Rants from the Ricer: NISMO gets no respect.

[RicerX]

Time and again, (and I have participated in this), I have seen the Nissan enthusiasts rant about the direction Nissan is taking. "I'm sick of CVTs!" "I want a stick!"

Nissan is BORING and UGLY and BORING and FAILWHEELDRIVE and BORING and MALLFINDER and SUCKS.

We, the enthusiasts, have voiced our concerns for a great many years here on this board. I remember coming aboard here in 2008 with my shiny new Altima Coupe 3.5 (a CVT, which I later corrected with a 6MT in 2010) and finding the largest group of Altima Coupers here. Here we had this 2+2 coupe that was reasonable enough to have as a daily, yet powerful enough to do sporty fun things with. Sure, the weight distribution was pretty miserable, but it was a pretty coupe that was a blast on the interstate. It was the first 2+2 offering since the 240SX died in 1998! It wasn't all the right things, but it was a start.

The first NICO gripe I found - lack of stick shifts. I agreed, and I was, at one point, part of the problem. I settled. Like so many others. I bought a CVT, further perpetuating the myth of less driver's wanting stick shifts by purchasing a CVT. I wanted a new car, and I wanted it right then. I paid for it later too, but I'm going to get to that here in a bit.

Even while I was enjoying my 2004 Sentra SE-R Spec V before that (my first Nissan) and while I was in my phase with my Altima Coupe before I grew a pair and finally bought the car I truly wanted (my Z), Nissan wasn't quite there with the enthusiasts. There were missing pieces.

Here's my big question for each of you - What if they were listening?

We all know change doesn't happen overnight. We'd all raise eyebrows if GM stopped recalling vehicles tomorrow (or they might have finally finished recalling everything they've ever made - kinda like finding the end of the internet). It'd be weird as hell if we went to a Nissan dealership tomorrow and found brand new 240Zs, S13 hatchbacks, RWD Altima Coupes with 50/50 weight distribution, Z32 TTs, or A33 Maximas with only 6MTs equipped. Right before going insanely broke, we would have no idea what to do with ourselves.

Change happens slowly and I think what we have all been asking for is right on the verge of finally happening.

Usually, change has to be ushered in by a dramatic proof of concept. In this case, you have to demonstrate you can build the best of the best with respect to your problem/opportunity space.

Pictured: Performance proof of concept.

Then, you formulate a plan of attack, and implement the proof of concept's attributes in many shapes, forms, etc.

Enter the NISMO brand.

This is an idea that has been so sporadic in implementation over the course of Nissan's history finally has someone in charge of it that has a clear vision and is executing on that vision in a way that should bring NICOnauts to the dealerships from behind their keyboards.

First - you need the flagship for the brand. A world-beater.

Check.

Rear drive, two seater ready for the track, yet semi affordable?

Check.

DEM SEATS THO

Quirky, attention getting vehicle that is a crazy take on a subset of a flourishing segment of cars?

Check.

Hot hatch?

Check.

Sedan version of the hot hatch? (Even more likely - it's already a US market car)

Check.

Over the last two years, these little cars have been trickling out. Yet, no one here talks about them. Not in the slightest. Why is that? What is missing?

Stick shifts? Check. AWD variant? Semi-check (CVT Juke?!) LSDs in all variants? Check. (The Juke Nismo RS even gets a helical limited slip, rather than a viscous one. WHAT.) Faster than their regular production variants? Check. (Double check for the GT-R) RACECAR SEATS?! CHECK. Subtle racing-themed styling? Check (ok so maybe I'm the only one that likes that... silly Ricer).

First - you're probably thinking "Dude, the Pulsar isn't in production, and even if it makes production, it's probably not coming to the states." I think of all the hot hatches we have seen, this thing has the greatest chance of hitting the US of anything Nissan has teased us with before. The Focus STs, Mazdaspeed 3s, and WRXs of the world are all here, and Nissan could play in that market.

