Re: Pirelli Cinturato P7 All Season Plus

[antzrus]

I need new tires. I've loved the Conti DWS, but I'm tired of replacing them every 30k miles. I've looked at the Tire Rack's survey's and the Pirelli Cinturato P7 All Season Plus looks good on paper. Anyone on this list have any experience w/them on an '06 M35/M45 or other year?

The major issue I'm afraid of is tramlining. The DWS got rid of it for me. Tramlining was murder with the OEM Goodyear RSA's in the new '06 M's. Many of the other name brands apparently were not as good when the RSA's were replaced by others. I haven't used any other tires but the DWS since then.

Anyone with the Pirelli Cinturato P7 All Season Plus?

[szh]

I doubt these Pirelli tires will last more than 30k miles either, by the way! That seems about the right amount for our heavy cars for typical All-Seasons today. Some years ago, the Michelin Pilot Sport AS tires I tried one time lasted even less ... around 20k to 25k as I recall. Which was also the same for the Conti DWS of the time.

My last set of Michelin Pilot Super Sports went almost 30k - love these tires, but they are more expensive. Needless to say, I put them on again, and on my wife's car - she loves them too.

Z

[Ilya]

I'm rocking these tires now on my new 20's. So far, so good. Quieter than the DWS' and definitely softer (ride better). However, I haven't noticed that much drop off in handling, at least on the exit ramps I've tried. In fact, if I had to guess, I think these 'turn in' faster than the DWS'.

As of right now, for me, C7's > DWS hands down. The only thing I wish it had was a better tread design that looked more sports. These are as touring looking as touring gets.

[EniGmA1987]

Those Cinturato P7's should last like you want.

30K miles seems pretty good for any kind of performance tires, especially DWS. Both myself and another guy I know were replacing DWS tires every 20K miles because they just wear out so quick.If you really want long lasting tires you will have to sacrifice performance, no other way about it. You just need harder tread. Look at some grand touring tires rated for something like 75K miles. That should last you 50K miles or so in the real world.

EDIT: seems those P7's are actually grand touring tires already.

These ones might also work ok, but probably wont last quite as long as the Pirelli's:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp ... toModClar=
But since they cost $80 less per tire, the 10K miles tradeoff might be worth it.

Then there are these too:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp ... toModClar=

[szh]

30K miles seems pretty good for any kind of performance tires, especially DWS. Both myself and another guy I know were replacing DWS tires every 20K miles because they just wear out so quick.

Yeah. I had the same experience the few times I used the older Continental DWS and the original Pilot Sport A/S ... around 20 to 25k miles (probably changed at the 22k to 23k mark). Mostly highway driving.

Z

[antzrus]

Thanx for responding so quickly guys. It's been a while since I've offered my own "wisdom" herein. Lucky you!

I'm going to go with the P7's. At 68 y/o I don't drive as I used to and hence losing a little or more performance is not an issue for me. Personally, I've lost more performance than I care to relate...

[Ilya]

30K miles seems pretty good for any kind of performance tires, especially DWS. Both myself and another guy I know were replacing DWS tires every 20K miles because they just wear out so quick.

Yeah. I had the same experience the few times I used the older Continental DWS and the original Pilot Sport A/S ... around 20 to 25k miles (probably changed at the 22k to 23k mark). Mostly highway driving.

Z

I actually got like 35-40k out of my last set of DWS. I had them on my 07 for like 10k and then I had them on my 2011 for another 25k or so. I rotated them every 5k or 10k. Kept pressure at like 38psi. Still had some meat on em (maybe another 2-3k) but the rim was bent so it threw off the balance and the tire started to wear unevenly so I bit the bullet and switched to my 20's earlier than I thought I would.

[szh]

I actually got like 35-40k out of my last set of DWS. I had them on my 07 for like 10k and then I had them on my 2011 for another 25k or so. I rotated them every 5k or 10k. Kept pressure at like 38psi. Still had some meat on em (maybe another 2-3k) but the rim was bent so it threw off the balance and the tire started to wear unevenly so I bit the bullet and switched to my 20's earlier than I thought I would.

Yeah, I think they were able to increase the longevity in later generations of the DWS - my experience was with the first set of Continental DWS when they came out. I tried them after switching from a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S (also early versions).

Now, I use Michelin Pilot Super Sports and really love them. Super quiet, exceptional handling and braking in dry and wet, and just an awesome all-round tire except not in snow or even close to freezing conditions, of course).

