rb20 misfire 5k rpms

[rswails]

I have what I believe is a common problem which most of you guys here say is coil packs. My misfire sounds just like the misfire in this video at 57 seconds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7cVoT64Ukw

1st gear is the worst for this problem, second doesn't misfire nearly as bad.

My car runs fine below 5k ish, with the exception of a rough idle. ( probably occasional missing at idle I guess ).

I have a question about doing the night test and looking for arcing under the coil packs. Currently all of my coils arc doing this test, but they only start arcing visibly at near redline while I'm revving the engine in neutral. I'd like to know if this is a good test for me. ie, have any of the rb20 owners out there who have no misfire issues, done this test and not been able to see any arcing?

I have tried about a dozen different used coil packs and they all arc doing the night test. Some of these are newer and similar looking to super spark brand coils I believe. I expected them not to arc.

My last question is, could I buy one brand new aftermarket coil pack and do the night test with just the one newly replaced coil? My only concern is what if the other bad coils arc out and that spreads or something to the other coils when they fire. I'm not sure if a bad coil completely isolates its arc to itself or not thats all.

Current plugs: ngk bcpr6es-11 Gapped to 0.8mm

[t_blackout]

I've been head this syntom which is mine currently also thsame that it come from the knock sensor...try to check it out

[ST240]

Current plugs: ngk bcpr6es-11

Did you gap them down? the -11 means 1.1 mm gap i think which is too large.

[rswails]

Yes, I added the gap to my post. 0.8mm

[rswails]

Something goes bump into the night.

[t_blackout]

Something goes bump into the night.

I 've got the same problem here.first, I think it 's the ECU ,but it's not.Then ,I go for serch over on google.com .There is the post about this problem ,and it could be the TPS ,or code 43 which mean knock sensor .

By the way the knock sensor may be not the cost it all about timing.the plug will no be the cause of this.I am now look for the ground ,and the O2sensor too .But in my opinion,I think we have to look on TPS ,Coil ,and suggest to replace O2sensor

[t_blackout]

I for got to tell you about the boost leak you have to check it ,too.

This problem has syntom like boost come too quicjk great respone,but cant rev to redline right?

[rswails]

I don't have that boost leak symptom. 2nd gear and 3 gear don't misfire much at all high rpm's, but 1st is terrible, like in the video.

[ST240]

90% of the time with that symptom its the coil packs. Take the coil packs and wrap the s*** out of them in E-tape. Make sure there is no metal exposed to the "frame" they're bolted to. If that makes a difference, you know its the coil packs.

I had this problem with my RB20 at stock boost! They were in very poor shape.

[rswails]

I have tried taping them with no luck. I was told to tape the whole boot part, and the plasticy part adjactent to the boot part. Is that correct, or do you tape the whole metal rim that goes around the coils too?

[ST240]

Yeah unbolt the tiny bolts from the frame they sit on and wrap the "metal rim" as you call it in tape too. Theres an insulating coating on there that flakes off with heat and age. If that coating is gone you're getting arc'ing and loss of spark.

[rswails]

The metal rim I'm talking about is on the coilpack itself even when you remove a coil pack. I did not tape that part. Are you talking about the frame the coils sit on that holds 3 coil packs per frame?

[Genpac]

You don't tape the 3-coil frame that bolts on the cyl head. You tape/coat the coil windings and the stacked metal cores that the windings wrap around. I was having ign loss at 5k in every gear. I used liquid electrical tape and coated the whole coil and wrapped the rubber boots. I also de-oxidized both of the 3-coil mounting frames and hit them with a high temp clear coat. Added 2 extra grounding straps, one from the grounding point on the Cyl head where the coil harness grounds - to the firewall. Second from the ignitor case to the firewall. Last part I cleaned up the carbon contacts that are spring loaded against the sparkplug ends. Build up on these contacts can lead to poor condictivity as well. A light sanding with 600grit should clean them up fast.
7k RPM no problems. No cuts.

[ST240]

You don't tape the 3-coil frame that bolts on the cyl head. You tape/coat the coil windings and the stacked metal cores that the windings wrap around. I was having ign loss at 5k in every gear. I used liquid electrical tape and coated the whole coil and wrapped the rubber boots. I also de-oxidized both of the 3-coil mounting frames and hit them with a high temp clear coat. Added 2 extra grounding straps, one from the grounding point on the Cyl head where the coil harness grounds - to the firewall. Second from the ignitor case to the firewall. Last part I cleaned up the carbon contacts that are spring loaded against the sparkplug ends. Build up on these contacts can lead to poor condictivity as well. A light sanding with 600grit should clean them up fast.
7k RPM no problems. No cuts.

Nice work. I wish I put that much effort into trying to fix mine. I found the liquid electrical tape wasnt tough enough. It spun off at the screws... And I didn't even think of the clearcoat idea. I still think I'm going for ls2/truck coils this winter tho :/.

