Rants from the Ricer: Conceptualizing Infiniti

[RicerX]

In concept, Infiniti should be a fierce competitor to the likes of BMW, Audi, Mercedes, and even to a point, Lexus and Acura. It should offer luxury and luxury-sport automobiles that are viable alternatives to the German luxomobile juggernauts at competitive prices.

Here is a concept - Infiniti could make a vehicle that could slide into a BMW 7 series segment:


Here is a concept - Infiniti could make a midengine sports car that could match up against the likes of an Audi R8 or a BMW i8:


Here is a concept - Infiniti could make a version of the Q50 that competes against an E-Class AMG or BMW M5:


Here is a concept - Infiniti conceptualizes a potential G-coupe successor in the form of a flagship sports car concept:


Here is a concept - Infiniti could actually produce a successor to the G coupe, shown here in the form of another concept vehicle:


Well, Infiniti - I have a concept for you: Produce a real f*** car.

Commit to SOMETHING. Produce SOMETHING. Identify yourself as SOMETHING. Live and breathe for SOMETHING.

We have a luxury arm of a massively powerful car company that is so inept when it comes to decision making that it has become a glorified auto show troll.


Pictured: Infiniti's Marketing Teaser for the 2016 LA Auto Show

The current G60 coupe (see what I did there?) has been sold since MY2009 with few, if any, significant updates.
The current G sedan, which was replaced but not really by the Q50, has been sold for over NINE MODEL YEARS now.
The Q50, which doesn't replace the G sedan, uses the same engine that has been used in the G since 2009 when not in hybrid guise.
The current M sedan has been sold since 2009.
The current FX crossover has been sold since 2008.
The current QX56 has been a thing since 2010 (which is a redesign of a body using an 11 year old platform - hardly clean sheet).

Meanwhile, Mercedes has debuted several clean-sheet vehicles including the GLA and CLA class vehicles as well as redesigns of nearly every model in the fleet, including the S class and C class. BMW has revamped its entire lineup save the X5 and one or two others. All new powertrains and platforms for each. Audi has more conservatively refreshed its lineup as well. Lexus has even aggressively restyled its entire lineup in the past two years.

In the time since Infiniti conceptualized its flagship vehicle (twice, maybe three times if you think about it with the Q80 being billed in the same way the Essence and the Emerg-E were), its entire competition has lineups that have evolved - some experiencing two cycles of evolution.

Infiniti as a company is completely inept - a brand that is in an identity crisis, and upper management that is stifling the few minds left at the company and preventing anyone from pulling the trigger on something.

You can only conceptualize your purpose and direction for so long until you become just that - a concept.

Perhaps this is all part of the plan, or perhaps Nissan is at home, asleep and dreaming of a radical new concept: a luxury arm that can compete with the best of the world.

[Ace2cool]

Lexus did it. Right now almost every single Infiniti is a carbon copy of a current Nissan, with the same dated engines that have been used for approximately half of a forever now and fancier bodywork. They need to differentiate. An Acura isn't a rebodied Hunda anymore. Toyota isn't cramming the same engines in a Lexus anymore (except for a few select "lower end" models. Infiniti needs to break away from Nissan if they're going to do anything worthwhile with the brand. It could be the coolest thing on the market, but whatever.

[MinisterofDOOM]

It's interesting when you bring Lexus into the picture, because they succeeded through playing the Germans' game by their own rules. Nobody else has really tried that (because it's honestly an insane gamble that can only be achieved by leveraging existing buyer loyalty against a lack of specific desire for anything already on the market--which means it can really only work once, and Lexus already did it).

Everyone else is busy convincing themselves that they're playing by the Germans' rules or, in more deluded examples, beating them.
Well, almost everyone else. Lincoln and Acura are off tripping over their own shoelaces in the corner, but they're so lost they're not even really a part of the same picture anymore.

But, at the end of the day, you have two approaches:
Be like the Germans but different.
Copy the Germans to your best ability.

Infiniti is shooting for the latter while defiantly hamstringing themselves in the name of...who the Hell knows? Eschewing V8s for hilariously dated V6s and I4s, Not making any meaningful powertrain advancements IN OVER A DECADE outside of the CVT which was a bad gamble and did not pay off for anyone. They compartmentalize so much that nothing is ever gained when new developments ARE made. They're so busy simultaneously defining who they aren't and trying to be everything that the company has about as much direction as a compass in a magnet factory.

They just don't have any idea who they are or who they want to be. And that means potential customers don't, either. Who wants to buy an identityless product?

If you're taking on the champ, you lay EVERYTHING on the table. Infiniti is so far from having the balls to do that it's genuinely hilarious.
If you can't take on the champ, you had better figure out how you're going to survive on your own merits. Infiniti doesn't even know what those mertis ARE, nevermind understanding how to put them to effective use.

