Really rich at WOT at like 10 on my aem.

[zerepdivad]

Ok so a bit ofa background. I have a 90 with 93 dohc ka-t. Your basic stock internals setup. emance ecu, z32,dw440's, t3 etc...I've been running the car for about 1200 miles turboe'd now. About 500 on 5psi with no wideband, and about 700 on 9psi with no wideband. I know that was kind of dumb and i 'm lucky it still runs....

Well today i got in my aem uego and these are my afrs...crusiing 14-15ishidle 18 or soWOT 10 every single time every gear.

From my understanding that is way too rich and at wot i hear you ideally want to be around 12 or so? I also have an safc that i am going to hook up and try and lean it out a bit, but am unsure as to where to start with that. I also have a nismo adjustable fpr and i tried turning that down to no avail. I didn't expect it to work but i figured it was worth a shot....

So my question is mainly is there an "easy" way to lean it out with the safc or is there like a nice tutorial on nico that i haven't seen? I know i can be getting a lot more out of this since i'm sure i'm losing a lot running this damn rich. Any and all help is appreciated.thanks

[kouki_hmongster]

that is wayyyy tooo rich..check to see if your oil have fuel in it first and change the oil if you smell gas....i say send it back to jason for a retune, include an afr X rpm chart...i dont know how timing is but if it's good enough then you can use afcneo to fine tune now that you have a wideband.....the neo have 16 point fuel correction so you can put it on a dyno so that you have a rpm x afr graph to tune off....just tune the high throttle and leave the low throttle alone since it's already around 15...that is pretty good....

if you have z32 maf then for hotwire set it to 2in 2out......since the ecu is already tune for z32maf....

[480sx]

My post got deleted on this borrowed Vista lap top(nets down at my house) so im just gona do the abridged version..

Do not run your car at those AFRs, you will destroy your whole motor, turbo included.

Lots of people have problems with Emance, although some of his work is ok.

SAFC will work, but will also change your timing values. Because of this, i wouldnt run more than 7-8 psi of boost till you got a good tune. Go back and forth with Jason till he gets it right.

[zerepdivad]

I thought that an safc didn't mess with timing at all? From what i've read it's just moreso to adjust fuel? Or did hear or misread? Yeah i just emailed jason but i saw a post on ka-t.org that he's not been responding to peoples emails lately..... so i guess i'll see how that goes. oddly enough though i haven't been fouling plugs left and right like i'd imagine with those afrs at wot.

[neverlift]

does aem need to be calibrated? like an lc1...

that sounds strange, do you have black smoke coming out te exhaust, does the car feel like it needs to be leaned out(ie power down, black plugs)?

[zerepdivad]

[QUOTE=neverlift] does aem need to be calibrated? like an lc1...

that sounds strange, do you have black smoke coming out te exhaust, does the car feel like it needs to be leaned out(ie power down, black plugs)?[/QUOTE

that's the weird part... no black smoke and it feels "strong" but not as strong as it should.... I'll have to look and see if maybe it does need calibration....

[480sx]

Pretty sure they auto calibrate. The newer version of the LM-1(LC1) also auto calibrates, thats pretty much old school tech.

SAFC will mess with your timing values as well, thats why it pops so many motors. What it does is simple changes the MAF reading. So its telling the ECU that less air or more air is coming in. This changes the timing maps as well as fuel maps.

[kouki_hmongster]

I thought that an safc didn't mess with timing at all? From what i've read it's just moreso to adjust fuel? Or did hear or misread? Yeah i just emailed jason but i saw a post on ka-t.org that he's not been responding to peoples emails lately..... so i guess i'll see how that goes. oddly enough though i haven't been fouling plugs left and right like i'd imagine with those afrs at wot.

No, afc dont have timing control thats why it isnt safe to run afc w/ tuned ecu. to be safe you would probably retard timing a bit from the dizzy, or dont boost it at all until you get the proper tune...

BTW are you having cold start problems like most of emance guys? something w/ having to hold the gas pedal down for a couple min until the car can idle on its own???

[zerepdivad]

yeah man cold starts are a no go.... i gotta hold the pedal a bit til it warms up then it's smooth. i didn't know this was a common thing?

[StockSucks]

The aem wb does not need to be calibrated the adjustments on the gauge type controller wb are for use with a standalone type ecu like the ems.... also the aem wb will only read to 10 afr its possible you could be even richer but i doubt your not too much richer than that if your not fouling plugs

[WDRacing]

Ok...there's a lot of bad information in this thread.