Next - you're probably thinking "Dude, the NISMO Z is too expensive." To that, I counter with this - what other two seater (or even coupe for that matter) car can you get that has a pair of Recaros, track-tuned suspension, forged wheels, rear LSD with upgraded gearing (yes, the 2015 Nismo Z has an upgraded final drive to 3.92 in the 6MT) for $40k? Ok, some version of the Mustang or Camaro is probably close, but I'd wager a touch more expensive or right about the same. Nothing cheaper.

Finally - you're probably thinking "Dude, the Juke is ugly." Well, I got nothing for you there. I love that ugly f*** though. I want one for a DD. In my perfect little garage, I'd have a Titan, a Juke Nismo, and a Z Nismo.

Sure, we all whine and complain about the direction Nissan has taken, but I feel like they're carving out this tiny place for us NICOnauts to live, and painting it with white, red, and dark gray livery and putting racecar parts on them from the factory with a warranty. AND WE STILL b**** about Nissan having boring offerings.

Some people here drive Speed3s or WRXs (I used to, myself). Would you buy a Pulsar Nismo? If not, why not? How many of you drove Sentra SE-Rs? I did. Would I buy a NISMO Sentra? Probably, but not if there's a Pulsar next to it on the lot. That guy looking at a WRX might consider a Sentra NISMO though. That guy looking at a Mustang Track Pack might consider the NISMO Z. A lot of people here drive a Miata. Word - I got nothing. It's cheap, and it's one of the best sports cars ever made. Nissan doesn't make a roadster like that. (I will cave there, the Z Roadster is retarded levels of expensive). Scion makes the FR-S - well, I already ranted about that in another post last month.

We all love to be critical, but if we walked into a Nissan dealership, and there was a Nissan version of a Jeep Wrangler, a WRX, an FRS, a Mustang GT, a Focus ST, an F150, a Miata, or an M3, the vast majority of people on here, if money were no object, would still not buy the Nissan version. Methinks we might be unicorn enthusiasts instead of Nissan enthusiasts.

What is missing? Sound off below.

Keep the rubber side down.
-Z

[Pento240sx]

I love the Z and GT-R that's it. I would not buy no Nismo other than those. I mean the other Nismos seem like they are trying to hard to make them more sportier. The pulsar looks good, but I would not buy it. I think if Nissan ever wants to get back into the sports market, the should make a RWD, 6 speed, Turbo or N/A options, 2 door and 50/50 distribution (240SX). I bet if they remake the S-chasis under 20,000 it will sell fast, I will instantly sell my S14 and get one of the lot. Specially if there is a Nismo version. Nissan right now is too focus on the mpg, emission, and other green thumb ideas. I don't think they may ever make anything that is least expensive, good looking and decent fast. They are falling behind in the sports market. But that is just my opinion. Hopefully they make a comeback into the sports market.

[Bubba1]

Impressive rant. The main issue I have with the NISMO version of the GT-R, is that the price premium Nissan wants for the dang car far exceeds the stuff they added to the existing GT-R. Then add that price gouging upgrade to the already inflated price they charge for a new GT-R, a car that has changed little since it was introduced. Not worth it. And before one starts spitting out performance factoids, two words. SRT-8 Hellcat. It's faster, roomier, literally half the price of the GT-R, AND it has a man pedal, which is something Nissan does not even offer in the GT-R. I'm not saying the GT-R is bad, but the market has changed. And I think the NISMO version represents a cheapie attempt to extract more money from an aging platform. Nissan needs to get off their tush, and put some real development money into their fun cars, more than cheezy striping, body cladding and a NISMO decal.. Long overdue. Nissan has always seemed a tad different and dysfunctional, but it now seems like they lost the "fun" in "dysfunctional".