I'm on my second set. I recently also put them on my wife's 2011 Acura TSX and she is ultra-pleased too. All the dartiness and misbehavior of the OEM tires (some other Michelin model) have been completely eliminated. Now her car has excellent performance, is very quiet and tracks straight without a hint of crazy behavior on the roads.

A bit more expensive a tire, but well worth it in my opinion!

Z

[Larz]

The reviews on Tire Rack consistently rate the DWS as lower in handling and response. NOT "bad" in any category, just lower than Pirelli and Michelin. I went from Michelins to the Hankook S1Noble2 tires and I am also on my second set on a second M. I like them and they come as close as possible to my usual Michelin Pilot Super Sports. definitely NOT equal, but a very close second. They have only been in snow once on a trip up north and handled perfectly (they were also new at the time). They usually see summer temps (South Florida) and very very deep water and heavy rain. In these conditions they are amazingly close to Michelins and very quiet.

[szh]

Good! How many miles do you have on the Hankooks so far?

My question is because it would be good to compare to original when they start getting down to near 4/32 to 5/32 of tread (last third of their life). With the exception of some of the high-end Michelin tires, most brands and models (including some of the lower-end Michelin's too) do not do as well as when they are new.

What impresses me about the Pilot Super Sports is how good they continue to behave near the end of the tread life - not like new, but close to it - in terms of noise, ability to hold a balance, performance, etc. This is generally an indication that the metal (and other material) belts are pretty intact inside the rubber, and have not broken due to the continuous flexing of the tire after many miles!

Would be good to know how the Hankooks stand up to miles and time!

Z

[antzrus]

I finally put on a set of the Pirellis. They looked excellent in the Grand Touring ratings on TireRack, and they perform as such on my M. The major issue I was fearing and not rated was the issue of tramlining. The DWS discontinued it vs the OEM Goodyear RSA's that caused so much havoc for the '06-'07 M's (i.e. "steering rack" probs etc., etc.).

There is no tramlining on the Pirellis! I do notice when I take a turn sharply and swiftly tho, there is some squealing, which was not so on the DWS even after 30k miles. Hell, I'm older and wiser now; don't drive as I used to...

I'll wait for the snow to see just how they do to get a better idea how useful they will be over all. So far, I'm impressed.

[Larz]

Hello Mr Antz! So glad you are pleased with the Pirelli's. I remember you had quite a time with tramling in the past, so it must feel great to know that after dropping some money, you didn't take a step back. As for the squealing, slow it up, mate! LOL Seriously, though, the difference in the tread compound, sidewall stiffness, and tread design between ultra high performance and grand touring tires will likely be noticeable depending how you drive. It's a different type of tire and according to the 'experts', the ride should be more on the comfort side than the sport side.
I'm still quite happy with my second set of Ventus S1noble2's, but they barely have 8,000 miles so the real test will come after at least 5,000 more miles.
Please let us know how these Pirelli's work in the snow. They are standard on Jaguars, so I would expect they do well in all conditions.

[ericthered]

I've been totally happy with my Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 (W rated) chosen for their wet traction.

I looked on tire rack, the new Pirelli (like the Michelin) are load range 100, a very good thing - in my experience higher load ranges translate to longer lasting belts on tires that are pushed. I suspect the Pirellis are a bit quieter, too. Good luck with them, and let us know about your wet performance experience.

[szh]

I've been totally happy with my Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 (W rated) chosen for their wet traction.

Good tires, yes!

I looked on tire rack, the new Pirelli (like the Michelin) are load range 100, a very good thing - in my experience higher load ranges translate to longer lasting belts on tires that are pushed.

Yes, indeed. The high load index generally means a stronger tire including the side-wall, etc. The belts do not get stressed as much, and less likely to fray or break inside due to miles ...

Even though the M is rated for 94 or 95 load index, getting 98 or 100 is a Good Idea™!

Z

[Larz]

The Ventus S1noble2 is rated at 100 W and UTOG is 500 AA A. Size 255/40/19's. Tried other brands in the past (Cooper, General, Goodyear OEM, Continental) but always went back to Michelins and sometimes even after just a few thousand miles because I was that disappointed. When new, the Ventus were almost silent. After 8,000 miles, they are no longer silent, but just barely audible on certain road surfaces and still more quiet than Michelins. Still handle perfectly in wet and dry and have 10/32 tread left. As I have said before, they do not handle as well as any Michelin, but they are ever so close, and I don't miss my Michelins as all. None of the other brands I tried came anywhere near this close to a Michelin. The true test will be longevity. Michelins (for me) handled just as well at the end of the tread life as they did when new.