Think about ANY other luxury brand on earth (even the posers) and you'll instantly come up with one or two words that define them relative to everyone else. Not for Infiniti. That's bad news for a luxury brand. How can you sell a luxury brand that has no image at all?

[Bubba1]

Excellent rant, RicerX. I think this one of the reasons why it's good Johann left. Other than a silly line-up renaming scheme, stuffing an off the shelf GT-R motor into a sedan and calling it red water, sorry, "Eau Rogue" (pardon moi), plus wasting millions to get their name slapped on a F1 car, with zero tie ins to their street cars, except paying Vettel even more money for a no-show VP job. Infiniti's done little more than minor tweeks to their line up over the last several years. And in the last three years, Infiniti's reported reliability has significantly slipped, which I'm surprised hasn't triggered bigger alarm bells. They used to be among the top marques for reliability. No longer. And the one positive is that their lineup has not yet been de-balled by Nissan's disturbing obsession with CVT's.

To me, their concept cars suggest they might have lost their way in the marketing department. What made them popular in the US was BMW/Audi- equivalent quality/performance with better reliability for less money. It seems like they now want to compete directly with BMW/Audi, and are offering multiple concepts for vehicles well above their customer base. I'm sorry, you can't polish an 8 yr old car, give it a new name and suddenly compete with companies that have been aggressivley developing their lineups for decades. For example, that Fisker lookalike concept looks sexy, but it aint gonna sell unless it's priced aggressively. The longer Infiniti stays on their current course, the tougher it'll be for them to compete.

To me, the new CEO might consider dumping the F1 sponsorship and use those many millions to address the reliability slide of the cars they're making now. Then to refocus the marketing troops to target something radical: the customer base they've already cultivated, rather than trying to compete directly with the Germans. And if they want to offer a halo vehicle. just choose one. end rant.

[RicerX]

And the one positive is that their lineup has not yet been de-balled by Nissan's disturbing obsession with CVT's.

I present to you 1/2 of Infiniti's clean-sheet new models that have debuted since 2009:


You guessed it, Bubba - there's a CVT in there. They're absolutely testing the waters and leaving no stone of potential garbage unturned.

For example, that Fisker lookalike concept looks sexy, but it aint gonna sell unless it's priced aggressively. The longer Infiniti stays on their current course, the tougher it'll be for them to compete.

This is the other thing that pissed me off about the Eau Rogue - conceptually, yeah - GT-R motor for illustration purposes. The Eau Rogue was meant to be Infiniti's M3, so when Johan speculated that it would be $100k, I wrote the entire idea off.

When you have ZERO offerings in the market, you can't debut a sedan that will cost $100k+ in the last of the following:

Cadillac CTS-V (even moreso now with the newest model cranking out 640hp and costing $80k or so)
BMW M3 (can be had for $80k - this car is the benchmark for EVERYTHING in this segment)
Lexus RCF (yes, Lexus is playing here, and its a fine car IMHO - starting in the high $60k range IIRC).

I have been a Nissan guy to the bitter end. My Z will always be my favorite of all time and I am planning on keeping it in the garage as long as I have room for it in life. Every Nissan (with a manual transmission) before this one I have regretted getting rid of - Sentra SE-R Spec V, Altima Coupe 3.5 6MT, my 40th Anniversary Z. The next round of vehicles for me and the wife are looking to be in the luxury arena (at least for the wife - I'm likely going to step into a Frontier next). It's getting harder and harder for me to stick close to Nissan/Infiniti.

I'll tell you this - I'm done with the CVT (the 2014 Rogue is the third one I have signed my name to, and the first with the QR25 - the first two were paired with a VQ). In a writeup I'm currently working, I'm going to talk about the first year and 20k miles in our 2014 Rogue, and here's a spoiler - the powertrain is currently the BEST PART of that car. Let that sink in for a bit. (Don't tell my wife)

Bottom line is this - we have seen a bit of thinning out in the performance vehicle market in recent years where the economy and industry have dictated a more practical and efficient approach to vehicle design. Now that things are on the upswing, you're seeing the automakers that truly had passion for exciting and high performing models in their lineups taking the cash and pushing out those exact cars. The remaining automakers have maintained their approach of designing appliances that transport humans from place to place, allowing those appliances to do as much thinking and driving for them as the technology will allow - Nissan/Infiniti is probably the prime example of one of these automakers. I would lump Toyota in with them if it weren't for what the guys at Lexus have been doing. Lincoln, however... their only saving grace is that they're owned by Ford... if that even counts. Same goes for Acura.

Meanwhile, companies like Cadillac are probably researching the enhancement of adhesives or how to integrate gravitational pull into the next evolution of tire technology so they can make a business case for the next generation CTS-V.