[float_6969]

I'm with you. I'd have a NISMO Z, GTR, Juke, and if the Pulsar makes it here (as a Sentra presumably) I'd be on board with that too. I like the direction NISMO takes and I hope to be able to actually purchase my first new car in the next couple of years. Money talks more than any internet forum ever will. As in life, if you only focus on what you don't like, that's all you'll ever see. We need to find the things we DO like and focus on that. Talk about THOSE things. That's how positive change is made.

[OriginalWheelman]

I've said many times I liked my brother in law's turbo Juke.

Having now driven a Ford CVT, Nissan's seem amazing by comparison. People have gotten mad at me for saying I prefer a CVT to a normal automatic. That is, as long as they don't make it "feel like a regular transmission" by simulating gear ratios. I went on a trip last month. I had 2 rental cars. The Focus sedan CVT, and an Altima Coupe 2.5 CVT. The Altima was better in every way. We got 34 mpg between Salt Lake and Portland, and the speed limit was 75-80 most of the trip.

The Z and the GT-R speak for themselves. The only thing the Z lacks is character. You talk a lot about numbers, but what the Z doesn't really do is stand out in any particular way except that's its Japanese and fast, and that's always been a niche market here.

The Pulsar looks awesome, the problem is we have been let down by Nissan so many time we don't trust them when they reveal a concept. They always give us a concept that's what we want, and then cut the wrong corners when it goes to production, from an enthusiast standpoint. If the Pulsar is built and sold here as advertised, I'd be excited. My friend may finally trade his Versa in for one. And he has owned that since they came out in 2007 and flat refuses to get rid of it for any other car.

[txchamps]

Nissan's stated goal is to achieve a 10% market share in North America. Right now they're sitting at 7.8% and climbing. This means that they are focusing on Altima, Sentra and Versa sales primarily, which are ranked 4th, 12th, and 16th respectively in US passenger car unit sales for the year to date. I don't think they see the performance market as a big contributer to their goal.

As gas prices decline (and I see alot of signs that there will be a long-term decline, or at least a leveling-off of prices somewhere around $2.50 to $2.80 for reg unleaded for an extended period), there might be a slightly increasing demand for performance and/or enthusiast vehicles, but surely not enough to radically change Nissan's offerings.

Don't hold your collective breath waiting for Nissan to come up with more performance-oriented options is what I am saying. Volume first, margins second. Perhaps not the best of business plans, but that's where they are right now.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I actually highly prefer the normal Z to the NISMO.

The NISMO just doesn't seem to drive as well, on the track or one the street. The ABS kicks in WAY too early, and it really doesn't seem to handle any better (in fact, it seems to understeer like crazy).

They could have done a much, much better job on the Juke NISMO. It doesn't feel fast. At all. It doesn't handle particularly well either (unless you're Torry, and can bend space-time to get the car to do the hula).
If the car had an extra 100-150hp over the stock version, was lowered to a respectable height, and was offered in an awd manual version, it would have a lot more credibility, fuglyness or not.

The Z and the Juke are the only 2 current production NISMO options in my eyes. As Joel pointed out, the GTR is stupidly expensive, and really doesn't offer much bang for the buck compared to a stock GTR. The Sentra and Pulsar aren't available here, so I don't care about them.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Nissan's stated goal is to achieve a 10% market share in North America. Right now they're sitting at 7.8% and climbing. This means that they are focusing on Altima, Sentra and Versa sales primarily, which are ranked 4th, 12th, and 16th respectively in US passenger car unit sales for the year to date. I don't think they see the performance market as a big contributer to their goal.

BINGO!

This is it. This is the killer. It's happened to other automakers and other companies in other industries. It is the easy trap. Business-wise, ignoring reality, volume is the ultimate measure of success. But it's a shortsighted, uninspired measure. Obsession with volume is what took Toyota from the company that made the Supra to the company that builds the modern (heh, there's a joke) Corolla. Obsession with volume is what Ghosn brought to Nissan. One cannot argue that it was not good for the bottom line. But what we can argue? There's a lot of that. Perhaps the most significant point being whether the quantity of product being moved outweighs the quality of the product. Harbor Freight probably says "yes" to that one. Ferrari, McLaren, Jaguar, and whole lot of other venerable names would say "no." Would you rather have an XE or a Camry? Jaguar proudly admits that the XE will not match even 3 series sales numbers. But what a product does has nothing to do its sales quantity. Sometimes, building a better product means selling less of it. Usually, that means selling less for more. Usually, that means building a reputation.

