rb25 cam options

[advan_s13]

Hello all just need a little advice on cam setups. I am no expert so be easy. I am trying to understand what is all involved with cams and it seems like a whole new science on its own lol. All the options are overwhelming. I have searched this forum and others to see what info I can find. I have a series 1 motor that I am in the process of rebuilding. I am researching and gathering parts/supporting parts to ensure a safe reliable assembly. I guess I will list what I have gathered so far to give you guys a better idea.

Tomei solid lifters
Tomei timing belt
full race twin scroll mani
gt3582r twin scroll 1.06 turbine (t4 turbine not the t3 version)
full race tial mv-r 44mm wastegates
n-1 water pump
ARC front mount
Tial bov
mishimoto radiator (from old ka setup)
electric fans
custom downpipe
test pipe
KTS full titanium 3" catback

I know I need oil pump etc. Bottom end isn't going neglected, just focused on the head right now (one step at a time). I plan on running power FC also. Anyways, my questions come down to durations and lift. The car is not a daily driver. It's just a "fun" car for spirited driving, the drag strip, road course etc. Whatever I want to do with it basically. I like the tomei pro cams and kelford options. I am aware of machine work needing to be done once a certain lift is reached. But I was also wondering if it is better to run different durations on intake and exhaust like kelford offers? What are the benefits or downfalls? Losing some go on the low end of the powerband doesn't really bother me. You have to sacrifice somewhere and I would prefer mid range/top end gains over low end grunt. But I also do not want to lag the turbo to much before boost comes in. I guess I am looking for people to share real time experience with different cam setups to comment on driveability and noticeable changes the cams made to the rb powerband/turbo spool. I'm thinking the twinscroll setup would somewhat help reduce lag time of higher duration cam than compared to a basic turbo setup. Please feel free to send me some links with info on cams etc. I am relatively new to the rb scene and no matter how much you search, someone always has another good place with info. As of now, I am thinking tomei pro cam 270 duration with 9.25 lift. Do these seem like a good choice with my turbo?

Thanks for any info.

[RRRRB]

im using the procam 260 10.25 i think 270's are a little much for a turbo with such a small exhaust wheel and being street driven..

Id also ditch the power FC and use a real EMS such as AEM or haltech.. i have the haltech and its a solid piece

You may want to consider the potential of the RB26 head, as it comes with solid lifters stock and can take 9.25 lift without machining... also able to house bigger cams if you want to go bigger down the road.

[Orthank]

I got the PONCAM A type for my RB25DET NEO (in/ex 252,252 9.15). They are supposed to be better for quick power and acceleration with a smaller turbine. (I am using an HKS GT-RS turbine) B-yype are for larger turbos and procams are for high end power applications from the information I have.

[advan_s13]

Thank you for the responses. I wouldn't mind using the aem unit. But I still haven't decided if I'm going to travel somewhere to have the car tuned or just use local shop (they do the power FC). I will look into the rb26 head that sounds like a good option. I have not done the research on that. Is it as easy as just bolting it on with no other modifications? That just sounds to easy to be true lol. As far as the cams go, I am in limbo between the 260 and 270. Also how did you guys choose your lift? What made you want the 10.25 over a 9.XX lift cam? RRRB do you have any video of your setup?

Thanks

[RRRRB]

The rb26 head will bolt on, i used all the rb25 wiring, just had to lengthen and change a few things on the wiring...

You should know the rb26 head will require a different intake manifold then the 25 due to different flange styles, same with exhuast manifold, however the exhaust side is VERY simular and alot of aftermarket companies offer manifolds flanged for both 25 and 26.

However the head does require some mods to fit, it will require welding to reshape the front cooling port to suit the rb25 block, any good cylinder head repair place will be able to do this.. You also have to plug off the VCT oil port (on the block) which is also easy, just tap the block and use a small grub screw with some loctite.. might not even be needed cause the head gasket should seal and block it, but i did it just for piece of mind.

I chose the higher lift because my cylinder head has been ported and flowed, according to the flow sheet it flows more as lift increases so it only makes sense to use a camshaft that can take advantage of the extra flow..

Im sure a stock head or lightly modded one will flow better as lift increases..

I do not have any video of the setup at the moment.


Just for reference i got a used 26 head and intake manifold compete minus valve covers for 400 bucks

[advan_s13]

thank you for the info. Seems like a viable option and relatively inexpensive for a "car mod". I will look into this a little more before making a final decision.

*EDIT: also what would you consider a big turbo to run the 270 degree cams? I am using the full t4 gt3582r 1.06 option. I believe it is a 68mm turbine wheel. I know it's not a huge turbo by any means but I am just curious what size you think 270 degree would become a viable option.

