Quest for the Most Powerful Stock Turbo Z

[sdhsbaseball]

Here is the compressor map I talked about if you look at the map, as the rpms go up the boost efficiency goes from roughly 20psi at 5k rpm's to a little over 14psi at 7k rpm's and that is on the flow of a stock engine i.e. stock heads and cams. Once you open the heads up and put different cams in there the engine will flow even more and it will be WAY out of the efficiency range. But like always the choice is yours.

[vulcanrush]

sdhsbaseball, i get that, i have jwt550bb turbos (garrett 2560r's?)....and their efficiency range is about 18-to-19-psi

you can call sz or ztuner and ask them, stock turbos shouldn't be run more than 15-psi on a regular basis

[StockTurbosFTW]

Would you guys be happier if I just went with some JWT 700s?

[sdhsbaseball]

sdhsbaseball, i get that, i have jwt550bb turbos (garrett 2560r's?)....and their efficiency range is about 18-to-19-psi

you can call sz or ztuner and ask them, stock turbos shouldn't be run more than 15-psi on a regular basis

I was posting that info in regards to the turbos efficiency range not taking into account that running them higher then 15 on a regular basis will cut the reliability of the turbos down great. So I agree with you completely in that regard.

Would you guys be happier if I just went with some JWT 700s?

The build isn't for us, you should put whatever you want on your car. All we are doing is presenting information to help in your decision, it is ultimately up to you. If I were you for everything that you are doing for the build I would put the EX90 kit from Specialty Z on the car since I have herd quite a few people say they spool the same if not a little fast the the JWT 700's. I know I have the 700's on my car with 2.5" intercooler piping, Ash Massive's, 3"dp, and 3"-2.5" tp and the crazy thing is I dont have dual pop chargers but I couldnt be happier with the spool since it hits hard and fast. So I know once I get the dual pop in there and a little better tune it will be insane.

[vulcanrush]

The build isn't for us, you should put whatever you want on your car. All we are doing is presenting information to help in your decision, it is ultimately up to you. If I were you for everything that you are doing for the build I would put the EX90 kit from Specialty Z on the car since I have herd quite a few people say they spool the same if not a little fast the the JWT 700's. I know I have the 700's on my car with 2.5" intercooler piping, Ash Massive's, 3"dp, and 3"-2.5" tp and the crazy thing is I dont have dual pop chargers but I couldnt be happier with the spool since it hits hard and fast. So I know once I get the dual pop in there and a little better tune it will be insane.

very nice setup that you have.
have you gotten dynoed, you must be in the 500rwhp range, easily.
i have heard about compressor surge with the gt3071 turbos? they're expensive, but i would consider the new garrett gtx turbos ....but they are pretty expensive.

[StockTurbosFTW]

sdhsbaseball, i get that, i have jwt550bb turbos (garrett 2560r's?)....and their efficiency range is about 18-to-19-psi

you can call sz or ztuner and ask them, stock turbos shouldn't be run more than 15-psi on a regular basis

I was posting that info in regards to the turbos efficiency range not taking into account that running them higher then 15 on a regular basis will cut the reliability of the turbos down great. So I agree with you completely in that regard.

Would you guys be happier if I just went with some JWT 700s?

The build isn't for us, you should put whatever you want on your car. All we are doing is presenting information to help in your decision, it is ultimately up to you. If I were you for everything that you are doing for the build I would put the EX90 kit from Specialty Z on the car since I have herd quite a few people say they spool the same if not a little fast the the JWT 700's. I know I have the 700's on my car with 2.5" intercooler piping, Ash Massive's, 3"dp, and 3"-2.5" tp and the crazy thing is I dont have dual pop chargers but I couldnt be happier with the spool since it hits hard and fast. So I know once I get the dual pop in there and a little better tune it will be insane.

I guess one thing is that I want a track and drag car but I want it to be streetable too. I mean the car is at 330 rwhp right now and I think that is pretty fast. Do I really want a 500 or 600 hp car? Also how is the spool on the 700s? What RPM do the boost in and reach full boost?

[StockTurbosFTW]

I was looking at the SZ turbo...I do love SZ but I think I am scared of it...I could always ask Seb about the spool on it. It is quite more expensive than other turbos too...

[sdhsbaseball]

very nice setup that you have.
have you gotten dynoed, you must be in the 500rwhp range, easily.
i have heard about compressor surge with the gt3071 turbos? they're expensive, but i would consider the new garrett gtx turbos ....but they are pretty expensive.