Is Toyota more profitable than those companies? Sure. But are they more successful? That depends upon your measure of success. And my measure of success goes a lot further than overwhelming the market with mediocrity.

That goes for Toyota, and it goes for Microsoft, Activision, and a thousand other "market leaders" in a thousand other markets.

Quit bragging about doing most of nothing. I'd much rather hear about doing the best of something.

And this is why NISMO will never mean anything. Because NISMO is not the point. NISMO is a tacked-on afterthought, applied ex post facto. Even the GTR is not the point. It's a distraction from the point. It has so little to do with the point that neither benefits from or has any connection with whatsoever the other. That's an argument and complaint I've voiced before. The GTR might be a "halo car" but it's too high a halo. It is not remotely representative of anything else Nissan does. At least the Honda who built the NSX sold other fun- and inspiring-to-drive cars. But Nissan? The GTR might as well be wearing Ford badges for all the relation it has to Nissan's lineup. And cramming its drivetrain into a limited-run Infiniti (NOT a Nissan!) changes nothing in that regard.

Measuring success by market share is asinine.

[OriginalWheelman]

It also doesn't help NISMO when they slap it on a Frontier that is essentially a normal Frontier.

[jbracy7]

slow clap for ricerX

[txchamps]

You sort of got my point, but sort of missed it, too. Much of what you say I can agree with readily. But I have some quibbles.

Business-wise, ignoring reality, volume is the ultimate measure of success.

That's not quite where they are. Volume is a measure of success, but certainly not the ultimate one. Profitability, in the aggregate, is the ultimate measure. And that points back to a large number of variables that all large corporations consider. If they built a large volume of crap, they would ultimately have no buyers, except for fans of crap, and I would argue that that is, at the end of the day, a mighty small number. (You might argue the other way, but that's a different discussion) They have to match the product to the market. Pardon me for belaboring the obvious, but they cannot achieve success by trying to sell Supras, Z's, Miatas, or what have you, to a market segment that is seeking a family daily driver with lots of cargo space and great gas mileage. They can't achieve success by attempting to sell a Smart Car to families with 12 kids. At some point, they may make the decision that spending R and D and marketing money on performance vehicles garners them a return that is meaningless to their bottom line, and so will drop the effort as irrelevant. That market has become irrelevant to Toyota, obviously. They don't have a single sports car or performance car in their line up. (unless you count the Scion FR-S, which is a poor man's Z at the very best). They are not ignoring reality -- they are paying very close attention.

Is Toyota more profitable than those companies? Sure. But are they more successful? That depends upon your measure of success. And my measure of success goes a lot further than overwhelming the market with mediocrity.

They also realize that if they do not pony up with the quality that the market place expects, they will not achieve their volume goals, their profitabilty goals, their market share goals. So they are forced to set quality standards that support their efforts. You would call it mediocrity, but you are famous around here for setting the bar pretty high. The average consumer is not interested in racing his car, or taking it to the track every weekend drifting, or running road rallies, or abusing his tires on winding mountain roads. He is looking for a car that starts every time, goes when he hits the accelerator, runs smoothely and well, drives where he steers it, stops when he brakes it, has a number of creature comforts, is safe, and is comfortable, perhaps a bit of fun to drive, and all within a specified budget. These things are what the most successful car makers do well, and are the keys to that ultimate success.

Quit bragging about doing most of nothing. I'd much rather hear about doing the best of something.

It depends on what that something is. If Nissan is the best at meeting the average joe's automotive needs (not saying they are, just an example), isn't that something?

