Re-Building a VH45DE

[PoorManQ45]

I'm thinking about purchasing Wes' VH45DE.

How much would it cost to rebuild it?

What was/is actually wrong with it? How much would it cost to fix the problem?

Would I be better off to buy a used JDM VH45DE?

[AZhitman]

Pretty-please search on this topic.

If you could FIND a machine shop with the ability to achieve factory tolerances, you couldn't afford it.

The parts alone would cost more than buying a whole running Q.

Yes, a takeout VH would be wiser, still a pricey proposition.

[DAEDALUS]

Pretty-please search on this topic.

If you could FIND a machine shop with the ability to achieve factory tolerances, you couldn't afford it.

The parts alone would cost more than buying a whole running Q.

Yes, a takeout VH would be wiser, still a pricey proposition.

Ditto. It's hard to even measure the tolerances specified, so whether you meet them or not is purely the machinist's word. The car will run if built to SBC tolerances, but probably not for 200,000+ miles. When a VH45 is worn out it's solidly in brand new territory for a lot of cars.

I don't think anyone knows for certain what is wrong with Wes' car, but I would put my chips on spun or destroyed bearing. There are 7 grades of main bearings in the VH spanning all of .0008". .0001" from 1 bearing size to the next. Do you have any idea how small .0001" is? a sheet of paper is about *35* times that measurement in thickness. Think about it long and hard before you open up an engine like this.

[PalmerWMD]

PMQ:

Yes generally it has been accepted that a used take out engine is a lot cheaper than an attempt to rebuild.

We do have a member "forecast" who has done it.He tried very very hard to get it right and the engine appeared to run fine, tho he himself admits likely not to factory tolerances.

T3 is currently doing, what I think amounts to an upper end rebuild-only, on a VH45de as a project.

They may look to sell it, in a month or 2.

Fred...

[AZhitman]

My Q at 105K still has the cross-hatching in the cylinder bores and the cam bearings are still identical to original tolerances.

Wes's Q likely died as a result of oil starvation caused by years and years of poor oil change interval habits.

Point is, the VH45DE does not wear during the normal course of operation, at least for the first 100-200K miles. The peripherals are what does it in: water pump, knock sensors, overheating, etc.

Mine would probably pick up 20hp if it was "broken in". Guess I'll have to wait for 200K for that to happen.

[HeavyDuty]

One thing that may be obvious about their long life is that they labor & lug at low rpms most of the time. Cruising at 2200 rpm on the highway is a huge difference between say, a Honda that spins almost twice as fast.

[AZhitman]

All the more reason for the 4.36 upgrade!

[texasoil]

If Wes' engine needed a crank , bottom end bearings, mains, and at least one rod--what are parts cost? Doubt is you could get parts for less than $1500. I see there is a NEW factory long block on EBAY for $2K . Buy it

[PoorManQ45]

If Wes' engine needed a crank , bottom end bearings, mains, and at least one rod--what are parts cost?

Yeah. If I had to replace any of those parts, I would go with custom made stuff. Does anybody know how much a VH45DE crank shaft goes for? Would it be close to the price of a custom crank? If so, I would have one custom made. I would also have custom Rods made.

I see there is a NEW factory long block on EBAY for $2K . Buy it

I see that too. I don't actually need another engine. I was just thinking about buying it so that I would have a new "toy" to play with. .

Also, I was thinking about buying his transmission. Would a seized/broken rod cause damage to the transmission? This would be another thing for me to mess with . For some reason, I like to "customize" $1500 pieces of equipment . Maybe I could do my own "custom" Level Ten job on it. .

[AZhitman]

Custom crank would cost more than a running Q of that vintage.

And then, it probably wouldn't work, as no one (to my knowledge) has ever made one.

Rods would be cost-prohibitive as well, as "custom-made" ones would cost more than OEM.

transmission should be fine.

[PoorManQ45]

Ok, do you know what the price of the internal components are? I have searched all over the internet, and I can not find any prices.

I think it might be very helpful to everybody if we made a list of prices for the parts on the Q45 engines. Can you guys just post the prices of any of the parts. I'll take all that information and make a list.

[MiniMan]

PoorManQ45... you won't be able to simply "find" parts like that on the net. Everything you're talking about doing is 100% CUSTOM. That means you go out, find a maker of quality pistons/rods/etc and you have them custom make you a set.