[szh]

Michelins (for me) handled just as well at the end of the tread life as they did when new.

Exactly! My reasons for staying with the Pilot Super Sports I now have, even though the price can be higher than other tires ...

Z

[antzrus]

Hello Mr Antz! So glad you are pleased with the Pirelli's. I remember you had quite a time with tramling in the past, so it must feel great to know that after dropping some money, you didn't take a step back. As for the squealing, slow it up, mate! LOL Seriously, though, the difference in the tread compound, sidewall stiffness, and tread design between ultra high performance and grand touring tires will likely be noticeable depending how you drive. It's a different type of tire and according to the 'experts', the ride should be more on the comfort side than the sport side.
I'm still quite happy with my second set of Ventus S1noble2's, but they barely have 8,000 miles so the real test will come after at least 5,000 more miles.
Please let us know how these Pirelli's work in the snow. They are standard on Jaguars, so I would expect they do well in all conditions.

Hey Larz, been a while for me herein. I retired about 2 yrs ago, bought myself a new '13 RoadTrek 190 P and have been tooling around in it, vs the nowhere to sleep, brew my morning cup of java and nowhere to pee '06 M35x...

I'm really excited about these Pirelli's. They track really true-yes-no-none-nada tramlining. As I've hinted, "performance" at my age is a moot point. They perform just fine for my older spirited style of driving. The real test will be in the snow. I do a lot of snow driving on up to our place at Red Mouintain ski area in BC. I'll report on their snow function as I do drive a bit more aggressive in snow with my 4x4 M than the other vehicles I pass...

[DS2009m35x]

Latest article from Consumers Report:

Performance All-Season Tires

There is a three-way tie for top score between the Continental PureContact, Michelin Premier A/S, and the Pirelli Cinturato P7 All Season Plus. Continental gets to the top of the heap for its strong performance in dry and wet grip, handling, snow traction and a quiet, comfortable ride. Both the Michelin and Pirelli models share many of the same qualities, along with longer tread life. Performance all-season tires come on many newer cars with speed ratings of H (130) and V (149) mph.

Note that I had the Pirelli P7s installed on my M35x last year. Dealer reported at last month's oil change (special: 2 for $39) that all tires had 10 tread depth. I have approx 12k on the tires. For all season tires, I was pleased with traction the few days I drove in snow last winter.

[Larz]

Latest article from Consumers Report:

Performance All-Season Tires

There is a three-way tie for top score between the Continental PureContact, Michelin Premier A/S, and the Pirelli Cinturato P7 All Season Plus. Continental gets to the top of the heap for its strong performance in dry and wet grip, handling, snow traction and a quiet, comfortable ride. Both the Michelin and Pirelli models share many of the same qualities, along with longer tread life. Performance all-season tires come on many newer cars with speed ratings of H (130) and V (149) mph.

Note that I had the Pirelli P7s installed on my M35x last year. Dealer reported at last month's oil change (special: 2 for $39) that all tires had 10 tread depth. I have approx 12k on the tires. For all season tires, I was pleased with traction the few days I drove in snow last winter.

See, this is why I don't bother with Consumer Reports. First of all, I agree that all three of these brands are just fine. However, none of them are classified by the manufacturer as 'performance'. These are basically "touring" tires. Nothing at all wrong with touring tires, they are just a different class and don't provide performance handling - they are designed for comfort and not spirited cornering, etc. The sidewalls are less stiff (for comfort) and they have less grip (less noise) than performance tires.
All three of these manufacturers do make performance tires, but these are not those models. In the performance group it's the Continental Extreme Contact DWS, the Michein Pilot Sport A/S, and the Pirelli P Zero All Season. (also the Ventus S1nobel2 and Bridgestone Pole Posiion). If you are in the market for an actual performance tire, they are, as usual, comparing something else.

[DS2009m35x]

I would agree with your comments. I'm a bit older now and have changed my driving style to a more touring mode (usually) and opted to go with a tire in this category so for me I'm satisfied with my selection so far.
Absolutely determine what category of tire you are looking for first.