Measuring success by market share is asinine.

Agreed. But is that what Nissan is doing? They have set a goal. How they achieve it may have more to do with the quality of their product than you give them credit for.

Oh -- and when you ask if I'd rather take the Jag or the Camry? *sigh*. I'll take the Camry. But, I'm an average joe

[RicerX]

Nissan's stated goal is to achieve a 10% market share in North America. Right now they're sitting at 7.8% and climbing. This means that they are focusing on Altima, Sentra and Versa sales primarily, which are ranked 4th, 12th, and 16th respectively in US passenger car unit sales for the year to date. I don't think they see the performance market as a big contributer to their goal.

Don't hold your collective breath waiting for Nissan to come up with more performance-oriented options is what I am saying. Volume first, margins second. Perhaps not the best of business plans, but that's where they are right now.

This is precisely the reply I was expecting to show up, and I'm so glad you took the bait.

Carlos Ghosn joined Nissan in June of 2000, and when he did, the company was in dire straits financially, as we all know. Only three of its 46 available models were generating a profit. These guys were nowhere near a global brand whatsoever - they were nearly dead. In an effort to turn the company around and generate profitability, sure volume and profitable vehicles are the answer, but you have to attract the attention of the buyers first.

The first new model that debuted during the Ghosn era for Nissan?


Not quite a volume seller, but an attention getter.

Enough attention to warrant Motor Trend's Sport Utility of the Year for 2000.

The next? You guys all know what's next.


Brand icon.

Neither of these vehicles is an Altima or a Sentra. Or a Pathfinder. Or a Rogue. Sure they both initially sold very well (their current models do not) - but that wasn't the strategy behind it. Sure, it was part of it, but the main goal was this - bring people to the dealer lots. When you get people to dealer lots, you create brand exposure. Get enough brand exposure and you create brand awareness. Brand awareness gets you potential buyers, and from there you have the tools to generate volume sales. Before Ghosn and before these two vehicles, Nissan had nothing that got any attention from the casual buyer, and the casual buyer is key to generating volume sales and, ultimately, a profit.

Those two cars served to help the company achieve the goals they had set forth to allow the company to do a 180. Now they have another goal - 10% market share. Time to do something to push the envelope again.

You guys write off the GT-R NISMO because it's too expensive, etc. etc. While the 99% of the car market will never buy it, the car is necessary for the NISMO brand. Otherwise, you end up with another failed bunch of SE-R models. You have to establish what NISMO truly means, and the halo ultimate version of NISMO has to be the GT-R.

Now I will articulate my point that counters your "volume seller" argument.

The Juke is a volume vehicle. Its top trim is a NISMO. The Sentra is a volume seller. Its top trim could be a NISMO. Giving your top volume cars the NISMO treatment does more of that whole "get people in the lots" kinda thing. While someone might not be able to afford the NISMO version of the car, they see how "cool" it could be, set out for the base model and mod away. Or buy the base model and wait until they can upgrade. Any number of things - but the key is that you get the attention.

Nissan knows that to become the next Toyota of the world (in terms of volume), you have to beat them at their own game. To do that, you need something that puts your brand ahead of theirs. There is no TRD Camry or Corolla or Highlander. They're just vanilla. Sure a Sentra is kinda vanilla these days, but toss some bacon on that b**** and all of a sudden "ALL I CAN SEE IS BACON". That's what NISMO can do for Nissan to push them to the next tier of success. It's the kind of thing a true global brand has to have, and now the company is in a healthy enough state to take the risk on such an idea.

Finally - this:

It also doesn't help NISMO when they slap it on a Frontier that is essentially a normal Frontier.

This was... like... seven years ago.

[OriginalWheelman]

I'm an old man. My memory goes back more than 7 years. Hell I'm still mad at GM from 1987.