Thanks man I appreciate it, it was dynoed at 424rwhp on a mustang dyno, so add 10-15% for the numbers that most people see on the dyno jet and you are in the ballpark. Some of the reason for it being lower then what it should is the tune in it is a rough tune just to get it running and i still dont have the dual intake kit. Plus every time we try to run full boost of 18psi the clutch starts slipping Ordered a SZ "High 5" and it should be here Friday or Saturday then let the fun begin!

As for the surge with the 3071s were have you herd that from?

I guess one thing is that I want a track and drag car but I want it to be streetable too. I mean the car is at 330 rwhp right now and I think that is pretty fast. Do I really want a 500 or 600 hp car? Also how is the spool on the 700s? What RPM do the boost in and reach full boost?

I know what you mean about thinking stock turboed z is fast thats exactly how I was. The only reason I ended up doing everything was my turbos started smoking under decel and I could never leave it in gear unless i was on the gas. So I said out with the old and in with new turbos, but I wasnt going to put stockers back in, so one thing lead to another and now i have a bunch of new parts.

I was looking at the SZ turbo...I do love SZ but I think I am scared of it...I could always ask Seb about the spool on it. It is quite more expensive than other turbos too...

Heard they spool better then the jwt700s if you have the proper support mods as in 2.5 intercooler piping, dual intake, 3in dp and tp, and bigger intercoolers plus as always have a proper tune. Remember you have to pay to play!

[BigTDogg (MA)]

Wow, I've been sleepin on this thread. I can't quote everything all at once, but I'll summarize here:

Skip the Z1 TBs. They're garbage, and personally I don't trust anything Z1 makes. I'd get these instead, and it'll be what I get when I eventually upgrade my intake and IC tract:

RobZ's 62mm Billet TBs

Nothing wrong with stock turbos, they're great little units, and it's a fun challenge to see what they can do. My comments/suggestions below:

Z1 Stock Turbos IMHO, get new OEM Nissan units from SZ
Z1 Upgraded Throttle Bodies See my note above
SZ Chip (Have) Replace with a custom tune once everything is installed.
Blitz SBC i-D Spec-R Boost Controller Excellent choice. The GReddy you mentioned earlier is probably the Profec Type-S, which I had and loved. It does maintain boost, you just set your desired boost and gain, and it does the rest. As easy as a MBC but as safe and accurate as a EBC. Just need an additional boost gauge because it has zero display
SZ ECU Map Selector Great mod, especially if you have 6 tunes (91, 91+Meth, 93, 93+meth, 100, Valet) Those would be what I would do personally
Snow Performance Stage 2 Boost Cooler Water Injection Kit Meth is good stuff, be sure to run Boost Juice, not windshield washer fluid

To that list I'd add:

NGK Iridium plugs
SZ Coned expansion outlet pipes

Maintenance:

Clean/inspect the fuel pump and tank
Replace fuel filter, regulator and dampener
When you do the timing kit for the new engine:
RameyZ idler studs
Silicone water bypass hoses


Actually just saw you already have the expansion outlets and idler studs.

Skip the Sparco pedals and get them from Autovation.net. Great pedals for less than the Sparcos. I've had them on both my Zs and love them.

IMHO, on the timing belt covers and fan shroud, I'd DIY like I described in your other thread. With time, patience and persistence they'll come out great.

Very nice parts list. Looks very familiar.

My only concern is that if you don't do any of the work how do you expect to keep everything maintained?

$$$

LOL, at least you're prepared. It'll take a lot of money or a lot of time or both, but in the end you'll have a 450-475RWHP car with zero lag. Definitely worth it to me

[vulcanrush]

As for the surge with the 3071s were have you herd that from?

you can search on tt.net, i think if i ever get bigger turbos, maybe z1 675rs or jwt700 gtx turbos

[StockTurbosFTW]

Man I just read through 300ZXttZMAN's (name is Mark right?) thread...I have never actually looked at it before. I get detered by long threads...Man it makes me so anxious but kind of in a bad way. It was almost overwhelming. There is so much being done to that car (stuff that I want to do.) I am so jealous that a bunch of kids are doing that lol. I need some friends like that...

I am thinking I should just beg my buddy to pull the motor or worse yet just drive out to SZ and have them do it. I will just do a couple more of the things and then drive it until I really do need a new motor.