[RRRRB]

here is a video, the other car was a 2011 GT500 mustang that was bone stock

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYLe5bYx ... r_embedded[/youtube]

[advan_s13]

that is a great sound to here at 6 AM before work! Sounds great. Do you by chance have a thread on your build? Wouldn't mind seeing what your running and pushing.

[RRRRB]

dont really have a build thread buts here is a quick run down

6766 1.00AR t4 turbo
ported rb26 head with stock ITB"S and freddy plenum
tomei pro 260 10.25
forged rb25 lower end
tomei oil pump
AFI divided turbo manifold

that video was on 18-19 psi on 92 oct pump gas.. its on a street tune that i did myself, hasnt been on the dyno yet

[advan_s13]

awesome. I have been trying to look up more info on the rb26 head swap. Seems that there isn't much info out there (at least than I can find). But I have found some info here and there. Wouldn't mind hearing that thing idle. I'm sure the cams sound pretty good. Good kill by the way. Thanks for the advice to.

[RRRRB]

there isn't alot of info out there.. i just researched what i could and went for it... and i haven't had a one problem with it...

The head swap isn't really even needed the 25 head flows just as good.. however the 25 head is limited at a certain point cam lift... the need for solid lifters was more than the cost i could get a 26 head and intake for.. and i really like the ITB's...

The biggest reason i did it was because i wanted a head ported, and i didn't wanna waste my money with an inferior head when the 26 head can be made to work on any RB (except 20)

[chad b.]

I would say go with the Kelford 270 9.3 lift cams (HL182-B). You don't have to clearance anything on the cylinder head to run them and you sure as hell don't need solid lifters. That's a load of crap Tomei tells people to get you to buy. Also, I personally wouldn't buy anything in a T4 variety, and if I did, it wouldn't be a 35r. You didn't tell us your hp goals, but I'm assuming it's under 650whp. You can easily achieve those number with a t3 housing turbo, and you surely don't need two 44mm gates. A buddy of mine has a 6765 t4 on his 25 and that thing don't hit full boost (22psi) until 5600. And an ARC front mount!?! lol Why would you spend that kind of money on an intercooler? I guarantee the core they use is the same much lower priced intercoolers use.

[RRRRB]

why wouldnt you buy something in the T4 variety? I have the 6766 and im hitting 18-19 psi about 4600.. thats a 1.00 divided T4 with a divided manifold... and for the record twin MVS 38mm gates would boost creep past 25psi and hit boost cut... 44's fixed that problem.

[advan_s13]

I would say go with the Kelford 270 9.3 lift cams (HL182-B). You don't have to clearance anything on the cylinder head to run them and you sure as hell don't need solid lifters. That's a load of crap Tomei tells people to get you to buy. Also, I personally wouldn't buy anything in a T4 variety, and if I did, it wouldn't be a 35r. You didn't tell us your hp goals, but I'm assuming it's under 650whp. You can easily achieve those number with a t3 housing turbo, and you surely don't need two 44mm gates. A buddy of mine has a 6765 t4 on his 25 and that thing don't hit full boost (22psi) until 5600. And an ARC front mount!?! lol Why would you spend that kind of money on an intercooler? I guarantee the core they use is the same much lower priced intercoolers use.

Yea bud I have a twin scroll mani AND twin scroll turbo. You have all kinds of weird statements going on here. For your information an ARC intercooler is cheap to me. How do you know what I paid? Price/money is up to the individual. I didn't have to spend 2 grand on a full race mani either. But I did. I'm not one to brag, but have you ever thought that maybe I make more money than you? If I posted my complete mod's list you would probably s*** a brick. You gaurantee? Show me some proof. Your "gaurantee" means nothing to me. Call Full Race and tell them they need to learn how to make manifolds. Also you do know that ARC has there own patented fin design with offset tubulators? They are pretty different to the standard core. Not to mention they are pretty light in weight as a whole. Let me ask you this, how much do you think I paid? I can't wait to hear the figure you come up with.

[chad b.]

Yea bud I have a twin scroll mani AND twin scroll turbo. You have all kinds of weird statements going on here. For your information an ARC intercooler is cheap to me. How do you know what I paid? Price/money is up to the individual. I didn't have to spend 2 grand on a full race mani either. But I did. I'm not one to brag, but have you ever thought that maybe I make more money than you? If I posted my complete mod's list you would probably s*** a brick. You gaurantee? Show me some proof. Your "gaurantee" means nothing to me. Call Full Race and tell them they need to learn how to make manifolds. Also you do know that ARC has there own patented fin design with offset tubulators? They are pretty different to the standard core. Not to mention they are pretty light in weight as a whole. Let me ask you this, how much do you think I paid? I can't wait to hear the figure you come up with.