I agree with you. I'd love to see SE-R or NISMO models of every car. The beancounters will kill it because they look at quantifiable metrics. Designing the car to have a manual option costs thousands in R&D and the additional sales need to offset the cost. This is the problem with corporate cart culture. They should just turn the cars over to a NISMO shop and let them have at it, like Ford and SVT.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Carlos Ghosn joined Nissan in June of 2000, and when he did, the company was in dire straits financially, as we all know. Only three of its 46 available models were generating a profit. These guys were nowhere near a global brand whatsoever - they were nearly dead. In an effort to turn the company around and generate profitability, sure volume and profitable vehicles are the answer, but you have to attract the attention of the buyers first.

The first new model that debuted during the Ghosn era for Nissan?


Not quite a volume seller, but an attention getter.

Enough attention to warrant Motor Trend's Sport Utility of the Year for 2000.

The next? You guys all know what's next.


Brand icon.

Neither of these vehicles is an Altima or a Sentra. Or a Pathfinder. Or a Rogue.

This is too narrow a snapshot to be valid.

Also, one of those vehicles damn well IS a Pathfinder. And more than just that, it was the Rogue of its time. A small SUV. Before crossovers were the Big Thing, everyone was building small BOF SUVs. It was effectively the precursor to the Rogue/Escape/Etc. segment of today, but before soccermoms realized they didn't care about solid axles and two-speed transfer cases.

Now, granted, the Xterra is also something very different, and TODAY is a very niche vehicle and even then had niche appeal, but that was on top of the "Nissan's Ford Explorer" aspect which was very much volume driven. Sure, the Xterra is a little more hardcore, but it managed to fill both slots just fine until the crossover market started emerging and then later when 7 seat crossovers/SUVs became a critical market (thus spawning the Xterra LWB, aka F-Alpha Pathfinder).

EVERYONE had a little ute back then. Friggin' everybody. A little ute based on the little pickup. Only Ford was doing it differently, with the Exploder separated and civilized compared to the Ranger. Chevy, Nissan, Toyota, all of them were doing the same thing, and it was not the uberniche segment it is today. It was the obvious choice. It was NOT a choice. You either sold a little ute or you missed out on a key piece of the market.

You guys write off the GT-R NISMO because it's too expensive, etc. etc. While the 99% of the car market will never buy it, the car is necessary for the NISMO brand. Otherwise, you end up with another failed bunch of SE-R models. You have to establish what NISMO truly means, and the halo ultimate version of NISMO has to be the GT-R.

No.

I write off the GT-R NISMO because it's NOT RELEVANT. There is NOT ONE BOLT on that car in common with anything else at Nissan. There is NOT ONE OUNCE of engineering carryover. There is not the slightest hint of trickle-down or technology seep. The car is an island--Hell, it's a whole different UNIVERSE--in relation to anything else going on at Nissan. It serves no valid purpose in terms of ADVANCING THE BRAND. Nothing of its philosophy extends downward. Nissan does not apply anything learned from the GT-R anywhere other than the GT-R.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Finally - this:

It also doesn't help NISMO when they slap it on a Frontier that is essentially a normal Frontier.

This was... like... seven years ago.

See, I don't think so. That's exactly how I see current NISMO. They don't do enough to make it relevant and justify the price increase. And like I mentioned previously, I actually prefer the normal version in some instances.

I mean hell, you can't race the NISMO Juke in SCCA because the thing is taller than it is wide. WHAT THE ACTUAL FLYING f***.

When they mentioned they'd be releasing the NISMO Juke, everyone thought "GREAT! Something that we can put up against the WRX and EVO", and then we were disappointed. So then Nissan said, "BUT WAIT, We'll release a NISMO JUKE RS with 270+ hp!", and again we thought "GREAT!... I mean, its not as good still, but whatever, maybe it will be comparable", and then they released it with a weaksauce 215hp, and still no AWD manual option to my knowledge.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

At 26+ grand, I'd much rather have a BRZ/FR-S, WRX, Miata, hell even a mustang, civic Si, Mazdaspeed 3, etc.