Changing the front bar [from 29 to 28mm=13%] is the functional equivalent of increasing the rear 20mm bar to something like a 20.6125mm bar.

The total front stiffness: springs and bar could decrease by up to 6.5%.............more likely 4-5%. Not really noticeable in amount of front body sway. BUT feelable in the steering wheel.

Do the rear bar first and the lowering springs only if you absolutely have too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even though I have them I keep wishing I had never lowered the Q as the gain [from the springs] doesn't cover up the ride deficit and the camber problems...............not to meention the faster shock/tire wear.

[elwesso]

So is there going to be a profitable difference from the stock front bar, the 20mm rear bar, and the stock springs... Would it be worth the money and effor put forth?

[HeavyDuty]

Because after I do the Tokicos, the tension rods, bushings and whatever else can go wrong with a 9 year old car, I'm going to have to live in a van by the river.

LOL, nothing to contribute to the conversation, but I feel your pain.

[louiegz]

Okay, I did the manual search, ugh.

Read Q45Techs posts

Thanks for the manual search. This search thing is becoming a real pain in the ***.

[Partsman1usa]

louiegz Give me a call Tuesday at 1-888-998-9800 ext 2404.

We are the oldest Infiniti and Nissan parts website on the net an really want to help you wade through this miriad of information. I am extrememly sorry that there was a mis-comunication on the earlier price for the complete sway bar setup. But we will make it right for you!!

Pinnacle Infiniti / Nissan

[louiegz]

Do the rear bar first and the lowering springs only if you absolutely have too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even though I have them I keep wishing I had never lowered the Q as the gain [from the springs] doesn't cover up the ride deficit and the camber problems...............not to meention the faster shock/tire wear.

You know Qtech, I'm glad you said that about the lower springs. I wasn't sure if I wanted to go that far with the suspension. I'm not crazy about how a lowered car looks and, as you said with the camber and tire wear problems, who needs more expence. Living here in the Northeast, with potholes and snow, the last thing you want is a stiff, low car. Sometimes, if the snow was too high, the Q did better than my FWD 1994 Honda Accord that is so low to the ground compared to the Q. Yea, and if you get lowering springs for the Accord, they lower the car by 2" to 3". In real world driving, thats just crazy. So the way that it looks now, I will stay with stock springs, Get the Tokico Blues, and get the rear sway bar. By the way, how do you know when your stock springs are bad?

[maxnix]

Who was looking into the 15%- 20% stiffer stock height springs from Coils Spring Specialties ? 1qkser?__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45

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[Q45tech]

Stiffer springs at the same ride height don't help reduce the center of gravity so the tire loads are the same.......No GAIN! other than less sway but that what you use sway bars for.

Because of the short right angle arms on the front and rear sway bars and the fact both bars couple in the middle of the lower a arm............you get a weird situation............stiff bars but lose 75% of the stiffness getting it to the wheels.

The bars 29/28 and 20mm are really too stiff to be coupled directly to the suspension arm! Thus lots of rubber isolation is added to allow slop in the 1st 1" of wheel travel [typical street bump] that means 1/4" of bushing compression before the bar moves ANY.

The rear is the trickiest as each end link has 4 bushings a total of 8 bushings........each with its own mind.

The trick is to get the bar to behave the same way turning left and right............as half the bushing on the right are pushed down while half the bushings on the left are pushed up and the converse in turning the other way!

If you substitute hard urethane the side to side normalizes as there is no or little slop but the bar action and road vibration gets very very harsh...............maybe half and half .........bottom bushings urethane and top bushings oem rubber.

On the front you only have 2 per side so keep the oem rubber.

The front and rear end links are threaded only enough to create the factory slop [amount of compression on bushings]. Unfortunately the bushings wear and the no action distance increases.

My solution is to place metal washers between the nuts and bushing cup to add more compression as they wear [get deformed]...........don't go overboard as the slop is very small......remember 1" of wheel out of 3.5" total is 0.25" of bar movement..............divide that by 4 or 8 and you understand the fine range we are dealing with...........0.03-0.06".

This bushing wear is why a old car feels old and new bushings return some of the as new feeling.

Adding a rear sway bar means the owner MUST become involved with their car BECAUSE they have the ability to set things to suit their situation..........up to 30%* more rear roll stiffness with a 20mm rear bar.

* no one achieves this with rubber bushings..........with end link tread limitations maybe 15%.

* the reason the 15.9mm t rear bar is not recommended is that at 1/4 the stiffness most can't feel a 3-4% change.........which was enough for the factory with the 4% reduction in front and the toe changes with HICAS.

Hopefully members can see how the softer front bar [13% alone] mixes with the unchanged front springs to only reduce the combine front by half [6.5%].

You take the combined front and rear stiffness and create a ratio, this ratio is then compared with the front and rear sprung weight.

A perfectly neutral car would have the front roll stiffness equal to the front weight ratios............54% front weight with 54% of the total roll stiffness in the front. Unfortunately the weight changes with acceleration, braking , and turning!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For safety [in untrained drivers and different tires and tire wear and different loads [passenger and trunk and fuel levels] weather conditions etc.............the standard Q [no rear bar and sloppy front bar bushings] is 57%>70% as the G forces increase.

The 20mm rear bar will drop it [front roll stiffness ratio] to 54-55% at low G rates and maybe 60% at or near the limits of 0.7 G if the front bushings are not too tight. The tighter the front bushings the more the front bar will negate the addition of the rear bar.

Since we are stuck with non adjustable bars all we can do is vary the bushing stiffness and the range where the bars do little in the first 1" of body roll.

I keep trying to streamline the discussion and chose clearer words

[maxnix]

Stiffer springs at the same ride height don't help reduce the center of gravity so the tire loads are the same.......No GAIN! other than less sway but that what you use sway bars for.

But a firmer ride with less suspension travel for a given input and better behavior when loaded is what I would hope to accomplish. The car is a little too vague when fully loaded with four people on board.

Like you say, for sway control, it's the bars. But for greater control and load capacity, it's a higher spring rate with the appropriate shocks. We have the blues at 15% stiffer than stock blacks, let's get the springs to match them when they are new.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45

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