You have a lot of real jackass statements going on here. I could care less what you consider cheap or how much you paid for an intercooler. Did I kick back and wonder if you made more money that I make. Hmm, no, why would I do that? We may as well brag about e-penises if we're gonna brag about money on the internet. Buy what you want and be a smart a** behind that keyboard. I could care less. I didn't say ANYTHING about Full-Race. As a matter of fact, I wanted to buy one of their manifolds, but they wouldn't build me one for a T3 setup, so I bought a LoveFab. My point was unless I was trying to make 1000whp, I wouldn't buy a T4 when there are several T3's out there that can make 900whp. I have $26k in my car so far, so showing me a build sheet will not impress me I promise.ARC has a patented fin design. So the most powerful, fastest cars must run them right? They have reinvented the wheel. Dude, go to a couple big drag events. Ask what people are running. See who's going fast on what. I'm not saying that you should buy cheap parts in no means. I have many expensive parts on my car, but just because it's expensive doesn't mean it's the best.

[ncturbospecv]

Sorry for getting off topic but i figured i'd post in here instead of making a new thread for cam choices. I've got an rb25 with a gt3076r and was wondering what sort of benefits i would get from tomei poncams? Wanting to know how it would effect mid range and peak hp/tq numbers. I cant really find a solid answer to this and i see most of you are knowledgable with rb cam selection.

[advan_s13]

Yea bud I have a twin scroll mani AND twin scroll turbo. You have all kinds of weird statements going on here. For your information an ARC intercooler is cheap to me. How do you know what I paid? Price/money is up to the individual. I didn't have to spend 2 grand on a full race mani either. But I did. I'm not one to brag, but have you ever thought that maybe I make more money than you? If I posted my complete mod's list you would probably s*** a brick. You gaurantee? Show me some proof. Your "gaurantee" means nothing to me. Call Full Race and tell them they need to learn how to make manifolds. Also you do know that ARC has there own patented fin design with offset tubulators? They are pretty different to the standard core. Not to mention they are pretty light in weight as a whole. Let me ask you this, how much do you think I paid? I can't wait to hear the figure you come up with.

You have a lot of real jackass statements going on here. I could care less what you consider cheap or how much you paid for an intercooler. Did I kick back and wonder if you made more money that I make. Hmm, no, why would I do that? We may as well brag about e-penises if we're gonna brag about money on the internet. Buy what you want and be a smart a** behind that keyboard. I could care less. I didn't say ANYTHING about Full-Race. As a matter of fact, I wanted to buy one of their manifolds, but they wouldn't build me one for a T3 setup, so I bought a LoveFab. My point was unless I was trying to make 1000whp, I wouldn't buy a T4 when there are several T3's out there that can make 900whp. I have $26k in my car so far, so showing me a build sheet will not impress me I promise.ARC has a patented fin design. So the most powerful, fastest cars must run them right? They have reinvented the wheel. Dude, go to a couple big drag events. Ask what people are running. See who's going fast on what. I'm not saying that you should buy cheap parts in no means. I have many expensive parts on my car, but just because it's expensive doesn't mean it's the best.

You are pretty funny. You clearly said I do not need 44mm wastegates. That is what Full Race recommended. Also the turbine flange option is t4 on the full race manifold which would be the reason for my turbo choice. But it seems you already knew that information yet still felt the need to make your comment. Kind of odd. You said " lol Why would you spend that kind of money on an intercooler?" That totally relates to money. "That much" clearly indicates you think its expensive. Yet you don't know what I paid for it at all. With my income, I wouldn't consider it expensive. Which would justify my answer to your question of "lol Why would you spend that kind of money on an intercooler?" I mean, did you not ask the question? The simple answer is because I can. Don't ask if you don't want the answer lol. I could give a f*** less about drag racing in general, its not purpose built. You assume way to much. Your original post was jackass-ish. Just because you said it, you feel it was justifiable. Please show me where I said expensive parts are the best? I never said anything about being the best. I simply posted up my parts then you jumped on me. Yet I'm the jackass? This is why I love society, the severe lack of using logic. You must be the kind of guy that goes and bashes on ferrari and lambo owners because they spent 300+k on a car that you can easily beat by spending way less. When no one really gives a s***. Then you want to say I'm showing my "e-pen15", yet you still feel the need to tell how much you have spent on your car to justify your "length" lol. If I was trying to show my e-peen don't you think I would of just went ahead and posted up my mod list and tried to sound like some super cool 240 god? If you think that simple comment was me showing my e-peen, then I have no reason to really "flex" it in your face because you would clearly lose the "e-pen15 match" lol. While 26k is above the average build, I'm sure you have a nice car and I wouldn't mind seeing it. Thanks for your opinion on the cams, but the rest was clearly your opinion on things not relating to the thread topic. Simple forum etiquette.......... but yea, I'll take the title of Jackass here. Have a nice day.

