rays lugnuts cross threaded

[navajo_drifter]

so i bought a set of rays lugnuts. Duralumin lock and nut set. I installed 15 of them then did the same thing I did on the last 5 that i did with the first 15 but this time, i crossthreaded 4 of the lugnuts. this was my procedure:

for a summary go to below all these steps:

-I put the tire on-put all 5 lugnuts on then tightend hand tight while tire is not touching ground (ebrake is on)-then used the socket to hand tighten, and yes all were done in a star pattern-then grabbed my torque wrench and started with the lock lugnut after lowering the car so the tire is touching the ground with a little weight on it but not the full weight.-tightened slowly just like all the others then all of a sudden it gets looser...im like ahhh crap...then take it off, look at it, and the thread is pulled off on the lugnut side, so im like crap, my 100+ dollar lugnuts...-so i put a regular tuner lugnut in its place and it torques down to 100ftlbs just like i have always ran. (after reading what some people have torqued down mine is kinda high but it works. I also drift so this is not my first time changing tires or lugnuts...its to the point where id almost rather pay someone to do it for me...)-then proceed to the next one, start to torque it down and then loose...dang it not again!...take it off and replace with a tuner lugnut, and torques down-take off the other rays lugnuts and inspect, threads are good, everything fine, then reinstalled the 3 rays lugnuts making sure they are going in straight, and i go nice and slow, in the same process of hand tight, hand tight with socket then, start with the wrench and again it goes loose, im ready to start swinging then...but refrain and install another cheap tuner lugnut and torque down with again no problems...-take the other 2 rays off again and inspect again, still look fine, so i reinstall the rays lugnuts, and begin to torque one down and loose...so i give up and take the 2 rays lugnuts off and put tuner lugnuts on and so i kill 4 rays lugnuts on the last wheel...any ideas on what happened?

summary:I install the 15 lugnuts and on the last 5 i crossthread 4 on 4 different lug studs using the same procedure as the first 15 (I drift so this is like my umteenmillionth time changing tires and lugnuts). the procedure being, hand tighten while tire in air, hand tighten with a socket, then tighten with torque wrench. I have tightend all my lug nuts to 100ftlbs on all my rims for the past 2 years and never had a problem except once but that was because my "friend" used an electric impact to tighten the lugnut...I always do everything by hand...any ideas on what happened?

THANKS FOR ANY AND ALL INPUT!!!

[gumby74]

I dont go higher than 89-90 ft/lbs of torque myself.Damn. I'd be 8 kinds of pissed if that happened to me. I was thinking of buying the Kyokogen lugnuts myself. Sorry, cant justify over $100 for lugs.

[navajo_drifter]

yea...100+ dollars is a little ridiculus, but i figured you get what you pay for...and the lugnuts are light as hell, and real smooth lookin, the 5 rays lugs = the weight of 1 tuner lug...thats what it feels like.

[ddgsxr504]

That's what you get for buying $100+ lug nuts.

I completely agree with the old saying that you get what you pay for but there are somethings that just aren't worth the money regardless.

I bought a set of 20 Red locking key lugs from Mutegi for about $30, no problems yet.

All I can say is sorry? Oh yeah and....

OWNED

[navajo_drifter]

That's what you get for buying $100+ lug nuts.

I completely agree with the old saying that you get what you pay for but there are somethings that just aren't worth the money regardless.

I bought a set of 20 Red locking key lugs from Mutegi for about $30, no problems yet.

All I can say is sorry? Oh yeah and....

OWNED

but, how do you know until you try...but yea they all do the same thing but I have RAYS lugnuts while you just have motegi...as well as rims, you just have the run of the mill FNO1-RC while I have WORK TM-1 TERMIST...they do the same thing but mines looks better...

[ddgsxr504]

but, how do you know until you try...but yea they all do the same thing but I have RAYS lugnuts while you just have motegi...as well as rims, you just have the run of the mill FNO1-RC while I have WORK TM-1 TERMIST...they do the same thing but mines looks better...

My run of the mil FN's... $350

Your Works... $1000+ ?

My Motegi Lugs... $35

Your Rays Lug Nuts.... $100+

Your new Rays Lug Nuts... ???

I'm not all for the FN's but getting 2 19x9 +20 and 2 19x10 +25 with Michelin Pilot rubber at all 4 corners for $350 sounds like a no brainer to me.

Besides I said nothing about your wheels anyway, no $hit that Works are better than FN's I'm so sorry that you don't like the fact that I don't agree with paying stupid amounts of money for lug nuts.

[navajo_drifter]

Besides I said nothing about your wheels anyway, no $hit that Works are better than FN's I'm so sorry that you don't like the fact that I don't agree with paying stupid amounts of money for lug nuts.

but also you gotta look at the weight of these lugnuts...thats essentially what your paying for, the rays, i am almost 100% sure are lighter than your motegi's. a lot of what i buy is for performance gains...there are the occasional items that do nothing in terms of performance but when i can make form meet function, I do...and some people are not broke and looking for money with the ability to afford lugnuts like that...its the same concept as someone buying some dymag wheels...yea they are 2000 dollars a pop and will help the performance of the car but if you cant drive and take advantage of it, its pointless. this is the point I hope your trying to convey because the fact of the matter is, some people are loaded, and money is no matter.