[RicerX]

If you're taking on the champ, you lay EVERYTHING on the table. Infiniti is so far from having the balls to do that it's genuinely hilarious.
If you can't take on the champ, you had better figure out how you're going to survive on your own merits. Infiniti doesn't even know what those mertis ARE, nevermind understanding how to put them to effective use.

Think about ANY other luxury brand on earth (even the posers) and you'll instantly come up with one or two words that define them relative to everyone else. Not for Infiniti. That's bad news for a luxury brand. How can you sell a luxury brand that has no image at all?

All of this.

[Ace2cool]

You guessed it, Bubba - there's a CVT in there. They're absolutely testing the waters and leaving no stone of potential garbage unturned.

What's more disturbing to me is the fact that in that *SUV* is a V6 as the "premium" powertrain option. And a sorely dated V6 at that. Even in the new model the QX60 or whatever. Still has the VQ35DE. The same engine that was designed in 2002. Sure, it won all kinds of awards 02-07, but the engine is old as dirt now.

[elwesso]

Infiniti's lineup is abysmal. I sat in the QX50, and it's literally the exact same car as my 07 G35 except with no manual trans and it sits higher. It even looks the same from the outside (I think it uses the same hood and headlights).

I think back in 2007-2009, the G35 coupe or sedan was a great competitor to the BMW 3 series. I don't think the Q50 is where the 3 series is overall but I've not driven both so it's hard to compare.

As much as I hate to say it, I'm pretty impressed with Lexus's lineup. They still have their "shades of gray boringmobiles", but they also have some pretty cool ones. My uncle has a GS-F sport, and while it's not really any faster than my G35, it's a very nice car inside and is pretty sporty. Overall their offering is pretty good. Heck, even jaguar offers a 2-door RWD V8 sports coupe with a manual trans (also expensive, but cool none the less).

Nissan/Infiniti literally makes nothing that's worth a damn. Even the new titan (which is cool) looks exactly like an F150 IMO.

[Ace2cool]

Oh, don't get me started on the Titan. I was pricing new trucks for S&G yesterday. The Titan is so far behind the times. I was pricing side-by-side with Ford and Chevy, and for what I really wanted, Ford blew the others out of the water. For all the options I wanted, Ford was cheaper and came with more features than the Titan. There were a lot of options that were just a check box for Ford and Chevy (basically customized to EXACTLY how the customer wanted it built, and I mean made-to-order) that the Titan didn't even offer. Get this: You can't get the premium package AND a bedliner. WHAT?!?!? That is something I would expect to come WITH the premium package. Not to mention, the Titan "builder" was no more than pick a trim, an option level, and a color. Took no more than 5 minutes, and didn't come with half the schite I wanted, all for a thousand bucks more. No options. Just a trim and option package. The Ford, I was busy for a good 15-20 minutes figuring out exactly what I wanted. Chevy was almost the same as well. There's no customization to any of Nissan's cars. If they don't make it exactly how you want it, tough luck.

And here's the kicker: I get a huge discount from Nissan for working at the factory, and I still would probably buy an F150 instead.

[Buzzman]

Infiniti's lineup is abysmal.
Nissan/Infiniti literally makes nothing that's worth a damn.

This thread is mostly about Infiniti, but the same negative feedback applies to Nissan's current offerings.
There isn't a Nissan product in the dealer show room that I would buy. None.
I love my 2002 Pathfinder, and am still happy with my 2006 Altima. I also had a 2003 Sentra Se-R, which I loved.
All have been reliable and trusty vehicles.
In my opinion, the Pathfinder died in 2005, the Altima in 2007, the Sentra in 2007.
They have just gotten worse over time.

I subscribe to Consumer Reports, and in the latest edition, they published owner satisfaction surveys.
The key question being: If you had it to do over again, would you buy the same vehicle?
The results are alarming:
Full size SUV, Pathfinder is last.
Mid size sedan, Altima is last.
Compact car, Sentra is last.
Subcompact car, Versa is last, and the Versa is also last for ALL vehicles.
The Titan and Armada are also at the bottom.
The Infiniti line up didn't fare much better.
There is not a single vehicle in the top half of owner satisfaction.

What else is there to say.

[Jookmasta]

Infiniti is due for a shakeup like what happened to Cadillac about 5-6 years ago. Not sure what it will take to bring about such change, but the whole line up needs to be wiped and re-done. Yes, the company and its line up was successful in the mid 2000s, but that was 10 years ago. You can't garner respect, reliability, or customers from doing nothing and still charging higher msrps every year. Eventually people will look somewhere else. Got 40K to spend on a car, why look at an Infiniti? This is the question that should be posed at the beginning of every engineering, budget, and marketing meeting this year. Sad part is, this question was probably brought up years ago and not a single high level executive could implement a proper answer that might've been said.