Then I can just start saving up hardcore so I have 20K to drop on it in the future if I can't find friends like that to help me out...

And maybe by that time I will want bigger turbos because I am still leaning towards stockers.

[300ZXttZMAN]

Man I just read through 300ZXttZMAN's (name is Mark right?) thread...I have never actually looked at it before. I get detered by long threads...Man it makes me so anxious but kind of in a bad way. It was almost overwhelming. There is so much being done to that car (stuff that I want to do.) I am so jealous that a bunch of kids are doing that lol. I need some friends like that...

I am thinking I should just beg my buddy to pull the motor or worse yet just drive out to SZ and have them do it. I will just do a couple more of the things and then drive it until I really do need a new motor.

Then I can just start saving up hardcore so I have 20K to drop on it in the future if I can't find friends like that to help me out...

And maybe by that time I will want bigger turbos because I am still leaning towards stockers.

Correct my name is Mark.

LOL that you get turned away by long threads.



Serious talk:
It is slightly overwelming but it will all pay off when I am done... *sighs*

In the begining of my build like right when I first dropped the hammer for $9k on my first invoice of many from SZ it was overwelming then even more overwelming when 6 boxes of parts show up and you realize how much work you actually have to do..

All the mean while I had my engine at some second rate local machine shop which was what accounted for many of my sleepless nights. (Yes sleepless nights as in not being able to go to sleep at all because i'm worried about my engine/parts) So in like december I paid this crappy machine shop for his time to not even complete the job because I didn't trust his work. The next weekend I brought my engine to IPP for them to jump into it Kyle and Brett are awesome. If you ask them a question they don't beat around the bush they answer the god damn question from experience.

That night once I got home after leaving IPP I have never EVER slept so good in my life it was really like a 30lb weight was lifted off my shoulder. My mind was simply at ease...

Bascially you just have to get it done. Myself and 2 of my buddies that you will see throughout my build thread are the ones who physically helped. (tyler the white guy that you see painting my bay and howard the black guy).

I estimated that I have 450+ hours into my build so far and about a hundred left to go (I came up with that number by figuring that we spend 10-15 hours each week). At the end of the day its just labor and following directions. The thing is that I am also a perfectionist if something is not the way I want it then I don't just settle for the way it is I make it right. So things that take some people 6 hours might take me 10 hours for instance when we were prepping my bay for paint. We spent 10 hours taking it apart and cleaning, sanding, and masking using 3 rolls of paper towl and a gallon of some old paint thinner all before the first drop of primer was even mixed.
Also note that when I say hours I mean an hour of nonstop working I factored out the bull s*** periods.

Just because I am doing this massive build doesn't mean I know everything because trust me I don't, however I have learned alot IMHO. But I promise you that you will never learn anything if you don't get your own hands dirty it doesn't matter how much reading you do. Also the people that instantly come right to my mind that have played a significant part in guiding me through my build during all stages were: BigTdogg, NolimitZ32, BartZ32, Nissanfreak, Rare, Vulcanrush, Bernie, IPP, and last but not least SZ.

The way I look at it is that I am roughly 75% the way there and I have 100% of my parts/supplies (100% of the parts if you don't count the things waiting to go to the chromer the only reason why the parts aren't at the chromer yet is because I have a different local machine shop gasket matching my plenum and boring it out for the Z1 TB's)

[vulcanrush]

mark, i still think you should run an ati damper, my friend....but that's just my opinion, and you have much better turbos than i do, too.

[BigTDogg (MA)]

Agreed, cheap insurance at this point.

[DCaff300ZX]

Any update pics Mark?
Hopefully things are still going relatively smoothly!

[300ZXttZMAN]

Yea every thing is still going smooth just slowly inching closer and closer to completion.. I'm saving Up the update room so that I can have a nice solid update each week until completion. Tomorrow I'll post a parts update though.

We can also discuss me going to ATI pulley tomorrow.. Time to go to bed.

[StockTurbosFTW]

Well IMO the key to a good rebuild is to get everything new. No point in putting a new motor in a 20 year old car unless you are going to get new wiring and hoses, ect. I just keep finding more and more stuff and the price tag goes up and up. I mean I am sure I could learn a lot but it's not something I can tackle by myself and like most of you here, I do not trust many of the local places to do the work. I mean I have talked about having IPP build the motor and ship it to SZ (because I was told IPP doesn't install but it sounds like you are saying they do?) and have them put it in. I mean how much is the labor to do that?! I know SZ charges a 2,000 flat rate for an engine pull, which isn't bad, but is only a small part of it. Maybe I just need to get with Kyle and Seb and figure out the best way and get a quote.