As far as I know there were only one or two people who've built up the VH45DE to handle a very significant amount of boost. The only chap I remember doing it is a guy in Australia who made the VH45DE that ran over 1000hp under boost for drag racing. The block can handle it... but who knows for how long. I contacted him for more details and all he had to say was #1. it's a great engine with under-estimated capabilities and #2. it cost a sick amount of money to build. Everything he had done was custom and there was little he left untouched as far as I remember.

Someone should see if they can find him again and get some more details.

Corey

[PoorManQ45]

PoorManQ45... you won't be able to simply "find" parts like that on the net. Everything you're talking about doing is 100% CUSTOM. That means you go out, find a maker of quality pistons/rods/etc and you have them custom make you a set.

Oops. I guess my post was a little unclear.

What I ment was, we should make a list of the prices of the OEM engine parts. Do you guys know any of the OEM prices?

[AZhitman]

PMQ - You must not have looked very hard. All 5 of our OEM parts suppliers are a phone call away, and I know of at least one that will give you access to TradeMotion (industry parts software) to look 'em up yourself.

I know you won't be satisfied with me simply saying "you can't afford it", so I'll refer you to some of Dennis's old posts where he broke out all the costs... Seems to me like the parts tally alone was well over $6K, not counting all the specialty tools that none of us own.

[rsiwicki]

PMQ....I have got an Arizona ocean front house that I would love to sell to you? Interested?

Seriously.....give some f'ing thought to what the hell you say as this whole thing has got to be a joke. If you are as handy as you say you are around the house...why don't you help hire yourself out to those hurricane victims and apply those highly skilled earnings of yours towards doing one of your crazy suggestions. Did you learn your BS ideas from your family as well since you learned to be cheap from them as you so say?

[elwesso]

A new factory long block is about $6000, and then add another 3-4k to make the swap worthwhile.....

Even that would be cheaper than doing a rebuild into OEM tolerances..... I know its been done, but was it best..... probably not...

[szh]

Repeat after me: "Troll", "troll", "troll" ... has it sunk in yet, folks?

Z

[rsiwicki]

"troll".....so true and a waste of NICO's resources

[elwesso]

Tone it down boys..... Remember, he's just as passionate about the Q as everyone else is, maybe for the wrong reasons, but its still there!

No need for excessive bashing, as that is a waste of NICO's space as well!!!

[Q451990]

Tone it down boys..... Remember, he's just as passionate about the Q as everyone else is, maybe for the wrong reasons, but its still there!

No need for excessive bashing, as that is a waste of NICO's space as well!!!

Yeah really... just when all of this was starting to calm down. Does everyone remember Dees? Big firestorm, and now he lurks here and surfaces from time to time as a regular contributing member of NICO-Land.

Heath

[Q45tech]

Other than the common screws and bolts, the least expensive internal part is an $8.00 intake valve stem seal [$128.00 worth].

However World Pac has a complete head gasket set for under $200 oem Japan supplier for Nissan;

Seem to remember the crank as being $2500 retail.

The most we have done is replace 8 intake valves and remove and clean both heads with new gaskets on 2 engines. A few years ago we did replace a single pistion, wrist pin, rod and its bearing on 2 hydrolocked engines. We have mixed and matched good head with good blocks to make a functional engines.

These jobs have all been done over a month or more as spare time work as such they probably were done with more care.

I sure would want one where 25 hours was all that was allotted as the warranty time is for a head change.

About 5 years ago a 250k engine was reringed and rebearinged in total it did last to 430k .

We try to disturb the least amount necessary.

[PoorManQ45]

Ok, I'm sorry if I'm being a "troll".

I guess a re-build is not possible by the "normal" person.

On another note.

What is the thickness of the head gasket? Would it be possible to go with a slightly thinner gasket, to increase compression slightly? Would a slight decrease in the thickness cause the valves to make contact with the piston? Would a thinner gasket be worth while?

[Q45tech]

People who sell gaskets/pistons LIE to you about the gains increasing compression ratio accomplishes. Once you get above 10 CR the next 1 point is only worth an efficiency increase of 1.3%

Is the cost worth 3-4 HP?

Yes the valves will hit the piston at high temps after they expand. The rods stretch and as such the brand new clearances [piston to valve flycuts] become estentially ZERO at 7300 rpm after a few moments.

You can see this by examining pistions and valve edges with a magnifying lens.

[Jesda]

That 430k Q also died in a wreck, not of natural causes, correct?

[IvoryJ30t]

on that 250K refresher, did you guys torque plate and hone the block, and polish the journals?

i remember greg saying that there was still crosshatching in the cylinders when they took the heads off on his motor, and i was wondering if the crosshatching present after 100-150k [provided it is present] would be enough to seat new rings?