[ddgsxr504]

but also you gotta look at the weight of these lugnuts...thats essentially what your paying for, the rays, i am almost 100% sure are lighter than your motegi's. a lot of what i buy is for performance gains...there are the occasional items that do nothing in terms of performance but when i can make form meet function

I completely agree, you are paying for the weight reduction, but.... how much of a reductioin do you actually loose in terms of unsprung weight??

3 pounds max?

I guess since I am not a baller such as your self I don't see the point of buying something just because I can afford it.

[navajo_drifter]

I guess since I am not a baller such as your self I don't see the point of buying something just because I can afford it.

Again, where form can meet function, this is the best route...but by lowering the weight of any centripetal mass, you essentially free up 2.5 hp from the motor, but when you lower the weight on the rotating mass of the wheel, you not only accelerate faster you brake faster, also have faster turn in, and I, myself, like any extra help you can get. I believe it was a good buy...considering the slight if even noticble gains.

[ddgsxr504]

Again, where form can meet function, this is the best route

The price vs function is not anywhere close, $100 to lose 3 pounds? There are far more places to shave those 3 pounds of weight off your car.

but by lowering the weight of any centripetal mass, you essentially free up 2.5 hp from the motor

This makes no sense what so ever. Plus I think you meant to use a different word.

The actual formula (persay) is for every 100lbs you lose it frees up 1 WHP.

but when you lower the weight on the rotating mass of the wheel, you not only accelerate faster you brake faster, also have faster turn in, and I, myself, like any extra help you can get. I believe it was a good buy...considering the slight if even noticble gains.

It's called unsprung weight, you can lose 5lbs of unsprung weight by removing your brake dust shields off your spindles. That's 2 pounds more than the lug nuts and best of all..... it's free!

[srpowered240sx]

It's called unsprung weight, you can lose 5lbs of unsprung weight by removing your brake dust shields off your spindles. That's 2 pounds more than the lug nuts and best of all..... it's free!

word, or get your girlfriend to go on a diet. you'll feel more of a difference.

id say try to hit your lug nuts with a 12x1.25 tap, and see if you can clean them up enough, but personally, i wouldnt use aluminum lug nuts once they have stripped. go buy a set of wheel locks, and use those to replace the booggered up ones. also, it sounds like you need some hubcentric rings, or to hold your wheel up more centered when tossing lugs on. you should be able to run them to the bottom without resistance by hand.

[navajo_drifter]

The price vs function is not anywhere close, $100 to lose 3 pounds? There are far more places to shave those 3 pounds of weight off your car.

I said FORM to function...not price...so it looks good and works the way it was intended. and i do agree there are more places to shave weight but the lugnuts is the place i was doing it. where FORM(looks) met function...

This makes no sense what so ever. Plus I think you meant to use a different word.

The actual formula (persay) is for every 100lbs you lose it frees up 1 WHP.

the formula i used was from unorthodox...at the crank is also what i assume they were talking bout...maybe it was like 5 lbs of rotating mass to 2.5hp...im not 100% sure. and I meant to use centripetal...GOOGLE it...

It's called unsprung weight, you can lose 5lbs of unsprung weight by removing your brake dust shields off your spindles. That's 2 pounds more than the lug nuts and best of all..... it's free!

the dust sheild doesnt rotate...rotating mass causes centripetal force which makes things harder to accelerate, or brake than just the extra weight of something that doesnt rotate.

word, or get your girlfriend to go on a diet. you'll feel more of a difference.

id say try to hit your lug nuts with a 12x1.25 tap, and see if you can clean them up enough, but personally, i wouldnt use aluminum lug nuts once they have stripped. go buy a set of wheel locks, and use those to replace the booggered up ones. also, it sounds like you need some hubcentric rings, or to hold your wheel up more centered when tossing lugs on. you should be able to run them to the bottom without resistance by hand.

^that is more of what i was going for when i posted this thread, to see if anyone else had this problem, or any possible solutions...maybe somebody knows you cant tap the rays lugnuts...maybe, i overlooked something...maybe i did a slight problem...many variables, but not unnecessary comments like, im sorry, OWNED and BS like that...and because of the smart guy (srpowered240sx) im goin get some hubcentric rings and try that, it may not work but it is a good suggestion, that i havent thought about! Thanks!

[ddgsxr504]

Sorry for busting your balls.... you never asked for possible solutions or what to do. All you asked is what went wrong i.e. why did they cross thread.

In that case the problem is they are made of Aluminum. Aluminum in any form of bolt, nut, thread ect sucks. Aluminum does not have the proper tensile strength qualities to be used on lead bearing or like areas especially not when it comes to holding wheels on a car.