I know a couple of the local shops are at least some what familiar with the Z. I have seen a Z at both of their shops. Both have also worked on the new GTR and the NXS. One of the shops built the world's fastest stock motor/stock turbo Evo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzNeQMHv6TQ

The guys know what they are doing as far as cars in general go but obviously they are not Z experts. I got a quote from one of them for the 120K mile kit and an engine pull (They did the engine pull on a Z a couple of years ago) and it was about $650 for the 120K mile kit and they said it ended up being around $2,500 for the engine pull (they did the 120K mile kit on the car during the pull.) I haven't gotten a quote from the other place.

I don't know how much it would cost to drive and stay out in Cali for a bit but I am almost thinking maybe I should just throw all my parts in the car and drive out to Cali next summer and have SZ just pull the motor to do the MSP manis and BDE engine mounts. I guess I could also go with the meth injection with a tune and then just go with that setup until the motor craps out. My compression is at 130 so the motor isn't horrible but it isn't great. Maybe if I just do that I can get another 4 or 5 years out of it and then go big with the built motor and some larger turbos. The whole thing was I didn't want to have to pay labor twice to pull the motor but maybe I should just suck it up...unless I make some friends fast...

[300ZXttZMAN]

IPP does not install the engine they just build them. I don't think you should waste the money by pulling the engine to put upgrades on unless, you are pulling the engine for maintenance as well. I think you are jumping the gun honestly. You should just wait for it to fail. The plus side to that is that you may meet some local friends that can help you which will save you alot of capital. Also you can stock pile parts while you wait.

[StockTurbosFTW]

Yeah, that is what I am hoping...finding some local friends and stock piling stuff. I mean I guess I can still do everything except the manis, meth injection, tune, and motor mounts. My ICs, Piping, and when I get the injectors and throttle bodies can all be done without pulling the motor. I do need to do the 120K mile Kit though...

[BigTDogg (MA)]

LOL @ installing IC pipes with the engine in. If you're planning on pulling the engine at all, do the IC pipes with it out and thank me later. It's a WHORE with the engine in .

An engine pull isn't all that difficult if you have the tools. By tools I mean an engine stand and hoist. You can get the combo from harbor freight for about $300, IIRC. Good time to replace your EFI harness as well.

[StockTurbosFTW]

LOL @ installing IC pipes with the engine in. If you're planning on pulling the engine at all, do the IC pipes with it out and thank me later. It's a WHORE with the engine in .

An engine pull isn't all that difficult if you have the tools. By tools I mean an engine stand and hoist. You can get the combo from harbor freight for about $300, IIRC. Good time to replace your EFI harness as well.

They never said it was easy to do IC piping with the engine in, they said it was possible...

of course it is a good time to do the EFI harness when the engine is out...that is one of the problems I am having...when the engine is out, it's a good time to do EVERYTHING.

Edit:
Since pulling the engine is not hard, if I can't talk my buddy into it I offer to pay the plane ticket for anyone that wants to come here and do it. You can stay at my place and food will be provided...

[StockTurbosFTW]

We just closed on the house yesterday and I was doing some crusing back and forth and I saw this nice view...

[300ZXttZMAN]

Congrads on closing for the house and good morning..

Poor Z.

[StockTurbosFTW]

Congrads on closing for the house and good morning..

Poor Z.

No that Z was fine...if it looks like he has a messed up bumper that is dried water drops on my mirror lol

[300ZXttZMAN]

Hah alright.

[StockTurbosFTW]

So we are finally in the house...It has been a very stressfull few weeks. We had to spend 4,500 bucks on an AC, washer, and dryer...That puts some serious dents into my plans for next summer for the Z but maybe we can make them work.

I still don't have the boost controller installed but hopefully by Friday...
I did just order the AshSpec Intercooler Coupler Adapter Kit so I can at least get my Massives in this summer. I also plan on sticking with the stock wheels for quite a while but want to get them painted. I have a plan for the color but not sure if that will get done this year either...I guess that's life for ya.

[300ZXttZMAN]

Yepp ^

You will have to jump through hurdles every now and then but eventually the waters calm down and its smooth sailing.