One thing I'd like to note is that you guys need to slow down and type clear and concise posts, run a spell check if you have...but JESUS...proof read

The SAFC and ALL other piggy back controllers that alter the MAF outputs have a direct effect on the timing curve. No they don't let you adjust the timing, but they do alter the timing map that the ecu uses. When the SAFC tells the ecu that there isn't as much air flowing as there actually is, it results in two things. The ECU lowers the pulse of the injector, hence the ability to tune for larger injectors, and the ECU also ramps up the timing. It does this because it doesn't think the motor is under a high load.

What do we know about turbo's and to much timing? To much timing is always a bad thing. With no timing retard you should never run more then 8 psi. But that's assuming you have a good tune...which in this case remains to be seen.

The Emance ECU should be handling the injectors and the timing. If it's not controlling the fuel, then assume it isn't controlling the timing either. So it appears that your chip inside the ECU didn't get flashed properly. OR it did get flashed and you have a leaky injector or two. The dude that invented side feeds should be found and murdered...they suck.

What would I do next?

Pull the fuel rail, pop out the injectors and check the orings, fix anything broken, slather them in Vaseline...how much? When you think you've put on to much, add a little more you can always clean up the mess after.

Pull the plugs, check the gap, clean them with brake cleaner and a brass bristled brush, reinstall them.

Check the fuel pressure if possible.

Change oil, use the cheapest 5W-30 you can find.

Turn the key to ACC mode, check for leaks.

Start car, verify Afrs, shut off car after a minute or two max. Pull the plugs, see if any are black. If one or two are black then that's the troubled cylinder. Could be no spark, weak spark, bad injector. If they are ALL black again, then the problem is across the board...obviously

Do that, then post the results.

WD

[zerepdivad]

pulled my plugs and none of them were black. So i pulled my injectors and redid the seals and nothign really changed. Afrs still at 10 in boost.

So last night i hooked up my safc and reduced it slowly in the hi throttle setting from 3-7 grand little by littler until i got to 10% and my afrs are a bit better now in boost and it feels stronger now, my afrs are now low 11's high 10's.

I've read that idealy i want to be in the high 11's low 12s for afrs in boost at wot? Is that true?

[480sx]

Yea thats about right. I tune for 12.7 transitioning from vac to boost, 11.7ish in boost, and 15ish cruising. Idle usually is around 16 or so, really as lean as i can get it without it stumbling.

[zerepdivad]

Yea thats about right. I tune for 12.7 transitioning from vac to boost, 11.7ish in boost, and 15ish cruising. Idle usually is around 16 or so, really as lean as i can get it without it stumbling.

ok cool. So now for tuning the idle do i mess with the "lo throttle" i assume? Until it's about 16 then? I'm getting about 14.5-15ish cruising so i'm good on that.

[WDRacing]

Low throttle is for off boost tuning...with that said you still want the same target AFR's for off boost as you do on boost. The best power is made at 12.5 at WOT...this is the same for NA or FI. The tricky part is always part throttle tuning.

With throttle tip in, things will get slightly richer then 14.5...say 13. You'll want things to read 14.5-15 when idling or when cruising. Then you want things to slowly richen up as you apply throttle. Timing is a bit trickier, but you don't have to worry about that

On boost at WOT, try for 12.5, part throttle = 13, cruise or idle = 14.5-15 FTMFW

[480sx]

Idk i like to tune on the conservative/rich side. If you tune for 12.5 you have no margin for error, have a hot day and you can run lean and get detonation. 12.5 is pretty much the max limit for in boost AFR's and i would give yourself at least .5 of a safety window. Most street tunes are not designed to push the limits of the motor, you want a reliable and safe tune IMO.

[lrb_2000]

I've been running 15.5-16 cruising, 14.7 idle and 12.5 in full boost 15psi.. leaning out to 13.5 by 6500 rpms.. It pulls like crazy.. and I get 30mpg+ on the highway lol.

My emance ecu doesn't make since. I have to run 1 in 9 out on my safc II.. and usually have to mess with my decel air settings to get it to idle right until the engine is warm..

I'd say just use your safc to tune, but probably only your high map it sounds like.. I had to completely tune my car with my safc after getting my emance ecu.. seems kinda pointless..