[chad b.]

I think we had a communication break down. We're both assuming one anothers purpose behind our words. If you got a name brand intercooler for a good price then thats legit. I'd buy one too if it fit properly. I have the Kelford 272's in my 25. My turbo is a Bullseye S366 extended tip .82 a/r T3 hot side with an equal length LoveFab turbo header and a single 44mm Tial. It makes 15#'s @ 5,200 and creeps to 17#'s by 5,400. The boost is rock steady after that. if it was any more laggy, I would consider selling it for a smaller turbo, but at that boost level, it's making right at 500whp. This is just info to compare your setup to. Sorry if I came off wrong. Good luck with your build.

[RRRRB]

has your car been on the dyno chad b? any pictures of the setup?

[advan_s13]

Thank you Chad B. I appreciate that post. Informative from your experience of what is going on with your motor. It sounds like its a beast of car. Any video or pics? How do you like the Kelford 272's? Did you notice the spool time change? How did the power band change?

[chad b.]

Mine was a full build, the motor was never started with stock cams, so I couldn't tell you the difference. I like the cams so far. We're still messin' with the idle, but it seems to do ok. Cold start is a nightmare, but everything else is good. It hasn't been on the dyno yet. I just got it running last week after a lot of troubleshooting on the C.B. harness. I have a dyno session scheduled for Friday morning. I think until I get used to the car, I'm gonna leave the boost alone. It's right at 17psi right now, and it destroys tires in third gear, so I'm really just wanting to see the actual numbers and curve. Total timing is 17-18 WOT @ 7500 and AFR's are 11.2-11.5 . Running BKR7ES-11's @ .28 gap. I'm thinking it's gonna be right at 475.

Don't hate on the Summit stickers on the fuse box lid. The top of the box was scratched up horribly when I got it, so I covered it with stickers. I'm trying to find a new lid for it now, and the blue Cusco cooling panel is getting powder coated black to match everything else.





vid:
http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q175 ... 131a8d.mp4

[RRRRB]

im curious as to what you make.. my car on 19psi only did 431whp on a dyno dynamics with a fully ported head and 260 cams on a 6766 turbo, i have no idea whats holding my peice of s*** back at the moment. im running 15 degrees of timing at 19psi and 92 pump gas

clean setup, looks good keep us updated.. i wanna hear all about it

[chad b.]

You should be closer to 17-18 degree of timing. 15 is base idle, so that would mean you're getting no timing advance?!? Aw naw bru, you got to get that timing up. A friend of mine made 475 on 17psi with 264's, a stock head, and compression w/ 6765 billet T4 on pump with Nistune. Never been on a dyno dynamics, but those numbers seem really low. Have you done a compression test/ leak down? We all use a dynojet here. You could always figure up hp with weight and trap speed if you take it to the track ya know.

[Carl H]

needs more timing but the numbers are good for a dynamics setup...dynojet dynos blow.

[RRRRB]

You should be closer to 17-18 degree of timing. 15 is base idle, so that would mean you're getting no timing advance?!? Aw naw bru, you got to get that timing up. A friend of mine made 475 on 17psi with 264's, a stock head, and compression w/ 6765 billet T4 on pump with Nistune. Never been on a dyno dynamics, but those numbers seem really low. Have you done a compression test/ leak down? We all use a dynojet here. You could always figure up hp with weight and trap speed if you take it to the track ya know.

20 degrees is base idle on rb26, 15 on 25 im running 20 base. (idles and drives better with ITBS this way) its getting timing advance but its at 15 because you retard timing under boost to deter detonation... 2 degrees difference isnt going to make up the power i feel its missing.. i added timing into this thing until the gains dropped off abruptyl it was at 13 degrees... only gained another 4whp when i added 1 more (16).. before it was picking up like 10-13whp.. its not timing causing the low power..

The torque curve is dropping badly as well, Torque = horsepower so something else is going on i think.. going to be doing some testing on the intercooler to see how warm it gets and monitor the pressure drop.. if it would have held torque out it would have made 50+more whp...


431 on a dyno dynamics is easily 475 on a dynojet.. altho i feel its still low for the mods done to the head etc.

Carl what kinda timing are you running on the RB30?

[chad b.]

Dynoed mine today. 472 @ 17psi & 358TQ. strictly waste gate pressure. boost controller turned off.

[RRRRB]

post your graph..

[advan_s13]

very clean chad. We have the same taste with blacking things out. My car is currently getting the bay painted. Looks good.