Rear subframe help please

[allenms240]

Well I was driving down a local road, going 60, and I noticed that my rear end swayed a lot. A lot more than it should. When I got home I took a look at the rear subframe, I noticed that there was was about a quarter inch go from the chassis to the subframe, around the area where you bolt it up to the chassis. I tried to tighten all bolts by jacking up the subframe by the diff and removing the said slack, but they were still tight and gap remained after I dropped it. Is this gap normal? what would cause this sudden problem for the rear subframe to sway like this?

I also noticed that the collars (they go on right before the final nut to finish bolting the subframe to chassis) was visible. I think, iirc, that the subframe was supposed to 'hang' over those collars.
Is this why my car could be swaying at moderate speeds; That gap from the chassis to the subframe?


Let me know if you need any clarification, ANY help is appreciated and I need to get this fixed asap, doesn't feel safe at all.

[Razi]

Yeah, there is about a quarter inch gap between the subframe bushing and the chassis.

Since it's rubber, and old, it usually starts getting sloppy though.
Buy some PoweredByMax subframe collars and that should take away some of the slack.

[allenms240]

I have the energy suspension subframe inserts, i've had them for a few months now. But Razi, do YOU think that's why it's swaying so much? I really can't think of anything else it could be. Its a scary feeling.

[Razi]

Hmm.
You replaced the whole subframe bushing with Energy Suspension bushings?
That should be okay then.

How are your other suspension bushings?

Do you have pictures of your installed subframe bushings?

[allenms240]

They are just the bushing inserts, slide ride in. I think the PBM ones would do much more justice. All other rear bushings were done with the master kit from energy suspension except the ones on the spindle. I bought Circuit sports RUCA and Toe arms so those have heim joints. They all look alright. One of the inserts didn't go in all the way, so I kinda forced it in, but that can't be the problem because it was fine after the install. It just feels loose. I have no idea what else it could be.

[homeslicej2]

Could be that the Energy Suspension inserts stiffened the center of the bushing and now the tops see more movement (subframe collars should remedy that) or even more likely since you've changed so many suspension pieces, you have a bad rear alignment. After i installed a bunch of new arms and set the final height on my coils, the backend would act squirrely at moderate speeds. The printout showed seriously negative toe-out in the back when i brought it in for alignment.

[Razi]

+1 to everything homeslice said.

[allenms240]

Right, and I had it tuned so it would ride well after i installed my arms. Just all of a sudden it started happening.

[Razi]

"tuned" as in alignment?

[Shadow Drifter]

Put enegry suspension bushing in there and you will love the car that much more I have had them on all my 240's and the ride really isn't changed much but MUCH MUCH MUCH stiffer

[allenms240]

"tuned" as in by my eyes. I did NOT get it professionally done. But it handled well after that.
How much do alignments run?

[Razi]

Depends on the place.

They usually try to charge a ton if you have aftermarket suspension arms though.
Look for places with reasonable prices.

[allenms240]

The local shop here sends people to a brake masters with a referral from the shop. My buddy got his done for fifty bucks and his car had alot of suspension. So we'll see. I just hope this fixes my problem. Ill be buying to PBM or SPL parts subframe collars and then ill get the alignment. Just take local roads no where above 40mph. Do you know where I can get the collars? I looked but PBM was out of stock and I couldn't find anywhere else.
Thanks for all the help guys.

[homeslicej2]

I brought my 240 to the local Nissan dealership. $89.99 for a 4-wheel alignment on a Hunter alignment machine that's supposed to be one of the best to use. I have Stance coilovers, SPL front tension tods, RUCAs, toe-rods, and traction rods. Just ask for a printout of the before and after with the alignment. My previous "eyeball" alignment caused the really bad toe out and squirrely behavior. My car drives straight and true now. Also, if you just want subframe collars, tons of companies make them. Any of NICO's vendors could offer you several options.

[allenms240]

Fixed. The subframe spacers fixed the rear sway.

[Razi]

Nice.
Did the spacers add any extra noise to the cabin?

I thought about getting them but the extra cabin noise is putting me off it.

[allenms240]

When I'm going slow through some parking lots, when I go through dips, I can hear some clunking from the spacers. I also hear a faint whine as the motor revs with the drive-train. I don't have a welded right now, but I'd imagine the nice to be more with one. But to be honest. A quiet cabin? That boat sailed when I bought the car. Lol. Ksport coils are pretty stiff and roads aren't too nice around campus so I'm used to it really. I like it. It also stiffened it up of course. I can't really test it until the clutch breaks in, don't wanna blow anything up now but I'll get back to you in a week or so.

[Razi]

Okie dokie!!

[homeslicej2]

I thought about spacers too, but am also worried about too much drivetrain noise coming into the cabin. That's partly why I'll probably end up getting the Peak Performance polyurethane ones. I bit softer than aluminum. I hope to get some NISMO subframe bushings installed later this year though, so I'm holding out on the spacers.

[Razi]

Yeah I've been thinking about those too.
I don't track the car so having poly spacers should be good enough for daily driving.

[homeslicej2]

Definitely. Plus, I really feel that if we want to keep our cars for the long haul (I do) then we can't run all heim joints, solid bushings (alum.) bc it'll fatigue the chassis over time. I feel that poly, or even better imho, rubber bushings are needed in some places to allow some give, esp. on a street car. I plan on having NISMO bushings installed in the front & rear LCAs, Rear spindles (on my spare alum Z32 ones that I want to install this summer) & the subframe to allow some of that give. I think that these, along with my heim jointed SPL arms, will give a good ride & good control on a car that isn't drifted & will see minimal track use (auto-x, HPDE events, etc.)

[Razi]

I daily this car so I want to keep it comfy and not sound like somethings broken whenever I drive it.

[allenms240]

Me too, but meh, guess I'm just used to it.

[allenms240]

Sigh...I lied. Went on the highway, and the sway is still there.
So until I get an alignment, any suggestions/ideas/explanations as to why the suspenstion is swaying??

[allenms240]

Resolved - Rear drive side lower control arm ball joint was coming off the spindle. The bolt was loose because I forgot to put in a cotter pin.
Lesson - Cotter pins are there for a reason.

[LoserCard]

I really don't mean to be mean but... DUH! GJ getting it fixed though. Even through you fixed it you probably still should get an alignment. You might be wearing out your tires prematurely.

[allenms240]

No I deserved that haha.
I hit a curb a while back, a WHILE back. And I called my buddy to bring me down a spare RLCA, we replaced it but didnt have a cotter pin on us at the time (old one was hard enough getting out, let alone trying to put it back in) so I just kind of forgot about it.

I was going to actually adjust my ride height and then take it in for an alignment today when I fixed it. I was taking of the wheel, and I noticed the whole hub was moving. Further inspection of spindle moving freely showed the RLCA bolt was loose. I tightened it, threw a cotter pin on it, and took it in for an alignment. 60$ for a 4 wheel alignment at brakemasters. Now I'm quite content with my car that I've fixed all problems that happened to occur at once( overheating due to pinhole leaks, worn out clutch, this suspension problem) All why dailying it

Thanks for all the help Nico