[rswails]

You don't tape the 3-coil frame that bolts on the cyl head. You tape/coat the coil windings and the stacked metal cores that the windings wrap around. I was having ign loss at 5k in every gear. I used liquid electrical tape and coated the whole coil and wrapped the rubber boots. I also de-oxidized both of the 3-coil mounting frames and hit them with a high temp clear coat. Added 2 extra grounding straps, one from the grounding point on the Cyl head where the coil harness grounds - to the firewall. Second from the ignitor case to the firewall. Last part I cleaned up the carbon contacts that are spring loaded against the sparkplug ends. Build up on these contacts can lead to poor condictivity as well. A light sanding with 600grit should clean them up fast.
7k RPM no problems. No cuts.

So does this mean that even if I get brand new coils, they still might arc out if I don't clear coat or do something with the aged frame?

[Genpac]

So does this mean that even if I get brand new coils, they still might arc out if I don't clear coat or do something with the aged frame?

Brand new coil packs will have the OE tough coating on it. I took the extra measure of spraying the frame to further isolate the coil packs. When electricity arcs it leaves distinct patterns in the materials it jumps to. I saw these markings from the 3-coil frames to the Cyl head, so I was curious if coating the frames would help as well. I did all of this at one time because I didn't have the resources to test them individually... i just wanted my extra 2k rpms back.

Nice work. I wish I put that much effort into trying to fix mine. I found the liquid electrical tape wasnt tough enough. It spun off at the screws... And I didn't even think of the clearcoat idea. I still think I'm going for ls2/truck coils this winter tho :/.

If I was going to keep this motor, I'd go with LS coils as well, but I just want to make what I have work for now. I agree the liquid tape was insufficient for the screws that retain the coil packs to the frame, so the clear coat was just an added measure due to the arcing marks, above. There's no doubt the coils I have now are on their last legs so all of this is temporary.

[rswails]

I decided to buy one $95 brand new duralast coil from autozone for a infinit q45. I will test it and see if it arcs at night and let you guys know the result. I'm excited!

[rswails]

Ok the reman'ed coil pack I bought from Autozone arcs too!!! I am getting so angry at these coil packs. This one however arcs much dimmer than the older coil packs. Can someone with properly working coil packs PLEASE do me a favor and do the night test mentioned above to see if any arcing occurs even though there are no missfire issues. I can't afford to buy a $500 set of coil packs without knowings for sure it will solve my missfire problem. If I could get my money back, sure I'd try a whole new set, but buying new, you know you won't get your money back. Thanks guys

[rswails]

Excellent news. I have finally fixed my misfire problem after 1 year of on and off troubleshooting. The problem was my timing was set wrong. It was retarded too much I believe ( rotating my CAS all the way counterclockwise fixed my problem ). After buying brand new $500 Split fire coil packs assuming that was the problem, I STILL HAD HIGH RPM MISFIRE. I was quite angry after this, but alas I didn't give up. I checked for arcing out on my brand new coil packs, and sure enough, I could see them arcing out at night. Since I knew all 6 brand new coils were likely not faulty, I accepted the fact that arcing out doesn't mean bad coils always.

The reason I thought it wasn't my timing was because the FSM says something about the CAS adjustment is not necessary over time because it will self learn. I must have misunderstood, or that is flat out wrong. Listen guys, before you screw around with coil packs, go find someone with a timing light and check your timing. Even if you think your car runs great aside from the misfire, it could be incorrect timing.

It was unfortunate that bad coil packs can have the exact same symptoms as incorrect timing, otherwise it would have saved me a lot of wasted time and money. Now I have about 12 coils that I thought were bad that aren't bad. Oh well, at least I can get some of my money back.

Thanks guys. I really hope this helps some poor sucker like me one day!

[rswails]

I guess edits don't bump? Oh well here is the bump.

[tyndago]

CAS should be in the middle of its range. If its not, then you probably have some other issue.

If its at one extreme or the other, you have to ask yourself why it is at that point.

Misfires are often the coils, you need to check the contacts/springs/carbons(I see them fall out and go missing when people change plugs), and the coil harness. They get crispy and cooked in the engine valley.

[rswails]

I don't think its the coils because I have brand new coils and saw no difference. Also, I have an automatic ECU and that is supposed to be 5 degrees more advance ignition timing than the manual ECU. The FSM says 20 degrees BTDC at 650 RPM idle for auto as opposed to 15 degrees for manual ECU. Because I have an auto ECU maybe you can't expect my CAS to be in the middle of the range. Yes I might have some other issue, but keep in mind I have an AUTO ECU.

[Yellow4g63]

My RB20 ecu was also an auto version. I just set the timing to 20deg since it's what the computer is looking for.

[rswails]

Since your's is auto to, what position is your CAS in? Mine is all the way counterclockwise. Thanks

[Yellow4g63]

I can't remember what it use to be since I have it @ 15 deg now since I have nistune and loaded a 5spd rom on it.