[bone_stock_240]

the dust sheild doesnt rotate...rotating mass causes centripetal force which makes things harder to accelerate, or brake than just the extra weight of something that doesnt rotate.

Oh man, justifying paying $100 + for lugnuts for perfmance benefit made me LOL. I hope you know that the closer a mass is to the centre of rotation, the smaller the impact it has on rotional inerta. Your lug nuts make very close to 0 difference. And I mean very close. I was driving for a day missing a lugnut on each wheel, and it did not make any sort of noticeable difference on vibration or anything like that. Try and buy the lightest weight performance tire that you can. That will make a bigger difference that the tiny savings on lug nuts.

Now to try and help, I would also suggest doing what srpowered suggested. I cross threaded one of the fittings for the clutch line, and I managed to clean it out to a satisfactory level with the tap. Chances are you are screwed though. Aluminum is way too wickedly soft to make any sort of long lasting threaded thing out of.

[LooseSlide]

honestly it doesnt sound like anything got cross-threaded by your description, just sounds like you ripped the thread off the lugs. you may want to stay arround 75-90lb-ft for those particular lugs. for the price they should be stronger and not just lighter but w/e.

[kamikazestorm420]

on my kyokyugen lugnuts (had to get them to mount my FN's), it said on the back not to torque them over 80lb/ft. 100 is waaaaay too much for aluminum lugnuts. THAT is your mistake.

and $100 lugnuts lol. performance? lol. unsprung weight? lol.

are you the one that made a thread about lightweight lugnuts lol. this lugnut performance increase made me LOL

[gumby74]

At this point it makes little difference, but I mentioned this to my brother (aircraft mech) and he looked at me kinda funny.He suggested using a copper based grease on the threads. Tighten by hand, torque slowly, clean threads after removal blah blah blah.Dont bother re-threading them. Because of the amount of torque and tension, damaged threads will fail.Dont know if that helps any, but something to keep in mind should you or anybody else pursue this avenue.

[ddgsxr504]

Took you guys long enough to chime in.....

[thenillaz]

Honestly toqueing bolts to the spec isnt always the best way to do it, as you can see. I torque bolts depending on the material and thinkness of the bolt and nut. If you do it carefully by feel, you know when you're going to reach the breaking point of the nut and bolt. In you're situation the new lug nuts couldn't handle 100ft/lb of torque you were putting on them so they broke. Simple as that. You should depend on your sense of feel and observation when torqueing nuts and bolts sometimes rather than a torque stick or wrench.

[bone_stock_240]

Took you guys long enough to chime in.....

Hahaha. At least I had some fresh information to add. Knocking down his whole "centripedal force" theory.

[gumby74]

This has actually inspired me to check something out. Last night I purchased a set of cheap (probably Korean or Chinese made) light weight lug nuts. These would be made from 7075 grade aluminum, long hexagonal, similar to Buddy Club lug nuts.I have read many mixed reviews about the higher priced items, so I will be doin' some torquing next week on some cheaper ones.Total cost of my "testing"? $31.00Purpose? I dont know, I was driver of the month for April, so I was given a little extra scratch and a gift card to Outback Steak House. I ROCK!!!That and if they can handle multiple torque cycles of up to 75-80 lb/ft? I MAY actually use them on my car. Besides, the blue matches my valve stems. I am a ricer I know I know...but think of the performance gainshahahahahahah.

[ddgsxr504]

Besides, the blue matches my valve stems. I am a ricer I know I know...but think of the performance gainshahahahahahah.

It's all good, I have red lugs and red valve caps

[gumby74]

Yeah I am going for the imitation Work look on my Competitions.Blue makes me think of Work.or 5 Zigen.

[skydragoness]

Honestly toqueing bolts to the spec isnt always the best way to do it, as you can see. I torque bolts depending on the material and thinkness of the bolt and nut. If you do it carefully by feel, you know when you're going to reach the breaking point of the nut and bolt. In you're situation the new lug nuts couldn't handle 100ft/lb of torque you were putting on them so they broke. Simple as that. You should depend on your sense of feel and observation when torqueing nuts and bolts sometimes rather than a torque stick or wrench.

What? That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. Maybe if you have a piece of crap $20 torque wrench should you not use it.

And FYI people, 75-80ft/lb is the proper torque for lug nuts--real ones that is. And lug nuts should be heavy for a reason. They're holding your'e wheel down! There are many other areas to shave weight on the corners and IMO, lug nuts is not one of them. It's a gimmicky thing. Gorilla and McGard Spline Drives are the best ones' out there. Not directed to the O.P. (since you seem to know your stuff) but everyone needs to always check the torque settings on your lugs once a month and after autocrossing/racing.

I don't think you did anything wrong, you did everything to the T. If I were you, I'd contact the seller or the U.S. Ray's Headquarters (if there is one) and ask them "WTF?"